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Mike Shanahan

Sportster 72

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I also listened to Cooley and the Czabe today. I didn't pay that much attention to Czabe's CDS theory although it had some merit and as Cooley said you can apply that to every coach in the league.

Cooley made a lot of football points dealing with startedgy and execution. He talked about the route trees the team uses and how he feels they should be more complicated. Especially in man to man and third down situations. He said he felt the reason they weren't more complicated was the coaches don't feel the line can hold up long enough for the more time consuming routes.

He later came back to the passing game and talked about what the team needs to do and who is most capable. He feels that Jordan Reed is the best man to man route runner on the team and should be exploited more. He said Hankerson has the best release off the line and was the next most effective receiver against man to man. Garcon is the third best agaisnt man. He said that the guys weren't getting open enough against man and when they do Robert was missing them.

Cooley didn't point out who the best against the zone is but I would think Moss is near the top of the list there. He did say the Skins hadn't been very good against zone because the routes take longer to develop and the line has not been holding up long enough.

I listened to Niles Paul, Bryan Kehl and John Keim talk about STs. Brian thinks the young guys playing ST in the league don't put as much value in it as veteran players. When asked if the team was buying in the Burns coaching Paul said they were starting to but haven't fully bought in. Keim said he talked to some players who also said they hadn't fully bought into Burns system. He said those players were starting to but had not completely taken to the coaching.

I don't know how many of you actually live in the Washington DC area but Cooley is worth the listen. He really knows the game and he is good at explaining it. We can all learn more about the game from him.
 

Krusheasy

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I don't know how many of you actually live in the Washington DC area but Cooley is worth the listen. He really knows the game and he is good at explaining it. We can all learn more about the game from him.

Can also listen via the audio vault. Worth a listen during gameday also. He is very quick & astute with his observations. I loved Sam, but Cooely is a major upgrade in the booth.
 

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I also listened to Cooley and the Czabe today. I didn't pay that much attention to Czabe's CDS theory although it had some merit and as Cooley said you can apply that to every coach in the league.

Cooley made a lot of football points dealing with startedgy and execution. He talked about the route trees the team uses and how he feels they should be more complicated. Especially in man to man and third down situations. He said he felt the reason they weren't more complicated was the coaches don't feel the line can hold up long enough for the more time consuming routes.

He later came back to the passing game and talked about what the team needs to do and who is most capable. He feels that Jordan Reed is the best man to man route runner on the team and should be exploited more. He said Hankerson has the best release off the line and was the next most effective receiver against man to man. Garcon is the third best agaisnt man. He said that the guys weren't getting open enough against man and when they do Robert was missing them.

Cooley didn't point out who the best against the zone is but I would think Moss is near the top of the list there. He did say the Skins hadn't been very good against zone because the routes take longer to develop and the line has not been holding up long enough.

I listened to Niles Paul, Bryan Kehl and John Keim talk about STs. Brian thinks the young guys playing ST in the league don't put as much value in it as veteran players. When asked if the team was buying in the Burns coaching Paul said they were starting to but haven't fully bought in. Keim said he talked to some players who also said they hadn't fully bought into Burns system. He said those players were starting to but had not completely taken to the coaching.

I don't know how many of you actually live in the Washington DC area but Cooley is worth the listen. He really knows the game and he is good at explaining it. We can all learn more about the game from him.


Thanks Sportster. These are some excellent insights into the team. I am out in The Central Coast, Cali and have to listen via the Internet radio to DC stations for Skins coverage. I think Cooley is excellent at breakdowns and missed today's discussion. I will listen to it tomorrow on the audio vault.

Funny story if you ever listen to Kevin Sheehan on 980. I went to high school with him back in the day. Super guy and great break downs from him as well.
 

Caliskinsfan

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Can also listen via the audio vault. Worth a listen during gameday also. He is very quick & astute with his observations. I loved Sam, but Cooely is a major upgrade in the booth.

Hey Krush, you'd get a laugh at me on game day. I'm all decked out in my skins gear.... I listen to 980 via "audio now" through my smart phone, so I can access local commentary and discussion, while watching in my favorite sports bar. Die hard and living in wine and ranch country. My bartender cracks up at me. Unbelievably, he is a Redskin fan!? We must be the only two where I live. I'm surrounded by, Niners, Raiders and Chargers fans for the most part.
 

Sportster 72

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I like Sheehan also but don't get to listen to him much anymore. We as fans don't really know what is going on, so much happens at the line of scrimmage. Line protections get changed, there are hot reads and audibles etc. i know the game from the HS and a little D2 level but the pro game adds so much more. Having Cooley around around to explain what is happening and where the mistakes is fun.
 

Caliskinsfan

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Agree that Cooley adds a lot of value to the analysis. Plus, he simplifies things and is good at explaining schemes and player thinking. It helps that he is not far removed from the team and was on the team during so many years of disfunction. He gets it. And he understands DC fans and mentality regarding the team and its record and rivalries. I like that he's frank with his opinions and not afraid to speak out about touchy subjects. He's obviously a huge fan of Snyder, but he hasn't let that dominate his commentary.
 

Sportster 72

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Agree that Cooley adds a lot of value to the analysis. Plus, he simplifies things and is good at explaining schemes and player thinking. It helps that he is not far removed from the team and was on the team during so many years of disfunction. He gets it. And he understands DC fans and mentality regarding the team and its record and rivalries. I like that he's frank with his opinions and not afraid to speak out about touchy subjects. He's obviously a huge fan of Snyder, but he hasn't let that dominate his commentary.

All very true comments.

I get all geeked up for the games too. I added a white Kerrigan jersey to my collection this year. This is my 50th year being a Redskin fan. My parents moved us from Philly to the DC area in 1963. Before jerseys were popular the way they are now I got a Larry Brown jersey. He was my favorite player. I wore it until I pretty much wore the number off of it. In high school I wore his number. My nephews have gone to the same school all these years later. I had a jersey made up of my old high school jersey that i wear to the games. An almost 60 year old running back. LOL Luckily for the kids they do all the playing now. The youngest is a senior now and also a RB. Next year I will have to split my time between going to two different college games.

I don't know about the rest of you but when people start talking about coaching changes I think of all the poor decisions made over the last 15 years. Zorn, Spurrier and worst of all Vinny. I do believe that Shanahan has been hamstrung by one thing after another but I also realize he can't coach forever. Really his record has not been good. I see a lot of positives in what he has done but I see the negatives too. I am afraid of what the next experiment might be and who might end up here. I'd like to see Shanahan get one more year with no cap penalties, strike shortened camps etc.

I don't know if I even like the zone blocking scheme. It's great when it works but Keim was right. Powerful lines can push around our smaller mobile lineman. We see it all of the time or maybe better said from time to time. I know after watching Gruden on TV I don't want him to coach here and Cowher has been out long enough that I don't want to see him here either. No matter what happens with Mike Shanahan I don't want to be the guinea pig for Kyle. Do you have faith that they will find a good coach? I'd like to see Bruce Allen stay.

In 1991 I thought Super Bowls were a birth right and common place. I am not getting any younger and I'd like to see another.
 

j_y19

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Sportster, we have a lot in common. Like you, I basically grew up in the area, played in the area and went on to play at higher levels. I've since watched my son do the same. I've also been a fan for a long time, remember the Billy vs Sonny days? How about Pat Fisher? What a little stud he was. Ron McDole, the Dancing Bear?

Anyway, I whole heartedly agree with your sentiments about the a coaching change. Shanahan has done some good things here, he has brought professionalism, and righted a severely damaged ship. I also understand that every year, he has had some sort of off season issue, albeit a lock out, or cap sanctions, etc. The problems I am having is, as SoCal stated, the things that he can control are still not fixed. Stupid penalties, clock management issues, questionable play calling and schemes. He never takes any responsibility or admits mistakes. I don't care who you are, if you see your boss making mistakes and brushing them aside, pretty soon you are doing the same thing as no one seems to care. This team is now his. There are only 2 or 3 players left on this roster from the Zorn days. The cap penalty sanctions are also his (and Allen's). They made a calculated risk that they would go against the unwritten wishes of the League and it came back and bit them in the ass. I'm not saying the League was right, but they miscalculated what the damages would be.

But the bottom line is wins. And in this area, he is not doing well. What's worse is that at times still 4 years later, we are not even competitive. But you can't just fire him without knowing who your replacement is. And firing him mid season is stupid and serves no purpose other than to completely destroy this team and season. I say let the season play out and see how he finishes. Then hold him accountable. For example, if the defense is still in the bottom 10, require a specific plan to address it, including options of coaching and scheme changes and an explanation of why these changes would make the team better and why they haven't been implemented before. Then I see what's out there. Gruden isn't coming back, he is in heaven. I don't see any of the ex coaches now doing TV coming back. They all have great gigs and basically get 1/2 year off. I evaluate the top assistants and college coaches. Basically, I lay out all my options. In the end, we may find that Shanahan is still the right guy and we truly are just a few piece parts away from regaining our footing. But, for me, the bottom line is that if we continue on our current trajectory ( and we may very well be 1-7 after the next 3 weeks) no way does he just "get a pass" for his 5th year.
 

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Until recently the general consensus was that Shanahan would turn the reigns over to his son when he stepped down. Barring a major turnaround (this year or next) I have a hard time seeing that happen.

If/when they get rid of Shanahan (assuming a negative situation) I would not mind seeing Allen retained & having him choose a GM type (would like to see personnel decisions by true GM type & not a coach) & then the two of them choose the next coach (preferably an up & coming younger NFL asst).

Of course - I would love to see none of this happen & the team turn things around this year or next.
 

j_y19

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I do, but am booked for saturday. I actually see Pat a few times a year, he lives in the area. What is amazing is how small he is and how tough he was. He is no more that 5'7" and 140lbs soaking wet. Yet he had to cover Harold Carmichael, who was 6-8 220+ lbs. And he held his own.
 

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I do, but am booked for saturday. I actually see Pat a few times a year, he lives in the area. What is amazing is how small he is and how tough he was. He is no more that 5'7" and 140lbs soaking wet. Yet he had to cover Harold Carmichael, who was 6-8 220+ lbs. And he held his own.

Yep although he probably would have a really tough time now playing that style with the current rules. Have not seen pictures of him lately, but I am willing to bet that Daryl Grant is 3-4 x bigger than Fisher right now. :)
 

skinsdad62

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as of now we are heading to an unthinkable 4-12 debacle

do you keep him with that record ?
 

Krusheasy

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as of now we are heading to an unthinkable 4-12 debacle

do you keep him with that record ?

As the article says, Mike is going to want an extension before year 5. Ideally we could look back and see how Mike improved the team each year. But instead we take two steps forward & one step back each season, which is why it's so difficult to buy in. Realistically we would have a single winning record during his term, & none without Griffins heroics.

Do not envy the tuff decision Dan has to make.
 
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Caliskinsfan

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If they did give him a contract extension at the end of the year, it'd be likely to be only for an extra year. You don't want to have a "lame duck" for a coach. You saw how that worked out for the Nationals...

Regardless, there has to be extra scrutiny and a serious evaluation of the year and methodology, before a contract extension should be granted. If the season ends up with only 4 wins, who knows what would happen? I believe we will get more than 4 wins. Also, there has to be a good option for a replacement. I'm not a proponent of Cowher or Gruden. They are both too far removed from the game, IMO.

Don't forget, when we first hired Shanny, he was promised 5 years to turn the franchise around. We're not there yet. End of the season will give good evidence of where the team as a whole is heading.
 

gkekoa

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STs on the season

81 yard punt return for a TD against CHI.
Onside kick recovered by CHI.

86 yard punt return for a TD against DAL.
90 yard kick return against DAL.

Blocked punt by OAK for a TD.


Sav Rocca is ranked 33rd in average punt distance, 33rd in average NET, and 33rd in average return.
Kai Forbath is dead last in FG% at 60.
Potter was 3/4.
Combined we would be 29th in the NFL.

Chris Thompson is dead last in kickoff return average. Josh Morgan if he qualified would be 2nd to last.
Our longest kick return is 28 yards by Christ Thompson. That is 38th in the NFL.

Moss has one punt return for 9 yards and that average would be good for 15th; however, our team average is 4.8 which is 39th in the NFL.
Our longest punt return is 11 yards and that's 38th in the NFL.

Let me sum this up in team averages:
FG %- 29th
NET Punt- 32nd
Punt Return Average- 27th
Kick Return Average- 30th
 

Caliskinsfan

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Now that s..t is flat out depressing. I refuse to think about this for at least 24 hours. I'm too busy enjoying our win.
 

mHeady

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Kai is a great kicker. our ST's sucks tho.
 

gkekoa

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I agree that Kai is better than his 60% but he has to get healthy, we have to get better, and Sav needs to go.
 
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