My Thoughts on a Kirk Extension

[j_y19]

where I come from, Meh means I'm not really sold on him. And while you always qualify your statements, your tone is of one that doesn't like him. Just like the 17M statement.....let him walk. So clearly you think we can do better with a colt mccoy or a scrap pile QB or even an unproven rookie. If $17M is the amount that starting QBs are paid, and you deem him your starting QB for the foreseeable future (2-4 years) then you don't lowball him. You pay him and work on building up the other parts of your team that aren't meh. Because if every time you want to bet the farm to land a Tom Brady, you will soon be the Cleveland Browns. Folks need to get through their heads that a Tom Brady or aaron rogers, or their ilk, comes around once every 5-7 years (maybe more). In fact, most teams have a mediocre QB and the successful ones have devoted their resources building a strong supporting cast, not chasing after the golden calf. Just look up the street to Baltimore. Flacco is not a great QB, but he is a good manager of a team that had a shutdown defense and a strong running attack so he didn't have to win it all by himself.

KC had put up pretty good numbers without a strong defense or any running attack to speak of. I don't know that most are aware of how hard that is, especially in his first year as starter.

 

[ehb5]

where I come from, Meh means I'm not really sold on him. And while you always qualify your statements, your tone is of one that doesn't like him. Just like the 17M statement.....let him walk. So clearly you think we can do better with a colt mccoy or a scrap pile QB or even an unproven rookie. If $17M is the amount that starting QBs are paid, and you deem him your starting QB for the foreseeable future (2-4 years) then you don't lowball him. You pay him and work on building up the other parts of your team that aren't meh. Because if every time you want to bet the farm to land a Tom Brady, you will soon be the Cleveland Browns. Folks need to get through their heads that a Tom Brady or aaron rogers, or their ilk, comes around once every 5-7 years (maybe more). In fact, most teams have a mediocre QB and the successful ones have devoted their resources building a strong supporting cast, not chasing after the golden calf. Just look up the street to Baltimore. Flacco is not a great QB, but he is a good manager of a team that had a shutdown defense and a strong running attack so he didn't have to win it all by himself.

KC had put up pretty good numbers without a strong defense or any running attack to speak of. I don't know that most are aware of how hard that is, especially in his first year as starter.

Yea exactly right Im not sold on him. None of us should be. You can read into tone if you want but Ive been pretty clear about what I think.

And i never said we need Tom Brady. But we need a good QB. There are at least 18 QBs better than COusins right now IMO.

And lets look at the past 20 years roughly. Lets narrow it down and say that Rodgers, Brady, Cam, Palmer, Romo, Rivers, Ben, Russell, Luck, and Brees are without a doubt good enough to be a franchise guy. Add in Peyton since hes been drafted within the past 20 years and thats 11 guys. Not to mention you can easily make the case Ryan, Eli, or others should be included in this and that guys like Mariota, Jameis, and Carr all might end up in it. EVEN ignoring that, its 11 guys in a 20 year span - or a guy every 2 years. And thats with me being generous. Now those guys arent all Brady but since I never said we needed Brady I think thats fair.

 

[j_y19]

Yea exactly right Im not sold on him. None of us should be. You can read into tone if you want but Ive been pretty clear about what I think.

And i never said we need Tom Brady. But we need a good QB. There are at least 18 QBs better than COusins right now IMO.

And lets look at the past 20 years roughly. Lets narrow it down and say that Rodgers, Brady, Cam, Palmer, Romo, Rivers, Ben, Russell, Luck, and Brees are without a doubt good enough to be a franchise guy. Add in Peyton since hes been drafted within the past 20 years and thats 11 guys. Not to mention you can easily make the case Ryan, Eli, or others should be included in this and that guys like Mariota, Jameis, and Carr all might end up in it. EVEN ignoring that, its 11 guys in a 20 year span - or a guy every 2 years. And thats with me being generous. Now those guys arent all Brady but since I never said we needed Brady I think thats fair.

only 2 of them are in Brady's class. Peyton and Aaron. I laugh that you would even include Carson Palmer, Jamies Winston or even Russell, Romo, Rivers and Luck in their company. Those 3 are HOFers. At least Russell has won a SB. Winston, Romo, Rivers and Luck have done nothing and Rivers and Romo most likely never will. And Winston.....really? He has played all of 10 games in the NFL. To label him as franchise is like saying, well, that RG3 is a franchise QB after his first 10 games. Oh wait, some of us did......

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Yea exactly right Im not sold on him. None of us should be. You can read into tone if you want but Ive been pretty clear about what I think.

And i never said we need Tom Brady. But we need a good QB. There are at least 18 QBs better than COusins right now IMO.

And lets look at the past 20 years roughly. Lets narrow it down and say that Rodgers, Brady, Cam, Palmer, Romo, Rivers, Ben, Russell, Luck, and Brees are without a doubt good enough to be a franchise guy. Add in Peyton since hes been drafted within the past 20 years and thats 11 guys. Not to mention you can easily make the case Ryan, Eli, or others should be included in this and that guys like Mariota, Jameis, and Carr all might end up in it. EVEN ignoring that, its 11 guys in a 20 year span - or a guy every 2 years. And thats with me being generous. Now those guys arent all Brady but since I never said we needed Brady I think thats fair.

All the guys you mention in the first list (and most you mention after) are either first round picks or guys who a teamed basically lucked out on (e.g. Brady). If the Skins went in a different direction how do you propose that they acquire their next QB especially considering that their track record with 1st round picks has been terrible (understanding it was a different time & GM).

Basically - trying to find out if folks are fine with basically picking a QB with a 1st rd pick & turning this into a crapshoot where the QB very likely could be a bust. This would be opposed to using the pick for another area of need. Otherwise - do you think that the team could luck out & find a Brady or Russell type steal at QB?

Not being critical of you - just looking for your honest opinion.

 

[ehb5]

only 2 of them are in Brady's class. Peyton and Aaron. I laugh that you would even include Carson Palmer, Jamies Winston or even Russell, Romo, Rivers and Luck in their company. Those 3 are HOFers. At least Russell has won a SB. Winston, Romo, Rivers and Luck have done nothing and Rivers and Romo most likely never will. And Winston.....really? He has played all of 10 games in the NFL. To label him as franchise is like saying, well, that RG3 is a franchise QB after his first 10 games. Oh wait, some of us did......

How did you misread that post that badly? I specifically said those QBs ARENT BRADY. I also said they dont need to be. I also didnt put Jameis on that list. You're entire response was based on things I didnt write. Cmon.

 

[ehb5]

All the guys you mention in the first list (and most you mention after) are either first round picks or guys who a teamed basically lucked out on (e.g. Brady). If the Skins went in a different direction how do you propose that they acquire their next QB especially considering that their track record with 1st round picks has been terrible (understanding it was a different time & GM).

Basically - trying to find out if folks are fine with basically picking a QB with a 1st rd pick & turning this into a crapshoot where the QB very likely could be a bust. This would be opposed to using the pick for another area of need. Otherwise - do you think that the team could luck out & find a Brady or Russell type steal at QB?

Not being critical of you - just looking for your honest opinion.

I do think taking a 1st round QB is a fair way to find our QB. But if we resign Kirk at a fair number we may want to look at mid-late round guys just as fliers since Kirk would be coming in as the starter. Most importantly though this doesnt mean you have to draft one this year. If theres not a good option when we're on the clock...take somebody else.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I do think taking a 1st round QB is a fair way to find our QB. But if we resign Kirk at a fair number we may want to look at mid-late round guys just as fliers since Kirk would be coming in as the starter. Most importantly though this doesnt mean you have to draft one this year. If theres not a good option when we're on the clock...take somebody else.

Fair enough if it means waiting till 2017 draft or using a mid round pick. Just remember that both the Redskins and SM have a pretty bad track record with 1st rd picks. The odds of finding a true long term NFL QB are so tough that it would probably make sense to truly determine if Cousins will be the long term answer.

 

[ehb5]

Fair enough if it means waiting till 2017 draft or using a mid round pick. Just remember that both the Redskins and SM have a pretty bad track record with 1st rd picks. The odds of finding a true long term NFL QB are so tough that it would probably make sense to truly determine if Cousins will be the long term answer.

And Im not opposed to that. I just think theres a limit to how much we should be spending on him.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

And Im not opposed to that. I just think theres a limit to how much we should be spending on him.

Agree & given the experience of the FO (to include Allen's skills w/ the cap) I think that the Skins will probably cover themselves here to ensure that they don't get burned badly if Cousins falters in the next few seasons.

 

[j_y19]

And Im not opposed to that. I just think theres a limit to how much we should be spending on him.

Of course there is a limit. But the real question is if you don't pay him his market value and he leaves, WHO DO YOU PUT IN? This just isn't about KC, this is about the rest of the team and their development. And what do you pay them? I guess my concern is that you have to look at the bigger picture and not be penny wise and pound foolish. For and QB you replace him with and we are stating over. Again.

 

[Sharkinva]

I do think taking a 1st round QB is a fair way to find our QB. But if we resign Kirk at a fair number we may want to look at mid-late round guys just as fliers since Kirk would be coming in as the starter. Most importantly though this doesnt mean you have to draft one this year. If theres not a good option when we're on the clock...take somebody else.

Again I will ask, how many times do we have to fail on this before it becomes NOT an option for the team. How many more draft picks and seasons do we need to waste chasing the great one?? Build the team and you dont NEED to have the uber stud. Brady walked into a team that was pretty much already built. Stick Brady, Manning, Romo or any one else you care to name on the rosters we have had around here while chasing the elusive franchise QB and tell me how you think they would do?? If nothing else the RG3 experiment should tell you, and even Dallas this year.... if your team lives and dies on one player... you dont have a team. So why continue to sacrifice draft picks and seasons instead of building the team. So unless one of these rookie QBs IS the next Manning, Brady or Unitas, its simply not worth it.

 

[ehb5]

Of course there is a limit. But the real question is if you don't pay him his market value and he leaves, WHO DO YOU PUT IN? This just isn't about KC, this is about the rest of the team and their development. And what do you pay them? I guess my concern is that you have to look at the bigger picture and not be penny wise and pound foolish. For and QB you replace him with and we are stating over. Again.

You draft somebody or you sign a cheap veteran or play Colt.

 

[ehb5]

Again I will ask, how many times do we have to fail on this before it becomes NOT an option for the team. How many more draft picks and seasons do we need to waste chasing the great one?? Build the team and you dont NEED to have the uber stud. Brady walked into a team that was pretty much already built. Stick Brady, Manning, Romo or any one else you care to name on the rosters we have had around here while chasing the elusive franchise QB and tell me how you think they would do?? If nothing else the RG3 experiment should tell you, and even Dallas this year.... if your team lives and dies on one player... you dont have a team. So why continue to sacrifice draft picks and seasons instead of building the team. So unless one of these rookie QBs IS the next Manning, Brady or Unitas, its simply not worth it.

Until we have a QB we can win a SB with. The biggest flaw of this plan of yours is that you act like its this stroll in the park to build up some juggernaut team around the QB.

If we had Brady, Rodgers, Palmer, or Cam this year we'd easily be a playoff team. Do you really not think that?

 

[Sharkinva]

You draft somebody or you sign a cheap veteran or play Colt.

And what makes you think McCoy will simply bend over and take the starting gig on the cheap?? Sure it would be less than $17 million a season. But if he is signing up to start, you dont really think his agent is going to let a 29 year old sign a one year deal for pennies when he could make the same money else where with a better long term outlook??

But I love the underlying tone here.. .Fuck it, sign or draft any one as long as its not the Meh Cousins.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Most of these guys get 5 yr deals and if you're trending up after 3, you keep them if not, you make a change.

Say if WAS is picking 9th...Me...If there's a plug and play talent at another position...especially one of need...I might take that player over the QB. Otherwise I would take the young QB. I'm not sure if Cousins is going to be much better than a 9-7 kind of starter...whereas I look at Bortles, Carr, maybe Bridgewater with higher potential.

You always seem to stop by and offer a solid post. Thanks for that, you're welcome here anytime.

 

[j_y19]

You draft somebody or you sign a cheap veteran or play Colt.

Really? What cheap vet would you sign? And what would you pay him? Back up money?

Colt? You realize he also is a FA this year. But he will be available, even in this Bad QB market. Know why? Because he isn't an NFL caliber QB and the rest of the league knows this. But you'd be willing to throw next year away also over a couple million. This, in a year that we will be flush with cap space.

Restart.....again

 

[ehb5]

And what makes you think McCoy will simply bend over and take the starting gig on the cheap?? Sure it would be less than $17 million a season. But if he is signing up to start, you dont really think his agent is going to let a 29 year old sign a one year deal for pennies when he could make the same money else where with a better long term outlook??

But I love the underlying tone here.. .Fuck it, sign or draft any one as long as its not the Meh Cousins.

Lol, how much do you think Colt McCoy would cost us?

 

[Sharkinva]

Until we have a QB we can win a SB with. The biggest flaw of this plan of yours is that you act like its this stroll in the park to build up some juggernaut team around the QB.

If we had Brady, Rodgers, Palmer, or Cam this year we'd easily be a playoff team. Do you really not think that?

What ALL those QBs currently have that we dont are SOLID defenses and consistent running games. So fuck no I dont think we would be a playoffs team with any one of them.

 

[j_y19]

And what makes you think McCoy will simply bend over and take the starting gig on the cheap?? Sure it would be less than $17 million a season. But if he is signing up to start, you dont really think his agent is going to let a 29 year old sign a one year deal for pennies when he could make the same money else where with a better long term outlook??

But I love the underlying tone here.. .Fuck it, sign or draft any one as long as its not the Meh Cousins.

Bingo.

Anyone but Cousins. Don't know what he did, but it left a scar.

 

[j_y19]

Lol, how much do you think Colt McCoy would cost us?

Not much. And that should tell you something.