Series Thread: NBA Finals: Toronto Raptors vs Golden State Warriors

[dtgold88]

Depends. He certainly wasn't great at the X's and O's. His offensive system wasn't even his.

But, I don't think there's been a coach who was better at managing ego's (especially of mega stars like MJ, Shaq and Kobe) and getting them to buy in.

Doug Collins was a good coach, but could only get the Bulls so far. Del Harris was a good coach, but could only get the Shaq/Kobe Lakers so far.

Phil steps in and they start winning rings. I doubt MJ, Shaq or Kobe have as many rings as they do without Phil.

He can manage egos, agreed. But didn't they lose Shaq because they could not get Shaq and Kobe to play together?

Did he win titles when MJ left? How about when shaq left before they acquired Pau? If he had stones he'd have taken over as coach of the Knicks.

 

[dtgold88]

Other than Larry Brown name a coach that didn't need superstars to win rings
This is why Brown is GOAT by the way, along with winning both a college and pro championship

Have said here many times he's my choice as he does more with less better than any coach I can think of.

 

[dtgold88]

1979. Lenny Wilkens & the SuperSonics. Technically HOFer & Finals MVP Dennis Johnson wasn't a superstar.

I think that's a good one. Gus Williams and Sikma the other top players off top of my head. Also not superstars.

So seems like every 30 years or so?

 

[trojanfan12]

He can manage egos, agreed. But didn't they lose Shaq because they could not get Shaq and Kobe to play together?

No, they lost Shaq over money. Dr. Buss only wanted to give one max deal and he gave it to Kobe who was younger and a much harder worker than Shaq.

Contract negotiations were getting kind of tense and during a pre-season game that Dr. Buss attended, Shaq made a dunk and then screamed "You gonna pay me now?" at Dr. Buss. That was pretty much the end of Shaq as a Laker.

In the years since he retired, Shaq has said that him leaving was over money, not Kobe and that he should have listened to Kobe re: working out in the off-season and staying in shape.

Funny thing is, if Shaq had not yelled at Dr. Buss publicly like he did, Dr. Buss would very likely have ended up paying him. Especially if the Lakers made another deep playoff run and/or won another title.

Don't get me wrong, the Shaq/Kobe "feud" was real, but it wasn't anything that would have prevented them from playing together.

 

[dtgold88]

No, they lost Shaq over money. Dr. Buss only wanted to give one max deal and he gave it to Kobe who was younger and a much harder worker than Shaq.

Contract negotiations were getting kind of tense and during a pre-season game that Dr. Buss attended, Shaq made a dunk and then screamed "You gonna pay me now?" at Dr. Buss. That was pretty much the end of Shaq as a Laker.

In the years since he retired, Shaq has said that him leaving was over money, not Kobe and that he should have listened to Kobe re: working out in the off-season and staying in shape.

Funny thing is, if Shaq had not yelled at Dr. Buss publicly like he did, Dr. Buss would very likely have ended up paying him. Especially if the Lakers made another deep playoff run and/or won another title.

Don't get me wrong, the Shaq/Kobe "feud" was real, but it wasn't anything that would have prevented them from playing together.

Fair enough......but Phillip did not win without him until they got Pau.

I think Phillip pulls a Riley and coaches the Knicks himself if they were a top team.....of course likely Riley stays in the shadows if Miami was not a title contender back then.

 

[Heatles84]

No, they lost Shaq over money. Dr. Buss only wanted to give one max deal and he gave it to Kobe who was younger and a much harder worker than Shaq.

Contract negotiations were getting kind of tense and during a pre-season game that Dr. Buss attended, Shaq made a dunk and then screamed "You gonna pay me now?" at Dr. Buss. That was pretty much the end of Shaq as a Laker.

In the years since he retired, Shaq has said that him leaving was over money, not Kobe and that he should have listened to Kobe re: working out in the off-season and staying in shape.

Funny thing is, if Shaq had not yelled at Dr. Buss publicly like he did, Dr. Buss would very likely have ended up paying him. Especially if the Lakers made another deep playoff run and/or won another title.

Don't get me wrong, the Shaq/Kobe "feud" was real, but it wasn't anything that would have prevented them from playing together.

I stand by the notion that if Shaq had Kobe's work ethic and cared about his body, he would've been the GOAT.

 

[CitySushi]

I stand by the notion that if Shaq had Kobe's work ethic and cared about his body, he would've been the GOAT.

Without question. Even with his questionable work ethic, he's arguably the single most dominant NBA player I've ever seen, including Jordan. And on top of that he played against a top tier era of Centers and still did damage.

 

[Ojb81]

Oh, I see. So those comments were concern trollers.

I thought so. Thanks for confirming.

"concern trollers"

 

[Wamu]

Including Larry Brown in a comparison to Phillip? Brown looks for challenges. Almost seems when things get rolling he gets out. Phillip wants ready made title teams.

All NBA coaches are overrated. But I don't believe that.

 

[CitySushi]

Last night's win was probably one of the most impressive win's I've seen this team have in their championship window. It was the grittiest performance with guys stepping up when their number was called. We've seen that role players generally play better at home, so it was asking a lot of these role players to expand upon what they needed to do based on the injuries that happened throughout the game.

Andre Iguodala only plays from April - June, but he's worth every penny of his 16M, if not more. I'm not the biggest Quinn Cook fan and ultimately would prefer the Warriors upgrade that position, but I can't deny he was fantastic yesterday. McKinnie hit a big 3 at one point in the game. I felt like the Warriors even after that big run, just hit timely shots to keep the Raptors at bay when they made runs to close the gap.

And I don't want to hear another word about people shitting on Steph. Dude was pulling TWO defenders every time down the court, 40 feet from the basket. That's ridiculous. Even Jordan never got that attention that far out. The gravity of what he does, the impact he has on the game is one of the top 3 all time. Your favorite NBA superstar ever have a box and 1 played against him? In the NBA Finals?

 

[CitySushi]

It was not just transition.

Raptors were getting shots without a GS defender within 10 feet in the first half.

I don't care who the shooter is, you can't give away that much space. Players failed to make second efforts to rotate out, instead just letting Siakam, Gasol, Etc have the easy shot. That won't cut it.

I am not saying to leave Kawhi's defender on an island with no help, but I do think the way to beat Toronto is the exact opposite of the stategy being deployed.

Don't let the others gain confidence by leaving for them open. Make them work for theirs and see how many contested midrange shots Kawhi can make.

I didn't say it was just transition. I said there were numerous other things that went wrong, but transition defense was a priority.

The transition defense, doesn't just lead to easy breakaway buckets. It causes other mismatches on the offense that the Raptors were able to take advantage of in game 1. The defense was scattered, and because they weren't able to set up properly on defense, their rotations were additionally affected.

Transition defense wasn't the sole problem, but it was a large one.

 

[Heatles84]

Last night's win was probably one of the most impressive win's I've seen this team have in their championship window. It was the grittiest performance with guys stepping up when their number was called. We've seen that role players generally play better at home, so it was asking a lot of these role players to expand upon what they needed to do based on the injuries that happened throughout the game.

Andre Iguodala only plays from April - June, but he's worth every penny of his 16M, if not more. I'm not the biggest Quinn Cook fan and ultimately would prefer the Warriors upgrade that position, but I can't deny he was fantastic yesterday. McKinnie hit a big 3 at one point in the game. I felt like the Warriors even after that big run, just hit timely shots to keep the Raptors at bay when they made runs to close the gap.

And I don't want to hear another word about people shitting on Steph. Dude was pulling TWO defenders every time down the court, 40 feet from the basket. That's ridiculous. Even Jordan never got that attention that far out. The gravity of what he does, the impact he has on the game is one of the top 3 all time. Your favorite NBA superstar ever have a box and 1 played against him? In the NBA Finals?

I actually like Quinn Cook. I think for a backup guard, he's definitely effective.

 

[dtgold88]

All NBA coaches are overrated. But I don't believe that.

All seems a stretch but get what you're saying.......give most talent and they can win, don't and they wont.

 

[Heatles84]

Without question. Even with his questionable work ethic, he's arguably the single most dominant NBA player I've ever seen, including Jordan. And on top of that he played against a top tier era of Centers and still did damage.

Speaking of which....that stat line.

 

[Wamu]

I think that's a good one. Gus Williams and Sikma the other top players off top of my head. Also not superstars.

So seems like every 30 years or so?

Had to look this info up but in '79 Sikma was in his 2nd year & earned the 1st of his 7 consecutive all star appearances. And Williams was a 2x A.S. but not until '82. Wasn't the '79 Finals on tape delay? Thought I had heard that.

 

[CitySushi]

I actually like Quinn Cook. I think for a backup guard, he's definitely effective.

He's really good shooting the ball, there's no question. But he's often hot and cold with how he plays. Defensively, he's pretty bad. So if he's not scoring, most nights I feel he's a net negative out there.

 

[Heatles84]

He's really good shooting the ball, there's no question. But he's often hot and cold with how he plays. Defensively, he's pretty bad. So if he's not scoring, most nights I feel he's a net negative out there.

Fair enough. You know your team better than I do. From what I've seen, he always seems to make plays. But I haven't really paid attention to his defense.

 

[dtgold88]

Had to look this info up but in '79 Sikma was in his 2nd year & earned the 1st of his 7 consecutive all star appearances. And Williams was a 2x A.S. but not until '82. Wasn't the '79 Finals on tape delay? Thought I had heard that.

I'm pretty sure it was. I know there were some early 80s Finals that were on tape delay.

Though I think they still played day games on Sunday in the Finals so only the night games were delayed.

 

[1phlapdown]

I wouldn't say the performance of his life. He put up games like that frequently in the regular season/playoffs but as I said before, they need a balanced attack to beat GSW or they need Siakam/Kawhi to dominate with not a lot of help from the other 3

He had 14 makes with 3 misses. You're saying he does this on a regular basis?

 

[Wamu]

All seems a stretch but get what you're saying.......give most talent and they can win, don't and they wont.

It's not a fluke that throughout leage history coaches w/ the most talent have the best results. Shit I could be a good NBA coach if I have Steph, Klay, KD & Dray. How could you fuck that up? In the huddle all I gotta say is go out there & do what you do.