more franchise qb stuff

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

Dt is in play in the first round probaly option B option A would be Qb option C would OL OG maybe even DE .. Sweat is Trade Bait and is unresignable he will be the highest paid DE in Nfl when he goes Free Agent

 

[skinsdad62]

we still didn't even TOUCH QB.
Is there any other team in the NFL that has four 1st rounders still in their rookie deals or at least 2 in the rookie deal and others in a new contract?
I'd like to see that formula -- if not -- then sorry Skinsdad -- without someone taking a hometown discount -- your theory is impossible.
IF this was anyone else, we'd tell you, youre crazy

i am sorry but i put the numbers out there and they say we can if we WANT to . be ABLE to and WANTING to are 2 different things and you guys continue to conflate the 2

i have maintained we have the cap space to do so . i have shown we have it . i also have maintained the FO has to WANT to keep them . i have also maintained the PLAYERS have to WANT to stay as well

to say that each player we have is entitled to be the highest paid at their position , and in some cases in 3 yrs the highest paid player salary will double is way off base . to say that hopkins is guaranteed 27 mil a yr is again way off base NFL contracts are not guaranteed and he wont see the tail end of his contract with the cards

DeAndre Hopkins

and contracts will be done much like this

now to tell me that allen , payne ionman all will get record breaking contracts with 1 pro bowl between them is shaky at best add to it yearly guaranteed money topping 20 mil a yr for the length of the contract ? maybe a 2yr deal but not a long term one

to tell me sweat and young will get record breaking contracts with one double digit sack yr and one pro bowl between them ?

you guys wouldnt pay an ALL PRO 18 mil a yr and none of these guys have attained that level

ever think you could simply draft wrs , RB te's and lbs and dbs every now and then to replace guys that leave

ever think that really WINNING can change players and teams minds ?

now i will spell it out for you , just because i say we have the cap space to resign them DOESNT mean we WILL sign them , OK ? we could draft their replacement if he is there in the draft at our pick . that would fall under the team WANTING to do it . THE PLAYER could pull a KC and say there is no amount of money you can pay me to stay here . i am bagging on your excuse that we dont have the money ,

now if you are building a team to win with its defense and having good qb play then you better KEEP your best assets hence its worth the money

the chiefs PAID their asset , mahomes but they paid for it by losing their OT 's and losing the big game . they fixed that this off season

if you lose that dominate d/line then you have to find another way to win so you are going to spend your money somewhere and not in other places

so if you let allen and payne walk you run with settle and ionman , now ionman or settle gets hurt where are you at ? no dominate d/line and even that d/line is compromised . so you have to win another way but you built your roster to win with defense

so what you are saying is you want to spend those resources on offense without having our franchise qb yet and you want the offense to dominate . OK and that is a CHOICE which leads me back to what i have been saying . ITS the FO's choice to resign them not a money issue

 

[Skin'EmAll]

Fine then, I don't completely agree its possible, so my hope based on your presentation is that both the F.O and the employee want to stay on the team

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

When a player is coming off there rookie deal there looking for the biggest payday to set there famiy up for life the 3rd contract is where do we want to live the rest of our life and what team do i want to end my story.. Yes Sweat will be the highest paid De in History why because teams will pay it .. in a nfl cap there is a budget how much do you want to spend on Shreff well we can afford him this year because the rest of the oline is cheap so if schreff is getting OT money watch you would spend on OT rest of the line is avg pay.. this is what the Dline will face as well one player will get Paid (Young) the rest rookie contract money or a little above . Wtf would Allen resign. CHASE will get Von Miller Money 18 to 23 a year Sweat will get at list 15 to 18 thats 36 mill for 2 De .. bottom line we not going build a 80 mill DL Sweat and Allen gone insert rookie DT and Rookie DE again i think Payne Young only LONG TERM DL

 

[Sportster 72]

Knowing what we do know you could tear apart that entire interview. One thing I like is he doesn't sound like a condescending Richard like Bruce did but he is giving the company line all the way.

Saying they aren't trying to fit the hash tag is asinine. The song etc. etc. it is the history of the team. Fans love it! They are total dicks!! The comment about the name Warriors holds NO water as long as the teams I mentioned in my last post are around. Bullshit!! Bullshit!! Bullshit!! The funny thing about Dan is he thinks we are as stupid as he is.

The more they say things have changed the more you see that have not.

 

[skinsdad62]

When a player is coming off there rookie deal there looking for the biggest payday to set there famiy up for life the 3rd contract is where do we want to live the rest of our life and what team do i want to end my story.. Yes Sweat will be the highest paid De in History why because teams will pay it .. in a nfl cap there is a budget how much do you want to spend on Shreff well we can afford him this year because the rest of the oline is cheap so if schreff is getting OT money watch you would spend on OT rest of the line is avg pay.. this is what the Dline will face as well one player will get Paid (Young) the rest rookie contract money or a little above . Wtf would Allen resign. CHASE will get Von Miller Money 18 to 23 a year Sweat will get at list 15 to 18 thats 36 mill for 2 De .. bottom line we not going build a 80 mill DL Sweat and Allen gone insert rookie DT and Rookie DE again i think Payne Young only LONG TERM DL

that is all fine and dandy coach but since you dont have players at other positions that can make up the shortfall you weaken the team . we were fortunate that we were able to put together this d/line and if the team is built to win with defense and your defense is predicated on d/line play you best keep your d/line that is entering its prime .

now lets look at what we have . you are about to weaken a top 6 o/line to about 15 . your te's are not paid like playmakers and hence that will be weakened , you have no franchise qb to carry a team with a weakened defense . your LBS can play but the d/line allows them to make plays but you want to weaken that and our dbs are good at cb but shaky at safety (esp free safety )

i think we are way closer to keeping a superior defense on the field then we are to finding a franchise qb on the cheap . that will cost money and resources that again weaken the team and prohibit drafting young cheap talent to fill gaps

i can at least see letting BS walk because he is heading into his 30 , is already in his prime , and by the end of his contract he wont be playing at the level that warrants his contract , but that doesnt apply to allen , payne sweat or chase .

and please tell me what sweat or young have done to warrant being the highest paid De's ? out of all our highly touted d/lineman there are exactly 2 pro bowls between them , no all pro's , no mvps , one DROY and one double digit sack year .

also we have sweat for 3 more yrs plus(possible franchise tags) , we have young 4 more yrs ( and possible franchise tags )

the only things we have to address soon are BS (likely gone ) , tmac (likely 20 mil ) allen contract running out ( could be franchised tagged )

we have payne for 2 more yrs (plus possible franchise tag )

all these moves do not have to be done all this year and that is what people forget . maybe they will sign cheap experienced DT's and live with that when the time comes but if i am the FO i am doing everything to keep this group together as long as possible especially when they are entering their prime

 

[gkekoa]

that is all fine and dandy coach but since you dont have players at other positions that can make up the shortfall you weaken the team . we were fortunate that we were able to put together this d/line and if the team is built to win with defense and your defense is predicated on d/line play you best keep your d/line that is entering its prime .

now lets look at what we have . you are about to weaken a top 6 o/line to about 15 . your te's are not paid like playmakers and hence that will be weakened , you have no franchise qb to carry a team with a weakened defense . your LBS can play but the d/line allows them to make plays but you want to weaken that and our dbs are good at cb but shaky at safety (esp free safety )

i think we are way closer to keeping a superior defense on the field then we are to finding a franchise qb on the cheap . that will cost money and resources that again weaken the team and prohibit drafting young cheap talent to fill gaps

i can at least see letting BS walk because he is heading into his 30 , is already in his prime , and by the end of his contract he wont be playing at the level that warrants his contract , but that doesnt apply to allen , payne sweat or chase .

and please tell me what sweat or young have done to warrant being the highest paid De's ? out of all our highly touted d/lineman there are exactly 2 pro bowls between them , no all pro's , no mvps , one DROY and one double digit sack year .

also we have sweat for 3 more yrs plus(possible franchise tags) , we have young 4 more yrs ( and possible franchise tags )

the only things we have to address soon are BS (likely gone ) , tmac (likely 20 mil ) allen contract running out ( could be franchised tagged )

we have payne for 2 more yrs (plus possible franchise tag )

all these moves do not have to be done all this year and that is what people forget . maybe they will sign cheap experienced DT's and live with that when the time comes but if i am the FO i am doing everything to keep this group together as long as possible especially when they are entering their prime

Here is the problem I have with your take on contracts. You don’t have to be the best in order to be the highest paid.

TM has two more years on his contract.

Currently, the following players make 20+ million per year…
Deandre Hopkins 27.5 million
Julio Jones 22 mil
Keenan Allen 20+ mil
Amari Cooper 20 mil

This past offseason saw Golloday and Robinson go for 18 mil, with Robinson taking a one year deal just so he can bankrupt some team next season. Guess who else is a FA next season…Davante Adams. He will set the market at over 25 mil.

So unless you think contracts are going to go down with this extra cap space you keep talking about…I think you are way off.

 

[skinsdad62]

Here is the problem I have with your take on contracts. You don’t have to be the best in order to be the highest paid.

TM has two more years on his contract.

Currently, the following players make 20+ million per year…
Deandre Hopkins 27.5 million
Julio Jones 22 mil
Keenan Allen 20+ mil
Amari Cooper 20 mil

This past offseason saw Golloday and Robinson go for 18 mil, with Robinson taking a one year deal just so he can bankrupt some team next season. Guess who else is a FA next season…Davante Adams. He will set the market at over 25 mil.

So unless you think contracts are going to go down with this extra cap space you keep talking about…I think you are way off.

Here is my take on your talk of contracts , you don’t get a 50% increase on the top salary just for being good . The thing is we have the money to keep them , no question about it . The issue is you guys want to buy new shiny toys and the LOS isn’t flashy enough . And if you do that or the team does that you better hit on those toys .

this board has been all about spending money you don’t need to on 3rd string RBs , the newest FA , on TEs when the cheap Thomas came through .

GK you used to be about releasing guys before they hit the down side of their careers . Now you don’t want them as they hit their primes .

we have the money to keep them , the question is do we have the will to do so . By the same token they have to have the will to stay

no one is paying young more money then mahomes

the numbers I have posted on these guys are what should been talked about in nfl circles
I have never seen a 40 mil. Yr projection for chase young by any legitimate source
I have not seen any projection for sweat being the highest paid DE in football by any legit source

of course their is a difference between can and will

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

Its called teams will overpay

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

You are Not even including the logic of there could be better players example at Dt then allen the next 3 years but you decided to keep allen .. and pass on Suh, sapp and another guy lile i said before you wait to see you draft order if only if you have a top 10 pick or top 5 you can let a allen or sweat go and draft a player that can be better plus cheaper

 

[skinsdad62]

You are Not even including the logic of there could be better players example at Dt then allen the next 3 years but you decided to keep allen .. and pass on Suh, sapp and another guy lile i said before you wait to see you draft order if only if you have a top 10 pick or top 5 you can let a allen or sweat go and draft a player that can be better plus cheaper

and the flip side of that can be true coach and there might not be any better ones coming out . this isnt the kansas jayhawks coach you have to try and keep top players .

now are we trying to win superbowls or are we trying to be dollar general ?

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

RR has many of times said the biggest mistake he made at being a coach is keeping a player to long .. sometimes 5 years is to long

 

[skinsdad62]

RR has many of times said the biggest mistake he made at being a coach is keeping a player to long .. sometimes 5 years is to long

i think having young 1st round talented players playing together at a high level doesnt constitute the time to move on . i see your point if they are not going into their prime and are on the downside but not when they are entering their prime and have performed like their draft position suggested they should .

sometimes 5 yrs is too long , for dwayne haskins , or RG3 but not proven performers entering their prime

and what does it matter if you are contending for superbowls by keeping your best assets together while cycling through cheap young talent at other positions like rb , wr , te db , and LB ? . i think its way easier to find those guys then top LOS guys by far

now letting RK go while he is on the downside of his career is more in line with what RR meant . perhaps even BS who is entering his 30's and may have only 2 yrs left in his prime but not guys who are 26 yrs old

 

[gkekoa]

Here is my take on your talk of contracts , you don’t get a 50% increase on the top salary just for being good . The thing is we have the money to keep them , no question about it . The issue is you guys want to buy new shiny toys and the LOS isn’t flashy enough . And if you do that or the team does that you better hit on those toys .

this board has been all about spending money you don’t need to on 3rd string RBs , the newest FA , on TEs when the cheap Thomas came through .

GK you used to be about releasing guys before they hit the down side of their careers . Now you don’t want them as they hit their primes .

we have the money to keep them , the question is do we have the will to do so . By the same token they have to have the will to stay

no one is paying young more money then mahomes

the numbers I have posted on these guys are what should been talked about in nfl circles
I have never seen a 40 mil. Yr projection for chase young by any legitimate source
I have not seen any projection for sweat being the highest paid DE in football by any legit source

of course their is a difference between can and will

Who is getting a 50% increase on the top salary for just being good? I think you may want to do some math. You talk about this huge salary cap jump coming next year. So I projected a cap of 300million based on your statements. According to OTC, that is roughly what the cap will be in 2025, when Chase Young is a FA. Currently, the top DE salary is 27 million. By 2025, the projected cap will go up by 60%. 60% of 27 million is 16 million. So theoretically, the top DE salary by 2025 will be over 40 million. Feel free to check my numbers.

NFL and NFLPA Look Forward to the Future Salary Cap | Over the Cap

NFL and NFLPA Look Forward to the Future Salary Cap | Over the Cap

overthecap.com

Who don’t I want to pay going into their prime? I am so confused by your statement?

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

By the time sweat is Fa his value is around 18 to 24 a year but i am sure he will want 24 plus a year but since the cap goes up there will be team with lile 90 mill to spend that will make Sweat the highest paid

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

If Allen balls out this year he will demand highest paid Dt money or close to it so why would he agree to anything Now .worst case he gets Franchise taged which he will make big money to

 

[skinsdad62]

Who is getting a 50% increase on the top salary for just being good? I think you may want to do some math. You talk about this huge salary cap jump coming next year. So I projected a cap of 300million based on your statements. According to OTC, that is roughly what the cap will be in 2025, when Chase Young is a FA. Currently, the top DE salary is 27 million. By 2025, the projected cap will go up by 60%. 60% of 27 million is 16 million. So theoretically, the top DE salary by 2025 will be over 40 million. Feel free to check my numbers.

NFL and NFLPA Look Forward to the Future Salary Cap | Over the Cap

NFL and NFLPA Look Forward to the Future Salary Cap | Over the Cap

overthecap.com

Who don’t I want to pay going into their prime? I am so confused by your statement?

i appreciate you doing the research and proving me right . we will have the money to resign them all if we WANT TO .it all doesnt have to be done next year . we can deal with allen first . then payne , then sweat , then young on year at a time one hit at a time one year at a time . those are the numbers you gave

choices will be made based on lots of things but as far as money is concerned that isnt the deal breaker

if we go star chasing , that could change things but that is a choice to go sexy not a money thing

perhaps they draft a guy or 2 that fill the bill , i havent seen the guys yet but they could choose that route but again that doesnt mean cap space is the driver

 

[gkekoa]

i appreciate you doing the research and proving me right . we will have the money to resign them all if we WANT TO .it all doesnt have to be done next year . we can deal with allen first . then payne , then sweat , then young on year at a time one hit at a time one year at a time . those are the numbers you gave

choices will be made based on lots of things but as far as money is concerned that isnt the deal breaker

if we go star chasing , that could change things but that is a choice to go sexy not a money thing

perhaps they draft a guy or 2 that fill the bill , i havent seen the guys yet but they could choose that route but again that doesnt mean cap space is the driver

With the numbers I gave, there is no way we can afford them all because there will be other players on the team.

 

[skinsdad62]

With the numbers I gave, there is no way we can afford them all because there will be other players on the team.

and again thats about choices not money

 

[Skin'EmAll]

Resigning the defensive line could be possible, if you let Mclaurin walk, have a rookie qb contract, and have absolutely no reliable depth. They would become the face of the team, you'd also have to let your corners walk and trade up in the draft to only Carry about 4 picks so you'd have money to sign your picks. Then you'd have to cut several players to get under the cap. The NFL cap prevents super teams because players wanna get paid to ensure they are set if injury or production drops. New England was the last team to convice players to take discounts because they were winning superbowls. You work 5 years at a job, and everyone else gets a big raise and they ask you to decline to help out the organization? I'm out.....same with these players