Series Thread: NBA Finals: Toronto Raptors vs Golden State Warriors

[bksballer89]

Hmmm I wonder if OG is going to be available at some point?

Nope seems unlikely

 

[Ojb81]

It feels like Groundhog Day. Read the same things in rounds two and three. Raps have no chance, got it. Time to get to work. Raps in six. GS has no idea what's coming for them. Perfect.

"right"

 

[tzill]

Ha ha! He's a tool from way back on the SF Giants board.

Cmon Nolan, be honest. It’s the board you’re BANNED FROM. Like the Disney Board before. It’s stunning you haven’t been banned from this one.

 

[tzill]

Kawhi's a decent shooter, but as a PG, it's Steph's job to be a facilitator. In terms of judging a player, Kawhi has near the offensive impact on a game that Steph as, along with a significant impact on the defensive end (which Steph doesn't). Kawhi just shut Giannis down to make the NBA Finals.

And in terms of leadership, you don't really know what type of leader Kawhi is.

1. If you don’t understand that Steph has impact on a defense never seen before in NBA history, I can’t help you.
2. The fact we don’t know what kind of leader Kawhi is tells you all you need to know about that. He’s never been spoken of as a leader. Not much negative talk about him either, but nothing postive. With Steph, there is ZERO doubt.

Again, Steph is in a different stratosphere. He’s changed the entire game.

 

[tzill]

Post #14.

Like @bksballer89 , I picked the Warriors in 7. Again, nice try.

Series Thread: - 2nd round: Houston Rockets vs Golden State Warriors

Huh. You caught Nolan in a lie. How weird.

 

[trojanfan12]

Bullshit. Curry has been irreplaceable. Leonard did not have the best player in the league go down with injury and have to take over himself.

Probably because he didn't have the luxury of waiting for someone to go down with injury.

 

[tzill]

I do not.

Even if offense were 80% and defense 20%,

Kawhi would still be better.

Because Curry isn't that much better offensively than Kawhi.

Or at least he has not been in the playoffs.

In fact, Kawhi has been better offensively than Curry has since the playoffs started.

You’re looking through too narrow a lens. It’s not Steph v. Kawhi. It’s Stephs effect on the game vs Kawhi’s. When Steph is out there, he opens up the game for every one of his teammates. The gravity of his presence leaves others wide open. Kawhi, as great as he is, doesn’t do that. He doesn’t completely change the game the way Steph’s game does.

 

[tzill]

Way more mature too

Pretty low bar....

 

[msgkings322]

A lot of folks are picking Warriors in 5, but are they even considering who has home court? Seems much more likely they win in 6, at home. Something like split in Toronto, take 3 and 4 at home, lose 5, win in 6

 

[bksballer89]

A lot of folks are picking Warriors in 5, but are they even considering who has home court? Seems much more likely they win in 6, at home. Something like split in Toronto, take 3 and 4 at home, lose 5, win in 6

warriors are 6-2 on the road in the playoffs

 

[msgkings322]

warriors are 6-2 on the road in the playoffs

I know, but Durant-less and what not. Feels like Ws in 6.

In 5 means they lose what, game 1 or 2 and that's it?

 

[True Lakers Fan]

1. If you don’t understand that Steph has impact on a defense never seen before in NBA history, I can’t help you.
2. The fact we don’t know what kind of leader Kawhi is tells you all you need to know about that. He’s never been spoken of as a leader. Not much negative talk about him either, but nothing postive. With Steph, there is ZERO doubt.

Again, Steph is in a different stratosphere. He’s changed the entire game.

I really love what Kawhi has done for the Raptors and if he is smart, he will sign with Toronto in free agency, but they cannot beat the Warriors

 

[msgkings322]

Right now Vegas has this game 1 as a pick 'em

 

[tlance]

You’re looking through too narrow a lens. It’s not Steph v. Kawhi. It’s Stephs effect on the game vs Kawhi’s. When Steph is out there, he opens up the game for every one of his teammates. The gravity of his presence leaves others wide open. Kawhi, as great as he is, doesn’t do that. He doesn’t completely change the game the way Steph’s game does.

I am not though.

I am one of the biggest Curry suppporters/fans on these boards. I think he is a great player and his impact on the game can't be overstated nor can it be fully explained by stats. He has also changed the way the game of basketball is played in a way that perhaps only 2 or 3 guys in NBA history have.

That all said, Kawhi is a better player than Steph Curry.

Because yes. Kawhi does have a similar gravitational pull. He can score efficiently at all 3 levels and while not quite as good as Steph offensively, his offensive impact in these playoffs has been equally profound. Kawhi is the Raptor offense. They run everything through him to a very similar degree to what the Warriors do with Steph.

Here are a few advanced stats from the playoffs:

Usage rate: Kawhi 33.1, Curry 28.7
PER: Kawhi: 28.5, Curry: 22.7
True Shooting: Kawhi: 62.3, Curry: 63
Offensive WS: Kawhi: 2.3, Curry: 2.0
WS: Kawhi: 3.7, Curry: 2.4
WS/48: Kawhi: .252, Curry: .195
OBPM: Kawhi: 7.6, Curry: 6.1
VORP: Kawhi: 1.9, Curry: 1.1
O rating: Kawhi: 118, Curry: 121
Assist/TO: Kawhi: 1.23, Curry: 1.80

Yeah, Curry has the edge in a couple places, especially Assist/TO because he is a better passer, but overall the advanced stats suggest that Kawhi has been even more impactful than Curry this postseason.

Intangibles matter, and Curry clearly has them is spades. But I have yet to see any evidence that Kawhi does not. He is a machine and a winner. When he has been healthy over the past few years, his team has represented as tough a challenge to GS as anyone and with arguably less surrounding talent than Harden had, or LeBron had in Cleveland pre- Kyrie trade. He definitely does not have as much surrounding talent as Curry does.

Despite what the stats show, I do believe Curry to be the more impactful offensive player. But not by much. Because Kawhi is damn good. And he might be the best defender in the league also.

Kawhi Leonard has been the best player in these playoffs.

 

[raptorlife4]

I really love what Kawhi has done for the Raptors and if he is smart, he will sign with Toronto in free agency, but they cannot beat the Warriors

Its going to be tough but we are here. And the games still need to be played.
They earned their spot in the finals and they will fight to the last buzzer.

This team is full of heart and grit. Hopefully they have enough to shock the NBA world

 

[Heatles84]

1. If you don’t understand that Steph has impact on a defense never seen before in NBA history, I can’t help you.
2. The fact we don’t know what kind of leader Kawhi is tells you all you need to know about that. He’s never been spoken of as a leader. Not much negative talk about him either, but nothing postive. With Steph, there is ZERO doubt.

Again, Steph is in a different stratosphere. He’s changed the entire game.

When you look back at Steph's career, we'll say he had the better career than Kawhi for the fact that he'll have more titles (team accomplishment) and that he changed the game to where the 3 was more prevalent in today's NBA as it was in the past.

Let's look at it this way. Kawhi doesn't get much face time on TV because he's an introvert. Having said that, the Raptors were always known for showing their ass when it came to the playoffs. In year 1 with Kawhi, he guided them to the Finals. With Steph, he's more open as he's an extrovert.

It's clear that we're in a disagreement on who the better player is. Yes, Steph changes the defensive game plan and is often times the focal point; but again, so is Kawhi. Steph's the slightly better offensive player because there's not many guys that can hit the 3 like he can (I think he's the best 3-point shooter of all-time). But Kawhi's defensive impact far exceeds what Steph delivers and that's what differentiates the two for me.

 

[Heatles84]

Its going to be tough but we are here. And the games still need to be played.
They earned their spot in the finals and they will fight to the last buzzer.

This team is full of heart and grit. Hopefully they have enough to shock the NBA world

I think Toronto will put up a challenging series to GS, but ultimately lose in 5 or 6. But if Kawhi hangs around Toronto, I can't see this current core not winning a title at some point. I think Toronto has done their part in showing Kawhi that there's stability and a potential title winning culture in there.

 

[DJ]

LOL! Somebody is triggered.

Nope. I'm just stating a fact that 4 people agreed with.

 

[DJ]

Kerr went to dinner with Pop to get intel on Leonard before the Finals.

 

[Wamu]

Never said he was. But he’s responsible for that whole AD cockup. And the retardation of a good young core. Dude is bad news. I’m glad it happened to the Lakers.

So you place no blame on the Lakers front office for the AD disaster? Sure LeBron & Klutch got it started. But the organization could have put a spot to it but didn't.