• Have something to say? Register Now! and be posting in minutes!

more franchise qb stuff

gkekoa

Well-Known Member
18,335
2,170
173
Joined
Jul 18, 2013
Location
somewhere over the rainbow
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
i put the numbers up . and your numbers for resigning players keeps going up and up the minute i show it working . its an endless debate going around in circles . everything you say goes back to choices not money

Show me once where a number went up. I have backed everything up with actual numbers from respected sites.

You have backed it up with nothing accurate. You have misread sites continuously and I have laid the facts before you.

We will not sign all four of our DL long term. Hopefully, we can sign three and TM.
 

Sportster 72

Well-Known Member
13,288
3,138
293
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I really don't think it is a matter of whether they can or not but a matter of will they. I have long said they will likely not keep all four No. 1 picks. I do not have any facts and figures other than the history under the little man says they will not keep them all. Not to mention it is way to hard to predict injuries over the next three or four years.
 

skinsdad62

US ARMY retired /mod.
Supporting Member Level 3
57,844
6,880
533
Joined
Aug 7, 2011
Location
ada mi
Hoopla Cash
$ 4,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I really don't think it is a matter of whether they can or not but a matter of will they. I have long said they will likely not keep all four No. 1 picks. I do not have any facts and figures other than the history under the little man says they will not keep them all. Not to mention it is way to hard to predict injuries over the next three or four years.
i have been saying this from the get go but somehow we are going to eat up 197 mil on everything else . you can sign them one at a time the year they become due . and you can sign most of the others .
 

Sportster 72

Well-Known Member
13,288
3,138
293
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
i have been saying this from the get go but somehow we are going to eat up 197 mil on everything else . you can sign them one at a time the year they become due . and you can sign most of the others .
I know dad, I do not have an arguement about whether they can be signed. We let a lot of good players go over the years, that was the point I was pondering.
 

skinsdad62

US ARMY retired /mod.
Supporting Member Level 3
57,844
6,880
533
Joined
Aug 7, 2011
Location
ada mi
Hoopla Cash
$ 4,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I know dad, I do not have an arguement about whether they can be signed. We let a lot of good players go over the years, that was the point I was pondering.
i believe the team will choose not to hold on to all of them . they may opt for the cheaper settles or ionman and use resources elsewhere . but thats a choice not a we dont have the money argument

the debating point i have been having with every tom , dick and harry ( not you even though i am quoting you ) is then you cant sign players x , y , and z to every overpriced made up salary that can be come up with . falco is now a 10 -25 mil player ? if he wins the job he gets my budget if he doesnt he wont get much more then he is making

one minute rbs are a dime a dozen , the next i have to pay up to 20 mil for one . CH is a good lb , but has never been all pro or a pro bowler and now its 10 -15 mil to sign him ? curl cant make LC money when we make the cut ?

all these "yearly avgs " are just a joke anyway . the only parts that have to be worried about are guaranteed moneys . contracts can be front loaded , back loaded , spread out over time . guarantees can be paid in different ways and bonus' can be used

the issue is , is the money there ? yes it is , will they do it ? perhaps not but that is about choice not funding
 

skinz2winz

Well-Known Member
6,273
870
113
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
My guess is the team will approach each player they are wanting to resign. Doesn't mean they will resign (Scherff). You can offer some players the highest guaranteed amount in history for one player/position and he still might turn it down. From what we have all witnessed to date, who wouldn't want to resign Young, Allen, Payne, Sweat? I do so perhaps we draft their back ups without dropping huge bank on Settle, Ioanman and other back ups. If Jamin turns out the way we all suspect and hope for, his demands for resigning may be costly. We are moving LC's numbers off the books after this year and with left over cap space, perhaps RR goes with youth and cuts LC's this year and bites the bullet. We shall see...
 

countryroads316

Well-Known Member
7,322
572
113
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Location
West Virginia
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Let Scherff walk Right Guard is easier to replace then a dominant Dlinemen in their prime
 

gkekoa

Well-Known Member
18,335
2,170
173
Joined
Jul 18, 2013
Location
somewhere over the rainbow
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
i believe the team will choose not to hold on to all of them . they may opt for the cheaper settles or ionman and use resources elsewhere . but thats a choice not a we dont have the money argument

the debating point i have been having with every tom , dick and harry ( not you even though i am quoting you ) is then you cant sign players x , y , and z to every overpriced made up salary that can be come up with . falco is now a 10 -25 mil player ? if he wins the job he gets my budget if he doesnt he wont get much more then he is making

one minute rbs are a dime a dozen , the next i have to pay up to 20 mil for one . CH is a good lb , but has never been all pro or a pro bowler and now its 10 -15 mil to sign him ? curl cant make LC money when we make the cut ?

all these "yearly avgs " are just a joke anyway . the only parts that have to be worried about are guaranteed moneys . contracts can be front loaded , back loaded , spread out over time . guarantees can be paid in different ways and bonus' can be used

the issue is , is the money there ? yes it is , will they do it ? perhaps not but that is about choice not funding

I hope they don’t hold onto all of them. They need to trade one and try to get a first, hopefully Payne when he comes up. I would love for them to sign Settle to a much cheaper contract and give him a shot.

Nobody ever claimed you have to pay Gibson 20 million, and RBs are a dime a dozen. You will need to pay him 10-15 million to keep him after two more seasons. There are currently 7 RBs making 10 or greater and 3 RBs at 15 or greater. These numbers will go up.

You are right, Cole Holcomb is a good LB. He is on par with Cory Littleton who signed for nearly 12 million per. Well, two years from now, the price for a good LB will go up.

I don’t even know what you are talking about with Curl.

Yearly averages is the only way to project. You can do things with the cap; however, with carryover space, averages sure as hell do matter.


It is absolutely a choice of funding. If funding were not an issue, then we would resign every player I mentioned at even more than I projected.
 

Skin'EmAll

Professional, Pot-Stirrer
2,386
388
83
Joined
Jul 8, 2013
Location
FedEx Field
Hoopla Cash
$ 500.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
To have a competitive 53 man roster, we have to pass on signing the d line to second term contracts. It's really that simple unless you dont want Mclaurin and a decent o line. If it were possible the NFL would be full of super teams
 

skinsdad62

US ARMY retired /mod.
Supporting Member Level 3
57,844
6,880
533
Joined
Aug 7, 2011
Location
ada mi
Hoopla Cash
$ 4,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
To have a competitive 53 man roster, we have to pass on signing the d line to second term contracts. It's really that simple unless you dont want Mclaurin and a decent o line. If it were possible the NFL would be full of super teams
of course we will have a competitive roster 3 guys dont chew up 197 mil . i didnt say 4 because 25 isnt listed and thats a chase year
 

gkekoa

Well-Known Member
18,335
2,170
173
Joined
Jul 18, 2013
Location
somewhere over the rainbow
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
of course we will have a competitive roster 3 guys dont chew up 197 mil . i didnt say 4 because 25 isnt listed and thats a chase year

Chase will be on his fifth year option in 2025.

That needs to come off of the 197 million just like it is a new contract for Chase.

Chase will be paid between 20-25 million at a minimum for 2025.
 

skinsdad62

US ARMY retired /mod.
Supporting Member Level 3
57,844
6,880
533
Joined
Aug 7, 2011
Location
ada mi
Hoopla Cash
$ 4,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
To have a competitive 53 man roster, we have to pass on signing the d line to second term contracts. It's really that simple unless you dont want Mclaurin and a decent o line. If it were possible the NFL would be full of super teams
of course we will have a competitive roster 3 guys dont chew up 197 mil . i didnt say 4 because 25 isnt listed and thats a chase year and 20 to 25 is even less then the 40 mil i gave chase in my calculation
 

gkekoa

Well-Known Member
18,335
2,170
173
Joined
Jul 18, 2013
Location
somewhere over the rainbow
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
of course we will have a competitive roster 3 guys dont chew up 197 mil . i didnt say 4 because 25 isnt listed and thats a chase year and 20 to 25 is even less then the 40 mil i gave chase in my calculation

You seem to misunderstand quite frequently.

2024 cap space is 197 million but that is with only 15 people signed. Chase Young is not signed in 2024. We will exercise the fifth year option which will cost at least 20-25 million because that option is the same as the franchise tag.

2025 is when Chase will cost 40 million because he will be a FA. Currently, we have 256 million available because we only have William Jackson and Curtis Samuel counting…both as pro-rated bonuses but neither signed. So we need 51 players to count against that cap still.
 

skinsdad62

US ARMY retired /mod.
Supporting Member Level 3
57,844
6,880
533
Joined
Aug 7, 2011
Location
ada mi
Hoopla Cash
$ 4,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
You seem to misunderstand quite frequently.

2024 cap space is 197 million but that is with only 15 people signed. Chase Young is not signed in 2024. We will exercise the fifth year option which will cost at least 20-25 million because that option is the same as the franchise tag.

2025 is when Chase will cost 40 million because he will be a FA. Currently, we have 256 million available because we only have William Jackson and Curtis Samuel counting…both as pro-rated bonuses but neither signed. So we need 51 players to count against that cap still.
I get there are only 15 people signed , but that will change by 2024 and there is no way you will ever , ever convince me that we can’t sign one a year till that time . And sign our other players we want . I counted 40 mil on chase In 2024 even though it will actually be 20-25 mil

Chase doesn’t have to be dealt with till 2025
if the sportstrac numbers hold ( historically they are low )
Payne , Allen Ironman settle young and sweat as good as they have been have 2 pbs and no all pro ‘s between them
As much as we like TMac he hasn’t gotten any either
Now you say that only 15 are under contract in 2024 . We will have 21 drafted players not accounted for making that 36 players . Add at least 7 more before we get to Chase and we are at 43 . All on rookie deals . For 2 yrs in a row RR has been frugal in free agency . That should continue .
Low cost players like Leno flowers Lucas Wes humphries Thomas JD , barber falco and kyle Allen dot our roster and I will expect the same thing will happen again and again with good scouting
Rbs, wrs lbs DBs are easier to find the dominate pass rushers . We will find competent players or our FO will be fired .

whether we decide to do that or not is another matter entirely as I have said 90 thousand times like a broken record

dont conflate can and will . 2 different words 2 different meanings

don’t conflate my saying we CAN as me believing they WILL

I can easily see them letting Allen or Payne or both walk and use that money in other areas to make up the shortfall . But make no mistake a top 5 defense could turn into 12 to 15 . And that affects how we are built to win

much like the o/line , with BS they are a top 6 rated line , maybe they feel they can win with the 12th best without him and allocate resources elsewhere . But again that affects how this team is built

it’s really simple , they have the money to keep them . If they decide to keep them then they will have to win with what they have most likely by being frugal in Fa , get steady qb play , draft and scout well .
 

gkekoa

Well-Known Member
18,335
2,170
173
Joined
Jul 18, 2013
Location
somewhere over the rainbow
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I get there are only 15 people signed , but that will change by 2024 and there is no way you will ever , ever convince me that we can’t sign one a year till that time . And sign our other players we want . I counted 40 mil on chase In 2024 even though it will actually be 20-25 mil

Chase doesn’t have to be dealt with till 2025
if the sportstrac numbers hold ( historically they are low )
Payne , Allen Ironman settle young and sweat as good as they have been have 2 pbs and no all pro ‘s between them
As much as we like TMac he hasn’t gotten any either
Now you say that only 15 are under contract in 2024 . We will have 21 drafted players not accounted for making that 36 players . Add at least 7 more before we get to Chase and we are at 43 . All on rookie deals . For 2 yrs in a row RR has been frugal in free agency . That should continue .
Low cost players like Leno flowers Lucas Wes humphries Thomas JD , barber falco and kyle Allen dot our roster and I will expect the same thing will happen again and again with good scouting
Rbs, wrs lbs DBs are easier to find the dominate pass rushers . We will find competent players or our FO will be fired .

whether we decide to do that or not is another matter entirely as I have said 90 thousand times like a broken record

dont conflate can and will . 2 different words 2 different meanings

don’t conflate my saying we CAN as me believing they WILL

I can easily see them letting Allen or Payne or both walk and use that money in other areas to make up the shortfall . But make no mistake a top 5 defense could turn into 12 to 15 . And that affects how we are built to win

much like the o/line , with BS they are a top 6 rated line , maybe they feel they can win with the 12th best without him and allocate resources elsewhere . But again that affects how this team is built

it’s really simple , they have the money to keep them . If they decide to keep them then they will have to win with what they have most likely by being frugal in Fa , get steady qb play , draft and scout well .
In 2024, Chase will be 20-25 million. I don’t understand why you would say 40 million. If you count Chase at 20 million in 2024, you are down to 177 million with 16 players signed.

Yes…how many did KC have when he became the highest paid? That literally has nothing to do with getting paid.

So you think every draft pick will make the team, let alone count against the cap?
You do realize first rounders aren’t all that cheap?

Why hasn’t any other team in the NFL signed that many of their own?
 

skinsdad62

US ARMY retired /mod.
Supporting Member Level 3
57,844
6,880
533
Joined
Aug 7, 2011
Location
ada mi
Hoopla Cash
$ 4,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
the current amount of rookie cap the skins have is 8 mil . that figure depends on draft placement . not a devastating figure . i think i mentioned why i counted 40 mil for chase in 2024 but what difference does that make other then its in my favor ?

how the hell do i know what other teams do with their cap ?

i know that tampa resigned their key guys after the superbowl

how the hell do i know what choices they decide to make ?

i do know if we decide to keep them we have the money to do so

and for the 90,001st time i will say again that it doesnt mean they will . both sides have to agree

and KC played in a pro bowl in 2016 while with the skins
 

gkekoa

Well-Known Member
18,335
2,170
173
Joined
Jul 18, 2013
Location
somewhere over the rainbow
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
2024

Players we would like to have under contract but aren’t.

Jonathan Allen 20 million
Daron Payne- 20 million
Montez Sweat- 25 million
Chase Young- 25 million because his option will be that high

Cole Holcomb- 10 million (OTC 2020 was 7 million)

Kendall Fuller- 15 million
Camren Curl- 10 million low ball

Antonio Gibson- 10 million low ball

TM- 20 million low ball
Curtis Samuel- 15 million low ball

The above is 170 million for 2024. Assuming every first and second rounder makes the team until 2024, we will say 6 million per year starting with this season’s crop is another 24 million for 8 more players. That is 194 million for 18 players.

Let’s be really cheap and keep our current cap for OL, as if the price doesn’t go up and we won’t include Scherff…we will call it 20 million for 5 players. 214 million for 23 players. Let’s add dead cap of 15 million and that is 229 million for 23 players. We only need another 28 players for top 51, one of which is a QB.
 

skinsdad62

US ARMY retired /mod.
Supporting Member Level 3
57,844
6,880
533
Joined
Aug 7, 2011
Location
ada mi
Hoopla Cash
$ 4,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
2024

Players we would like to have under contract but aren’t.

Jonathan Allen 20 million
Daron Payne- 20 million
Montez Sweat- 25 million
Chase Young- 25 million because his option will be that high

Cole Holcomb- 10 million (OTC 2020 was 7 million)

Kendall Fuller- 15 million
Camren Curl- 10 million low ball

Antonio Gibson- 10 million low ball

TM- 20 million low ball
Curtis Samuel- 15 million low ball

The above is 170 million for 2024. Assuming every first and second rounder makes the team until 2024, we will say 6 million per year starting with this season’s crop is another 24 million for 8 more players. That is 194 million for 18 players.

Let’s be really cheap and keep our current cap for OL, as if the price doesn’t go up and we won’t include Scherff…we will call it 20 million for 5 players. 214 million for 23 players. Let’s add dead cap of 15 million and that is 229 million for 23 players. We only need another 28 players for top 51, one of which is a QB.
round and round we go
 
Top