My Top 25 Current NBA Players

[CitySushi]

Or maybe it's because most of your post was rambling mumbo-jumbo...I'm just curious of what you @tlance actually expect out of Westbrook.

If you're expecting him to be Jason Kidd where his first three options are pass, pass, and pass - It's probably not realistic. It's the EXACT argument I had made during our mock draft involvement in early 2016, and it's that you need to have somewhat a scorer at the PG position to keep defenses honest.

The closest thing we have to a modern-day Jason Kidd is Ricky Rubio, and he's never even been to the playoffs.

And for a sidenote, I even saw the roster flaws of the 2016 Thunder at the time and had practically called their demise even at the time of their 3-1 lead in those WCF's - I'd like to see OKC take down GS, but...

So let's not pretend it's some abnormality on the part of Westbrook the individual that no one saw coming...

Rambling mumbo-jumbo = I cannot refute what he's saying so I pretend he didn't say it. Gotcha.

See that's just the thing. I have no expectation of what Westbrook should be. He's a fantastic player and one of the top 6 players in the NBA.

What I have said repeatedly is that if given the chance to start a team, he would not be my ideal guy for a PG. And that's just me. Feel free to disagree. I'm not here to change your opinion on him, only to shed light on your blind spots for the guy.

The biggest issue for me with Westbrook is his decision making. I don't believe he's an efficient player, at all. I think he's got all the talent in the world and that's probably what makes it even more difficult for him to make good decisions because he's so damn talented and freakishly athletic.

It's not that he's not a pass first point guard. It's the fact that he makes so many poor choices, shot selection choices, etc, throughout the game that I find him flawed.

 

[CitySushi]

@CitySushi @tlance Either of you remember the time during Durant's Thunder days when LeBron was jealous of KD's frequent shot attempts???
Good being king? LeBron 'jealous' of Durant
That must be quite the damper on your Westbrook ballhog theory, wouldn't you say? If a player that some consider to be the GOAT in envious of the amount of shot attempts for one of Russ' teammates...

Again, it's not the volume, it's the selection of which shots he's taking. Russ is a really bad 3 point shooter by percentage in his career, so when you see him do those pull up random 3's, that's a bad shot. Vice versa, you had a great shooter in KD and when driving instead of taking a forced layup, kicking it out to a better shooter would have been the preferable option.

You're failing to see the distinction between shot volume and shot selection. If Russ's shots were all great, there'd be absolutely no problem with his shot volume. As such his FG percentage is reflective of that shot selection.

 

[CitySushi]

@HurricaneDij39

Also you're the one who's turned this into a bash session of Westbrook with your inability to gauge the difference in comparing elite players to elite player and elite players to role player, by your cherry picking of stats. If you were just a little reasonable, there would literally be no discussion on Westbrook or his lack of efficiency.

This all stemmed because you couldn't grasp such a simple thing as when you compare elite players to another elite players, the small differences matter. When you're comparing an elite player to a non-elite player, the little things matter less.

 

[WiggyRuss]

@HurricaneDij39

Also you're the one who's turned this into a bash session of Westbrook with your inability to gauge the difference in comparing elite players to elite player and elite players to role player, by your cherry picking of stats. If you were just a little reasonable, there would literally be no discussion on Westbrook or his lack of efficiency.

This all stemmed because you couldn't grasp such a simple thing as when you compare elite players to another elite players, the small differences matter. When you're comparing an elite player to a non-elite player, the little things matter less.

i dunno what the deal is here--- but its a perfectly reasonable argument to have RW as the 2nd best player in basketball.

 

[CitySushi]

i dunno what the deal is here--- but its a perfectly reasonable argument to have RW as the 2nd best player in basketball.

Absolutely. I had no argument with the list if you look at my prior posts. When people pointed out they had Kawhi ahead and put perfectly sound logic and reasoning behind it, Hurricane went batshit crazy and started doing Lebron to CJ Miles comparisons. That's where I started to take issue with his cherry picking of comparisons.

 

[Black Adam]

i dunno what the deal is here--- but its a perfectly reasonable argument to have RW as the 2nd best player in basketball.

o.k....

1) KD

2) RW

that was easy...

 

[WiggyRuss]

Tier 1
1. LeBron James

Tier 2
2. RW
3. Durant
4. Kawhi
5. Harden
6. Curry
7. Cp3

Tier 3
8. Giannis
9. Davis
10. Towns
11. George
12. Butler
13. Draymond
14. Wall

Tier 4
15. Irving
16. Klay
17. Lowry
18. Gasol
19. Cousins
20. Embiid
21. Gobert
22. DeRozan
23. Hayward

Tier 5
24. Lillard
25. Love
26. Jokic
27. IT
28. Porzingis
29. Jordan
30. Conley
31. Kemba
32. Aldridge
33. Barnes
34. Booker

 

[CitySushi]

Tier 1
1. LeBron James

Tier 2
2. RW
3. Durant
4. Kawhi
5. Harden
6. Curry
7. Cp3

Tier 3
8. Giannis
9. Davis
10. Towns
11. George
12. Butler
13. Draymond
14. Wall

Tier 4
15. Irving
16. Klay
17. Lowry
18. Gasol
19. Cousins
20. Embiid
21. Gobert
22. DeRozan
23. Hayward

Tier 5
24. Lillard
25. Love
26. Jokic
27. IT
28. Porzingis
29. Jordan
30. Conley
31. Kemba
32. Aldridge
33. Barnes
34. Booker

I think KD and Kawhi should be bumped up to tier 1 and CP3 moved down to tier 3. Draymond, should be moved to tier 4 and I might bump up Cousins, to tier 3 based on talent.

Tier 4 I would probably switch Lillard for Hayward and bump IT up to tier 4.

 

[CitySushi]

Tier 1
1. LeBron James

Tier 2
2. RW
3. Durant
4. Kawhi
5. Harden
6. Curry
7. Cp3

Tier 3
8. Giannis
9. Davis
10. Towns
11. George
12. Butler
13. Draymond
14. Wall

Tier 4
15. Irving
16. Klay
17. Lowry
18. Gasol
19. Cousins
20. Embiid
21. Gobert
22. DeRozan
23. Hayward

Tier 5
24. Lillard
25. Love
26. Jokic
27. IT
28. Porzingis
29. Jordan
30. Conley
31. Kemba
32. Aldridge
33. Barnes
34. Booker

Also, I'm sure you did this on the fly, which is commendable, but where would CJ McCollum, Khris Middleton, Bradley Beal and Blake Griffin fall on your rankings? I totally missed it but if you have Barnes at 33, that's insane imo, lol.

 

[tlance]

@CitySushi @tlance Either of you remember the time during Durant's Thunder days when LeBron was jealous of KD's frequent shot attempts???
Good being king? LeBron 'jealous' of Durant
That must be quite the damper on your Westbrook ballhog theory, wouldn't you say? If a player that some consider to be the GOAT in envious of the amount of shot attempts for one of Russ' teammates...

Does nothing for of the sort.

First off, KD is a primary scorer. LeBron is not. He is a facilitator who is also an extremely good scorer. If KD and LeBron were on the same team, KD would definitely get more shot attempts. That is his job.

Also, this comment is based on LeBron's perception that simply isn't true. KD only twice averages more than 20 attempts per game and just barely. For his career, KD averages 18.9 FGA per game. LeBron averages 19.6.

So way to cherry pick a player comment that doesn't even represent the truth.

If Westbrook had realized what anybody with a brain knows, he would see that KD is one of the best pure scorers of all time and that he needed significantly more attempts than Russ did. Russ never got that, so KD moved on to a team where the co-stars are a lot more unselfish.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Also, I'm sure you did this on the fly, which is commendable, but where would CJ McCollum, Khris Middleton, Bradley Beal and Blake Griffin fall on your rankings? I totally missed it but if you have Barnes at 33, that's insane imo, lol.

you are correct- kind of did do i nthe on the fly--- griffin was on my list- but i went to drop him and forgot to put him back on.

middleton is an itnresting question due to not really being around much lately....beale and mccollumare def. arguable

 

[WiggyRuss]

I think KD and Kawhi should be bumped up to tier 1 and CP3 moved down to tier 3. Draymond, should be moved to tier 4 and I might bump up Cousins, to tier 3 based on talent.

Tier 4 I would probably switch Lillard for Hayward and bump IT up to tier 4.

i think i agree with all of those except bumping up Kawhi.


id rather have hayward than lillard too- but if u wanted to bump up lillard a tier i could see it

 

[WiggyRuss]

Tier 1

@TurnUpTheHeat

here ya go

i made a couple alterations off my first list- as i got home and was able to look at it a little bit (and add in Griffin who i had higher on my first list- deleted off and forgot to put back on)--- you asmed me for a top 25-- heres a little extra

Tier 1 "The King" Division
1. LeBron James

Tier 2 True Franchise Player Division
2. RW
3. Durant
4. Kawhi
5. Curry
6. Harden

Tier 3 High Level All stars that are franchise players- just not the best
7. Cp3
8. Giannis
9. Wall
10. Davos
11. Towns
12. George
13. Butler

Tier 4 Yearly All Star Level talents
14. Draymond
15. Irving
16. Klay
17. Cousins
18. Gasol
19. Griffin
20. Lowry
21. Embiid
22. Gobert
23. DeRozan
24. Hayward
25. Lillard
26. IT

Tier 5 Sometime All Stars, talented up and comers- Guys that would be #3, maybe #2 in a "Big 3"

27. Love
28. Jokic
29. Porzingis
30. Jordan
31. Conley
32. Kemba
33. Aldridge
34. McCollum
35. Horford
36. Milsap
37. Beal

Tier 6 Guys who are usually right below that all star level or need more development to become All star level

38. Bradley
39. Middleton
40. Bledsoe
41. Dragic
42, Booker
42. Otto Porter Jr.
43. A. Wiggins
44. Barnes
45. Oladipo
46. M. Turner

Tier 7 Great Role Players, Former Stars You still gotta respect, Unreached Potential

47. H. Whiteside
48. D. Schroeder
48. E. Gordon
49. D. Howard
50. Carmelo
51. D. Wade
52. A. Drummond
53. S. Adams
54. N. Noel
56. N. Vucevic
57. Z. Lavine
58. J. Crowder
59. D. Nowitski
60. J. Redick
61. B. Simmons
62. D. Schroeder
63. J. Holliday
64. J. Teague
65. R. Rubio
66. C. Capela
67. J. Parker
68. D. Gallinari
69. P. Beverly
70. G. Hill
71. D. Waiters
72. D. Favors
73. M. Fultz
74. JR Smith
75. T. Thompson

(didnt want to rank so many, but wanted to finish the tier)

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

@TurnUpTheHeat

here ya go

i made a couple alterations off my first list
- as i got home and was able to look at it a little bit (and add in Griffin who i had higher on my first list- deleted off and forgot to put back on)--- you asmed me for a top 25-- heres a little extra

Tier 1 "The King" Division
1. LeBron James

Tier 2 True Franchise Player Division
2. RW
3. Durant
4. Kawhi
5. Curry
6. Harden

Tier 3 High Level All stars that are franchise players- just not the best
7. Cp3
8. Giannis
9. Wall
10. Davos
11. Towns
12. George
13. Butler

Tier 4 Yearly All Star Level talents
14. Draymond
15. Irving
16. Klay
17. Cousins
18. Gasol
19. Griffin
20. Lowry
21. Embiid
22. Gobert
23. DeRozan
24. Hayward
25. Lillard
26. IT

Tier 5 Sometime All Stars, talented up and comers- Guys that would be #3, maybe #2 in a "Big 3"

27. Love
28. Jokic
29. Porzingis
30. Jordan
31. Conley
32. Kemba
33. Aldridge
34. McCollum
35. Horford
36. Milsap
37. Beal

Tier 6 Guys who are usually right below that all star level or need more development to become All star level

38. Bradley
39. Middleton
40. Bledsoe
41. Dragic
42, Booker
42. Otto Porter Jr.
43. A. Wiggins
44. Barnes
45. Oladipo
46. M. Turner

Tier 7 Great Role Players, Former Stars You still gotta respect, Unreached Potential

47. H. Whiteside
48. D. Schroeder
48. E. Gordon
49. D. Howard
50. Carmelo
51. D. Wade
52. A. Drummond
53. S. Adams
54. N. Noel
56. N. Vucevic
57. Z. Lavine
58. J. Crowder
59. D. Nowitski
60. J. Redick
61. B. Simmons
62. D. Schroeder
63. J. Holliday
64. J. Teague
65. R. Rubio
66. C. Capela
67. J. Parker
68. D. Gallinari
69. P. Beverly
70. G. Hill
71. D. Waiters
72. D. Favors
73. M. Fultz
74. JR Smith
75. T. Thompson

(didnt want to rank so many, but wanted to finish the tier)

I understand opinion means just that, but IMO ( just a few) clear cut:

Durant should be #2.
Klay > Kyrie
CP3 should be lower.
Several other mix and match, and of course, you're laughably totally butt hurt with Whiteside at 47.
At least you finally put him above Drummond.
In general it's well thought out.

 

[trojanfan12]

That must be quite the damper on your Westbrook ballhog theory, wouldn't you say? If a player that some consider to be the GOAT in envious of the amount of shot attempts for one of Russ' teammates...

Not even a little bit. The issue with Westbtrook has never been that he's always a ball hog. It's always been when he chooses to be a ball hog/go iso.

Did you watch the GSW/Thunder series? In every game the Thunder lost, they followed the same script. In the 4th quarter, Westbrook would forget that he had arguably the 2nd best player in the world on his team and would start making out of control drives to the hoop and jacking up crazy 3's.

If he played the entire game the way he played the 1st 3 quarters, the Thunder would have been in the finals.

 

[Black Adam]

Not even a little bit. The issue with Westbtrook has never been that he's always a ball hog. It's always been when he chooses to be a ball hog/go iso.

Did you watch the GSW/Thunder series? In every game the Thunder lost, they followed the same script. In the 4th quarter, Westbrook would forget that he had arguably the 2nd best player in the world on his team and would start making out of control drives to the hoop and jacking up crazy 3's.

If he played the entire game the way he played the 1st 3 quarters, the Thunder would have been in the finals.

guess he's never seen Westbrick go into hero ball mode...