MLB (Non Mariners) Off Season News

[NWinAZ]

You knew I would look it up...lol

Minor leaguers are joining the MLBPA: Here's what the unionization means

After a surprisingly quick final push to a years-long process, we're answering all your questions about minor league unionization -- how it happened, what it means and what's next.

www.espn.com

 

[wazzu31]

Ah you assume the MLB is a democracy. Those three teams and maybe one or two others run the league.

Deferred money doesn't hurt anyone. It still raises wages that agents use to get their guys more money and PA still gets their cut.



My understanding was MiLB guys fought against MLBPA because PA was trying to set rules for them and they aren't part of the union. I could be wrong, but that is what I recall. And after that, they included them in bargaining.

I agree it is 100% screwed up, but as long as profits are recorded breaking and wages are record breaking, who will want to change that. I have said for decades that sports need a third party with equal power representing fans...the paying customers that allow all these sides to make multi-millions.

No MLB isn’t a democracy. But the teams who want the Dodgers to give them free money can outvote the Dodgers. And those teams are now incentivized because the MLB is now in control of a huge portion of their revenue.

100% disagree with deferring money doesn’t hurt the members. As a union you want a 10/700 millon dollar contract being paid in those 10 years. It hurts the majority of members who don’t want to defer money because they aren’t going to be making 700 million. MLB is already squeezing out the “middle class” of FA’s and they can’t allow that to become the norm. The PA gets their cut, but the guys who aren’t making that money don’t get that cut. They get hosed and that’s why Tony Clark has one more chance at a CBA.

I’m not 100% sure, I know the MiLB guys have their own union now. And the guys they voting in, they tried having them take over the MLBPA. Clark was on all the shows in spring talking about how strong and united the union is…..which means it isn’t.

Profits and wages is why I think the union is going to implode. Profits are at an all time high, salaries are at an all time high. But the percentage of those making legit money vs the guys who are actually producing is horrific. You got guys like Yamamoto who got massively overpaid because he wasn’t a union member, while Gilbert and Kirby are much better pitchers and together don’t make yearly what he does and for sure in Gilbert’s scenario the current MLBPA higher ups, more or less forced, him into not signing the contract the M’s offered. That isn’t a sustainable model for the PA to stay intact.

 

[wazzu31]

MLBPA won't do a thing. As long as players are getting massive deals whether it's while playing or retired is all that matters to them. Their sole job is to make sure players get pay raises. It's up to Manfred and MLB to close the loop hole and put restrictions on deferred payments.

100% disagree. The entire point of the PA is for the collective not the individual. While it hasn’t exactly been for the collective, they are at a cross roads where the “whole” outnumbers the guys who are reaping the profits and can outvote them.

 

[wazzu31]

You knew I would look it up...lol

Minor leaguers are joining the MLBPA: Here's what the unionization means

After a surprisingly quick final push to a years-long process, we're answering all your questions about minor league unionization -- how it happened, what it means and what's next.

www.espn.com

I will not pretend to be an expert. But everything I’ve heard or read, is there is a massive gap between the MiLB guys or their leadership or whatever, vs the MLBPA which Clark is the head of. Maybe it was the representation of the MiLB guys that got them unionized, I’m not sure but the guys involved in creating a MiLB union or got them in the MLBPA is different than the Tony Clark led guys.

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[PolarVortex]

Why do I get the bad feeling that Jurickson Profar is just the type of player that Dipoto will overpay to bring to Seattle? Too much of his history points to potential future Mariner.

* He's played for four teams: Rangers, Padres, A's, Rockies. All four, like the Mariners, are Cactus League teams. Two of the four teams are in our division. One of the teams shares our Spring training facility. In other words, Dipoto has seen plenty of this guy.

* He is a free agent coming off of a career year. His career year also fell off a cliff in the last two months of the season when he only had 15 RBI in his last 50 games.

* He turns 32 in February. Most GMs will see Profar for what he is: a once highly-touted prospect who never lived up to the hype. Coming off a career year but otherwise an average defender with average speed and average power, coming off an anomalous season triggered by a desire for one last big contract, and entering the career decline era of his career.

Unfortunately he really sounds like a Dipoto guy. 3 years/$57 million.

 

[NWinAZ]

Why do I get the bad feeling that Jurickson Profar is just the type of player that Dipoto will overpay to bring to Seattle? Too much of his history points to potential future Mariner.

* He's played for four teams: Rangers, Padres, A's, Rockies. All four, like the Mariners, are Cactus League teams. Two of the four teams are in our division. One of the teams shares our Spring training facility. In other words, Dipoto has seen plenty of this guy.

* He is a free agent coming off of a career year. His career year also fell off a cliff in the last two months of the season when he only had 15 RBI in his last 50 games.

* He turns 32 in February. Most GMs will see Profar for what he is: a once highly-touted prospect who never lived up to the hype. Coming off a career year but otherwise an average defender with average speed and average power, coming off an anomalous season triggered by a desire for one last big contract, and entering the career decline era of his career.

Unfortunately he really sounds like a Dipoto guy. 3 years/$57 million.

I agree, but this is the one time we are lucky enough to not have the money for someone.

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[NWinAZ]

LOL!

 

[wazzu31]

Why do I get the bad feeling that Jurickson Profar is just the type of player that Dipoto will overpay to bring to Seattle? Too much of his history points to potential future Mariner.

* He's played for four teams: Rangers, Padres, A's, Rockies. All four, like the Mariners, are Cactus League teams. Two of the four teams are in our division. One of the teams shares our Spring training facility. In other words, Dipoto has seen plenty of this guy.

* He is a free agent coming off of a career year. His career year also fell off a cliff in the last two months of the season when he only had 15 RBI in his last 50 games.

* He turns 32 in February. Most GMs will see Profar for what he is: a once highly-touted prospect who never lived up to the hype. Coming off a career year but otherwise an average defender with average speed and average power, coming off an anomalous season triggered by a desire for one last big contract, and entering the career decline era of his career.

Unfortunately he really sounds like a Dipoto guy. 3 years/$57 million.

What really sucks is Profar would’ve been a perfect bargain basement deal last offseason. But god forbid they block Canzone

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

100% disagree. The entire point of the PA is for the collective not the individual. While it hasn’t exactly been for the collective, they are at a cross roads where the “whole” outnumbers the guys who are reaping the profits and can outvote them.

That's the point. The MLBPA is looking out for all their players for these pay raises and now most if not all deferred money at retirement. What Ohtani did this off-season will allow someone down the line to do the same. The MLB has to fight that and put a percentage of that contract that's deferred or else it'll be the same top 6 teams and people will get bored and lose viewership outside those markets.

 

[wazzu31]

That's the point. The MLBPA is looking out for all their players for these pay raises and now most if not all deferred money at retirement. What Ohtani did this off-season will allow someone down the line to do the same. The MLB has to fight that and put a percentage of that contract that's deferred or else it'll be the same top 6 teams and people will get bored and lose viewership outside those markets.

But what I’m saying is that deferring money isn’t good for the union/players. If you get a 5/100 million dollar deal, you want that 100 within the 5 years. Deferring the money helps the owners and screws the CBT.

MLB does need to do something but not sure what they can do. No way are the Mariners or other “poor” teams going to rock the boat against the big market teams. This just seems like it is headed for a horrible CBA fight which sadly I’m not sure how that is going to play out cause baseball struggled badly after the 94 strike. And since then the owners have done the lockouts or were played the villain in the media. Not sure how the PA can spin a positive PR spin on it.

 

[NWinAZ]

But what I’m saying is that deferring money isn’t good for the union/players. If you get a 5/100 million dollar deal, you want that 100 within the 5 years. Deferring the money helps the owners and screws the CBT.

MLB does need to do something but not sure what they can do. No way are the Mariners or other “poor” teams going to rock the boat against the big market teams. This just seems like it is headed for a horrible CBA fight which sadly I’m not sure how that is going to play out cause baseball struggled badly after the 94 strike. And since then the owners have done the lockouts or were played the villain in the media. Not sure how the PA can spin a positive PR spin on it.

Remember this isn't anything new. Bonilla and Griffey are still getting paid or at least Bonilla was as of a couple years ago. I think there are several other lesser retired players getting paid still as well. Just the numbers are bigger. Merrifield was on a talk show and he liked it. Said Dodgers are just using what is allowed by baseball. Players only care that the money keeps growing. Nobody wants to stop this or the ridiculous payrolls.

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[wazzu31]

Remember this isn't anything new. Bonilla and Griffey are still getting paid or at least Bonilla was as of a couple years ago. I think there are several other lesser retired players getting paid still as well. Just the numbers are bigger. Merrifield was on a talk show and he liked it. Said Dodgers are just using what is allowed by baseball. Players only care that the money keeps growing. Nobody wants to stop this or the ridiculous payrolls.

I may be in the minority on this opinion but it just is against the PA’s stability to start having players sign 5 year deals but they are really 15 year deals primarily it is because the CBT. It is gifting money to the owners. I also think it is bad for the individual player unless they are a Soto or Ohtani where the inflation wouldn’t affect them and they have huge endorsement deals. Merrifield would be the perfect guy to prove my point if it actually could happen. This isn’t even PA related but let’s just say Whit signed a 2/40 but deferred it turning it into a 10 year. Sure he will still be collecting 2 million at the end but, not saying it’s worthless but his purchasing power is much less. It is 100% better to get your money upfront and invest it. Go buy property, invest in the stock market, go buy a new house or a new car where his 20 million a year is much better.

 

[NWinAZ]

I may be in the minority on this opinion but it just is against the PA’s stability to start having players sign 5 year deals but they are really 15 year deals primarily it is because the CBT. It is gifting money to the owners. I also think it is bad for the individual player unless they are a Soto or Ohtani where the inflation wouldn’t affect them and they have huge endorsement deals. Merrifield would be the perfect guy to prove my point if it actually could happen. This isn’t even PA related but let’s just say Whit signed a 2/40 but deferred it turning it into a 10 year. Sure he will still be collecting 2 million at the end but, not saying it’s worthless but his purchasing power is much less. It is 100% better to get your money upfront and invest it. Go buy property, invest in the stock market, go buy a new house or a new car where his 20 million a year is much better.

The main reason for the players to do this as I understand is for tax reasons. Ohtani would get killed with California taxes if he took the money now. If he takes it down the road after he retires, he can move to Japan and not pay the tax (at least the California tax). Snell can take it after he moves back to Washington in retirement and avoid it as well. Win-win.

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[wazzu31]

The main reason for the players to do this as I understand is for tax reasons. Ohtani would get killed with California taxes if he took the money now. If he takes it down the road after he retires, he can move to Japan and not pay the tax (at least the California tax). Snell can take it after he moves back to Washington in retirement and avoid it as well. Win-win.

I guess I could see taxes being an argument but I think that is massively shortsided. Even with Snell, if he did it this way he still will lose out on money because his non income taxed earnings are still going to be worth less while he is collecting it instead of sucking up on the taxes and investing it. This of course is just all my opinion I just think deferring money is only good for the owners. It makes sense for someone like Ohtani but from what I read he is making more money on endorsements than his yearly salary. That isn’t the norm