Series Thread: NBA Finals: Toronto Raptors vs Golden State Warriors

[msgkings322]

Klay questionable:
NBA Finals 2019: Warriors' Klay Thompson likely questionable for Game 3 after MRI confirms hamstring strain


Looney likely done:
Warriors' Looney likely out for Finals with fracture


KD:
???

yoga surfing = yesterday's news...today!

 

[Tai Chi≈Surfing]

yoga surfing = yesterday's news...today!

Don't be THAT guy.

Those links are only a few hours old, dude.

But yeah...most of what's being reported was pretty much a foregone conclusion.

 

[Wamu]

LOL. And didn't former Cavs owner Ted Stepien injure people in some ceremony when he dropped softballs from a building?

That wouldn't surprise me but I'm not sure. The only thing I remember about Stepien is he fired Chuck Daly.

 

[dtgold88]

Jackson also deserves credit....I am sure he had a lot of input but he rarely gets any credit.

"rarely gets credit"? Seriously?

sure, there are some like me who think he's a little bit of a fraud, but I think most give him undeserved credit.

 

[dtgold88]

Kerr built the culture that allowed the roster to reach its potential.

An average coach could not have done that.

Without Kerr there is a good chance the dynasty never forms. That they don't get to the Finals in 2015, they don't go 73-9 in 2016 and they never sign KD the following summer.

A better in game coach might have won them the '16 Finals.

But an inferior culture builder (literally every coach out there) might not have been able to get the core group to do what they did and get to the level where the in game coaching even matters.

I mean just about anybody here could have coached the 2017 Warriors to a title if they had the sense to get out of the way. But very few coaches can build what Kerr built.

Something to be said for this, but something also to be said for culture not mattering if not for the extremely talented players he has. I believe winning promotes a better culture. Not the other way around.

 

[dtgold88]

Imo, being able to manage ego's and build a winning culture is arguably the most important part of an NBA coaches job.

By the time they get to the NBA, these guys already know how to play and for the most part, just need some tweaks and experience.

But what they often don't know how to do are things like playing well with others, sacrificing for the good of the team, sharing the spotlight, etc.

Coaches like Phil and Kerr understand that and focus their attention on that. It doesn't matter how good a coaches system is, or how well he coaches in game...if he can't get the players to buy in and get along, he's not going to be winning much.

He's also not going to win as much when he does not have a roster littered with all stars and/or HOFers.

Think the Knicks would have been much better if Phil came back down to the bench to coach them?

 

[dtgold88]

Depends on the coach. Another good coach probably could have. A bad one would have fucked up one or two of them.

Wasn't walton something like 29-4 when he was in charge? That team would have been difficult to fuck up.

 

[dtgold88]

KD is coming back likely after both of those guys do.

I agree. The idea they knew well in advance of Game 1 he was out leads me to believe he's done for the year.

Lucky for them OG was out to even it up. Different story if Klay and Looney are both gone (seems Looney is).

 

[dtgold88]

LOL. And didn't former Cavs owner Ted Stepien injure people in some ceremony when he dropped softballs from a building?

I do remember the stunt. Can't recall if anyone was hurt or not.

 

[dtgold88]

Oops, wrong on one of them. Looney actually fractured the bone so he is pretty much done.

Man, the basketball gods are evening out a lot of luck this run.

Not the "run". .....Just this year as both Durant and OG missed games 1 and 2. Looks like a draw to me.

 

[dtgold88]

Or Mark Jackson? So let me get this straight, the guy who took over the team, went from a 1st round exit to NBA champs and +16 regular season wins has nothing to do with all of this? That's nonsense. This is the 5th year with the core. Of course it's less work. That's not the point. He engineered the system where people can say crap like this 5 years later.

If you can find a post where I said nothing to do with it that'd be great. I think losing Love and Kyrie might have helped him win the title that year. Next year at more even strength he went down to Ty Lue, who no one thinks is a very good coach.

 

[dtgold88]

That wouldn't surprise me but I'm not sure. The only thing I remember about Stepien is he fired Chuck Daly.

Did have a rule named after him that is still used today.

 

[Wamu]

Did have a rule named after him that is still used today.

Didn't realize that. All I remember from the Stepien era is he was a lousy owner.

 

[dtgold88]

Didn't realize that. All I remember from the Stepien era is he was a lousy owner.

Yep....the rule you cannot trade 1st round picks in consecutive years is known as The Stepien Rule, as Stepien traded in a ton of Cavs' 1st rounders for less than stellar players. Off the top of my head I think they received Richard Washington, Jerome Whitehead and Mike Braatz. I believe the picks acquired for those guys were used on Worthy, Perkins and Tarpley.

Oops.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Ty Lue, who no one thinks is a very good coach.

Except for Lebron.

 

[10HtownRebs]

WOW.. Golden State is favored by 5 1/2

Refs must be planning "the take over" on the Raptors ass...

I may go broke on this game...

Anybody know where I can buy an authentic referee jersey?? I'd love to get my hands on that 45 jersey... These guys are the stars of the game!!

 

[CitySushi]

All this talk about Kerr creating the culture for the Warriors is completely incorrect. Kerr did not create the culture. I'm sorry, but that's just not the case. There are actually two people who created the culture: Stephen Curry and Andre Iguodala.

Those two players are responsible for creating the culture of sacrifice for the greater good. Yes it was at Kerr's suggestion, but if those two players don't buy in, the Warriors, at least this version, are never created.

Steph had the ball in his hands a ton when he played under Jackson. He was utilized more in the pick and roll and he had pretty much supreme authority to do whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted. When Kerr came on board, he told Steph he wanted him to play off the ball more. Also he limited the amount of pick and rolls Curry was involved in and was emphasizing more ball movement. It was a complete 180 in his game from the 13-14 season. How many NBA players could you tell them you wanted to change almost everything about the way they play and expect them to be happy about it?

Lastly, Andre was one of the biggest guys who set the tone for the culture. Kerr's first move was to approach Iguodala and tell him that he wanted him to come off the bench. At that point Iguodala was a past all-star, one of the best NBA defenders and a career starter. Andre had to accept this was for the greater good and he did so without complaint. If a guy with Iguodala's respect level was willing to take a backseat in his role, as established as he was, then who else in their right mind could complain? No one.

Here's my take on things:

1) Mark Jackson should be credited with allowing Steph and Klay to flourish, make mistakes and grow into the players they are today. He should also get credit for holding them accountable on defense and establishing that defense is a priority. He should get no more or no less credit than that.

2) Steve Kerr took the team to a whole new level, because of his vision of the team. He came in, changed the entire offense which was predicated around player and ball movement. Kerr himself also has no ego and allows his assistant coaches to give their input, which he often implements. He fully utilizes every tool at his disposal. That's what Kerr is great at. He's also really good at pre and post game adjustments, however like many have said his in-game adjustments are average at best. But mostly what he does is he empowers the players. His relationship with them, the front office, the owner, coaching staff is arguably the best in the business.

 

[tzill]

Give it a rest. Everyone here is well familiar with Monty now. We've pretty much all won bets against him by him picking the opposition every time against the Warriors. He has his own "Bitch about the Warriors" Thread, completed with a yearly edition. Posting number counts just adds clutter around here.

fair enough. 15 chances are enough. I'll put him on mute

 

[shopson67]

All this talk about Kerr creating the culture for the Warriors is completely incorrect. Kerr did not create the culture. I'm sorry, but that's just not the case. There are actually two people who created the culture: Stephen Curry and Andre Iguodala.

Those two players are responsible for creating the culture of sacrifice for the greater good. Yes it was at Kerr's suggestion, but if those two players don't buy in, the Warriors, at least this version, are never created.

Steph had the ball in his hands a ton when he played under Jackson. He was utilized more in the pick and roll and he had pretty much supreme authority to do whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted. When Kerr came on board, he told Steph he wanted him to play off the ball more. Also he limited the amount of pick and rolls Curry was involved in and was emphasizing more ball movement. It was a complete 180 in his game from the 13-14 season. How many NBA players could you tell them you wanted to change almost everything about the way they play and expect them to be happy about it?

Lastly, Andre was one of the biggest guys who set the tone for the culture. Kerr's first move was to approach Iguodala and tell him that he wanted him to come off the bench. At that point Iguodala was a past all-star, one of the best NBA defenders and a career starter. Andre had to accept this was for the greater good and he did so without complaint. If a guy with Iguodala's respect level was willing to take a backseat in his role, as established as he was, then who else in their right mind could complain? No one.

Here's my take on things:

1) Mark Jackson should be credited with allowing Steph and Klay to flourish, make mistakes and grow into the players they are today. He should also get credit for holding them accountable on defense and establishing that defense is a priority. He should get no more or no less credit than that.

2) Steve Kerr took the team to a whole new level, because of his vision of the team. He came in, changed the entire offense which was predicated around player and ball movement. Kerr himself also has no ego and allows his assistant coaches to give their input, which he often implements. He fully utilizes every tool at his disposal. That's what Kerr is great at. He's also really good at pre and post game adjustments, however like many have said his in-game adjustments are average at best. But mostly what he does is he empowers the players. His relationship with them, the front office, the owner, coaching staff is arguably the best in the business.

Exactly. He may have set up the culture for the team, but Kerr took that (and two sixth seed early exits) and turned them into a championship team with the only important addition that season being Livingston (other than Kerr of course).

 

[CitySushi]

All this talk about Kerr creating the culture for the Warriors is completely incorrect. Kerr did not create the culture. I'm sorry, but that's just not the case. There are actually two people who created the culture: Stephen Curry and Andre Iguodala.

Those two players are responsible for creating the culture of sacrifice for the greater good. Yes it was at Kerr's suggestion, but if those two players don't buy in, the Warriors, at least this version, are never created.

Steph had the ball in his hands a ton when he played under Jackson. He was utilized more in the pick and roll and he had pretty much supreme authority to do whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted. When Kerr came on board, he told Steph he wanted him to play off the ball more. Also he limited the amount of pick and rolls Curry was involved in and was emphasizing more ball movement. It was a complete 180 in his game from the 13-14 season. How many NBA players could you tell them you wanted to change almost everything about the way they play and expect them to be happy about it?

Lastly, Andre was one of the biggest guys who set the tone for the culture. Kerr's first move was to approach Iguodala and tell him that he wanted him to come off the bench. At that point Iguodala was a past all-star, one of the best NBA defenders and a career starter. Andre had to accept this was for the greater good and he did so without complaint. If a guy with Iguodala's respect level was willing to take a backseat in his role, as established as he was, then who else in their right mind could complain? No one.

Here's my take on things:

1) Mark Jackson should be credited with allowing Steph and Klay to flourish, make mistakes and grow into the players they are today. He should also get credit for holding them accountable on defense and establishing that defense is a priority. He should get no more or no less credit than that.

2) Steve Kerr took the team to a whole new level, because of his vision of the team. He came in, changed the entire offense which was predicated around player and ball movement. Kerr himself also has no ego and allows his assistant coaches to give their input, which he often implements. He fully utilizes every tool at his disposal. That's what Kerr is great at. He's also really good at pre and post game adjustments, however like many have said his in-game adjustments are average at best. But mostly what he does is he empowers the players. His relationship with them, the front office, the owner, coaching staff is arguably the best in the business.

@10HtownRebs you disagree?