Mike Shanahan

[SoCalWizFan]

This is what a bunch of fans do here. They designate a coach to fire after each loss. A couple of weeks ago it was Haslett. Then the defense cleans it's game up after a couple of weeks so now it's the Shanahans. I LMAO when I see bad play calling ... how much do you know about play calling? I'd guess very little.

I agree that Mike didn't manage the clock well. It didn't cost the team the game though. Poor special teams play and Robert holding the ball too long cost the team. Kehl and Paulsen weren't playing STs at that point. Alexander is gone because the team has an 16 million dollar penalty and couldn't afford him. Are you going to blame the coach for Robinson's dropped TD pass?

This team has played at 80% capacity of every other team in the league the past two years. Their starting QB is coming off of major knee reconstruction and trying to find the game he had last year.

Some people say "look what Andy Reid" did but Andy walked into talent and had the money to either keep players or acquire players. In all fairness Mike has not had ONE normal season yet. His first year was the uncapped year which ended up meaning you could only acquire older free agents. Second year was the strike year and the last two he has had to build a team with 16 million dollars less than every other team. One of those years he won the division. But you lose a couple of games because you don't have the resources to go get any better OL or you can't afford to keep guys who would be good ST players and it's FIRE the coach.

In two weeks the team will play Denver and it will be FIRE Haslett time again.

Can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly am not calling for Shanahan's head right now & am trying to look at this situation objectively. If you look at things objectively and get off the "it is all the player's fault" take every time then you have to consider replacing coaches as an option - if not this season then at least during the offseason.

Try to view this from a non-Redskins fan perspective or as an objective stakeholder. As I mentioned in my reply - Shanahan has done a lot of good things with this organization that I applaud. However - there have also been some negatives & if they really tank this season you have to consider the options. Barring some major failure (e.g. 4-12 or worse) I believe he is safe through next season. If they are not in the playoffs in that season (barring catastrophic injuries) he has to go - period.

As for Haslett - I don't apologize for suggesting replacing him. They have shown some progress over time & yes they have been impacted by cap penalties but again I ask what has he really accomplished in 4 years with this team? At this point I am fine with him remaining through the season & won't mind if he is replaced at the end of the year.

As for the special teams coach - barring a miracle where the special teams recover (don't see it -hope I am wrong) - that is a no brainer! That guy has to go - certainly at the end of the year. Unlike offense & defense I believe that special teams are much more a product of coaching especially in terms of covering and blocking for punts and kickoffs.

As always - the truth is in the middle. It is a product of bad coaching and players not producing. They need to take a hard look at both areas during the next few offseasons and adjust accordingly. As for this season - they can do whatever they like since I don't really have much hope at this time (would love to be proven wrong).

BTW - we are fans so please don't act so high and mighty about all of this. As fans - sure - we make mistakes and probably pass judgement (incorrectly at times). Big deal - it happens - it is a product of frustration.

HTTR

 

[skinz2winz]

Can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly am not calling for Shanahan's head right now & am trying to look at this situation objectively. If you look at things objectively and get off the "it is all the player's fault" take every time then you have to consider replacing coaches as an option - if not this season then at least during the offseason.

Try to view this from a non-Redskins fan perspective or as an objective stakeholder. As I mentioned in my reply - Shanahan has done a lot of good things with this organization that I applaud. However - there have also been some negatives & if they really tank this season you have to consider the options. Barring some major failure (e.g. 4-12 or worse) I believe he is safe through next season. If they are not in the playoffs in that season (barring catastrophic injuries) he has to go - period.

As for Haslett - I don't apologize for suggesting replacing him. They have shown some progress over time & yes they have been impacted by cap penalties but again I ask what has he really accomplished in 4 years with this team? At this point I am fine with him remaining through the season & won't mind if he is replaced at the end of the year.

As for the special teams coach - barring a miracle where the special teams recover (don't see it -hope I am wrong) - that is a no brainer! That guy has to go - certainly at the end of the year. Unlike offense & defense I believe that special teams are much more a product of coaching especially in terms of covering and blocking for punts and kickoffs.

As always - the truth is in the middle. It is a product of bad coaching and players not producing. They need to take a hard look at both areas during the next few offseasons and adjust accordingly. As for this season - they can do whatever they like since I don't really have much hope at this time (would love to be proven wrong).

BTW - we are fans so please don't act so high and mighty about all of this. As fans - sure - we make mistakes and probably pass judgement (incorrectly at times). Big deal - it happens - it is a product of frustration.

HTTR

Nice post SoCal!

 

[j_y19]

Can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly am not calling for Shanahan's head right now & am trying to look at this situation objectively. If you look at things objectively and get off the "it is all the player's fault" take every time then you have to consider replacing coaches as an option - if not this season then at least during the offseason.

Try to view this from a non-Redskins fan perspective or as an objective stakeholder. As I mentioned in my reply - Shanahan has done a lot of good things with this organization that I applaud. However - there have also been some negatives & if they really tank this season you have to consider the options. Barring some major failure (e.g. 4-12 or worse) I believe he is safe through next season. If they are not in the playoffs in that season (barring catastrophic injuries) he has to go - period.

As for Haslett - I don't apologize for suggesting replacing him. They have shown some progress over time & yes they have been impacted by cap penalties but again I ask what has he really accomplished in 4 years with this team? At this point I am fine with him remaining through the season & won't mind if he is replaced at the end of the year.

As for the special teams coach - barring a miracle where the special teams recover (don't see it -hope I am wrong) - that is a no brainer! That guy has to go - certainly at the end of the year. Unlike offense & defense I believe that special teams are much more a product of coaching especially in terms of covering and blocking for punts and kickoffs.

As always - the truth is in the middle. It is a product of bad coaching and players not producing. They need to take a hard look at both areas during the next few offseasons and adjust accordingly. As for this season - they can do whatever they like since I don't really have much hope at this time (would love to be proven wrong).

BTW - we are fans so please don't act so high and mighty about all of this. As fans - sure - we make mistakes and probably pass judgement (incorrectly at times). Big deal - it happens - it is a product of frustration.

HTTR

I also want to be clear. While I am very disappointed in this team and the coaching staff, i also am not calling for their heads at this point as it would make no sense. I think they get the rest of the season. See how the team reacts. But if we finish in the 4-6 win range, serious thought needs to be given about a change. That's 4 years and the team is no better. That is enough time. Zorn got 4 wins and he was way in over his head.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Voice of reason SoCal. Always enjoy your viewpoint and can't say I've ever disagreed from your take.

IMO, consistency with coaching also plays a part. There can be no long term success with a revolving door. We've see that in the past with this franchise. It's too soon to pull the trigger with Shanny or Haslett. And getting rid of any coach during the season is poor for morale and the locker room, unless the coach is a cancer. That doesn't appear to have happened.

Don't know what to think about the ST coach. Maybe there is a shorter leash there, given no proven track record, but it still seems a very sample size to me.

 

[gkekoa]

We have been starting two rookies in the secondary this season. Very seldom does this not bite you early.

RG3 is having a sophomore slump and it's not just a normal slump...he's coming back from a major knee injury.

The OL is slumping because RG3 hasn't been RG3, yet. He made them better last year and it masked deficiencies.

Mike and Kyle are having issues using RG3 this season because they are trying to protect him both mentally and physically. After watching the Dallas game, physical protection is no longer on the menu. They over ran him this game.

 

[Sportster 72]

Lots of good posts. Keith Burns actually has a track record. Instead of just saying fire the coach why not look into it. Please don't mistake that for an I support Keith Burns. I wanted to fire him on the punt return too.

I agree that time management under Shanahan has never been very good. I agree that it certainly seems like penalties should lessen. I believe we all said that last year and when the team started to win they did commit less penalties. I'll say the same thing this year as I said last year, if you tear it all apart now there will be two to three years of rebuilding again. Then next year everyone can call for the new HC or DC to be fired.

When you look at the season certainly Philly and Green Bay blew the Redskins out. Change two plays in the Detroit game and three plays in the Dallas game and this is a 3-2 team instead of a 1-4 team. All five of those plays were due to lack of execution. Dropped ball, forced pass into a pic, penalty on a punt, poor kick return coverage, fumble on the 15 yard line.

If the team only wins 4 or 5 games this year it's likely Shanahan may not get that 5th year. I think the team is close but they need Griffin to fully recover and they need that money they are missing from the salary cap to fill in the holes.

 

[j_y19]

Sportser, only disagreement is with a 2-3 yr rebuilding effort if we change coaches. What is different is any new coach is inheriting some key talent. Shanny didn't. On offense, we have RG3, Morris, Garcon, Williams, and Reed. That's a hell of a nucleus to field a team with and every critical position on offense is set. On D, we have Kerrigan, Riley, Amerson, Cofield, Orakpo (assuming we franchise tag him or re-sign him) and a couple of rookie Safety potentials. Again, not a bad start. In fact, now that I list this talent out, it really makes me question the coaching. Yes, RG3 is still recovering. I get that. It has had an effect. But you mention a few plays that could have turned our season around. Good teams make those plays. Good teams always start with good coaching. Critical looks at the coaching at this point is warranted.

 

[Sportster 72]

Sportser, only disagreement is with a 2-3 yr rebuilding effort if we change coaches. What is different is any new coach is inheriting some key talent. Shanny didn't. On offense, we have RG3, Morris, Garcon, Williams, and Reed. That's a hell of a nucleus to field a team with and every critical position on offense is set. On D, we have Kerrigan, Riley, Amerson, Cofield, Orakpo (assuming we franchise tag him or re-sign him) and a couple of rookie Safety potentials. Again, not a bad start. In fact, now that I list this talent out, it really makes me question the coaching. Yes, RG3 is still recovering. I get that. It has had an effect. But you mention a few plays that could have turned our season around. Good teams make those plays. Good teams always start with good coaching. Critical looks at the coaching at this point is warranted.

Have it your way j_y, your fix has always been to fire a coach. Who acquired all those guys you just listed .... while having to field a team with $32 million less than everyone else. Why have any continuity when you can get a new coach every year. Hell you can even get Gruden or Cowher.

 

[j_y19]

Hey sportster, pull your head out of your ass and point to one post where I said to fire Shanahan. What I said it is it is time for a critical look at the staff. But I guess as long as we can win a game or 2, he should be held in high regard? Making the same mistakes year after year shouldn't be questioned?

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Lots of good posts. Keith Burns actually has a track record. Instead of just saying fire the coach why not look into it. Please don't mistake that for an I support Keith Burns. I wanted to fire him on the punt return too.

I agree that time management under Shanahan has never been very good. I agree that it certainly seems like penalties should lessen. I believe we all said that last year and when the team started to win they did commit less penalties. I'll say the same thing this year as I said last year, if you tear it all apart now there will be two to three years of rebuilding again. Then next year everyone can call for the new HC or DC to be fired.

When you look at the season certainly Philly and Green Bay blew the Redskins out. Change two plays in the Detroit game and three plays in the Dallas game and this is a 3-2 team instead of a 1-4 team. All five of those plays were due to lack of execution. Dropped ball, forced pass into a pic, penalty on a punt, poor kick return coverage, fumble on the 15 yard line.

If the team only wins 4 or 5 games this year it's likely Shanahan may not get that 5th year. I think the team is close but they need Griffin to fully recover and they need that money they are missing from the salary cap to fill in the holes.

These are always tough decisions. You like to have continuity in coaching, and this has been a sore spot for the Skins in the past. However - you have to look at the overall results & you don't keep coaches around forever unless they start making deep playoff runs on a fairly regular basis.

Things appeared to be right on schedule until the beginning of this season. Now - the Redskins have taken a step back for numerous reasons - some outside of their control but others that fall under their control. I can accept a sub-par record because of factors outside their control (salary cap sanctions, RG3's rehab, etc).

What is hard to accept are the factors that they should be able to control - penalties, clock mgmt, special teams gaffs, etc. These are very troubling & certainly reflect coaching to a degree. There is no reason why coaches should not be evaluated just as players are evaluated. You then balance their overall grade against the need for continuity.

I think Shanahan will be back next season as long as they don't have a disastrous season (e.g. 5-11 or worse - it would be fair to consider replacing him if that happened). However - no reason to not believe that it would be reasonable to replace some of the assts.

Burns was an asst ST coach for several years. Perhaps he is not up to the task of being the lead ST coach - we will see. Again - I don't think you can place most of the blame on this one on the players - this guy has to step up or else risk his job. This is all part of life in the NFL.

Continuity is one thing. However - it doesn't mean guaranteeing that a coach should be locked into his job for 10 years. The bottom line is playoff success & that needs to come at some point in spite of any obstacles. It may not be fair, but it is reality. Also - as I pointed out previously - at whatever point Shanahan is replaced they should not go with someone like Gruden or Cowher. These type of coaches generally have very poor track records in subsequent jobs.

I just wish that we didn't need to keep talking about these type of subjects. Longing for talking about wins again - even if the joy is temporary. HTTR

 

[Krusheasy]

tweets from Wed presser

15m[/ame] Amerson (concussion) was limited. No side effects after practice, according to Shanahan. [URL="[MEDIA=twitter]390558809561001985[/MEDIA]"]16m[/ame]
[URL="[MEDIA=twitter]390559373564850176[/MEDIA]"]15m[/ame]
[URL="[MEDIA=twitter]390559597129646081[/MEDIA]"]15m[/ame]
Shanahan said some people are overreacting to special teams troubles from Dallas game but kickoff coverage needs to improve [URL="[MEDIA=twitter]390560062466318336[/MEDIA]"]13m[/ame]
[URL="[MEDIA=twitter]390560705092784128[/MEDIA]"]11m[/ame]
Mike Shanahan on Niles Paul's comments about Keith Burns: Says it is common for a new coach to have to earn trust from his players.


[URL="[MEDIA=twitter]390561027601235968[/MEDIA]"]10m[/ame]
Mike Shanahan takes back his comments that this team needs a Lorenzo Alexander...he says Reed Doughty is trying to do that. [URL="[MEDIA=twitter]390561780528726016[/MEDIA]"]7m[/ame]
[URL="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Redskins&src=hash"]#Redskins Mike Shanahan "We missed the handoff on a draw." Explained some of the other miscommunications . Very interesting.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

15m Amerson (concussion) was limited. No side effects after practice, according to Shanahan. 15m
Shanahan said some people are overreacting to special teams troubles from Dallas game but kickoff coverage needs to improve #RedskinsTalk

Is he for real? The team loses by 16 and 14 of those are the direct result of poor special teams play (not to mention a non-existent return game for the entire season) and "people are overreacting". Whatever you say Mike.

He would be better off saying nothing in this case.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Shanny really is unparalleled in gaffes when dealing with the media. Not to mention, as a fan, he is losing credibility daily.

Hubris from a coach is NOT a good characteristic for a fan base that reveres the qualties Joe Gibbs brought to the table in terms of character and humility and honesty. Very frustrating.

Man up if you make a mistake or a specific area of the team needs to get better. This type of shilly shally comment just infuriates people and does him no favors. He continues to put himself in a position to get crucified and criticized with these type of comments. Does he think fans and the Media are stupid? Sometimes it seems he does.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

IS it possible Shanny thinks "some people are over reacting" because during the special teams failures, kehl got knocked out for the season on the one run back? Does anyone know if Amerson and/or Sundberg in a position to stop either run back when they were injured? Could this possibly be what he is implying?

I know I'm reaching, but just trying to figure out where he is coming from with this remark because it's so unbelievable.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

IS it possible Shanny thinks "some people are over reacting" because during the special teams failures, kehl got knocked out for the season on the one run back? Does anyone know if Amerson and/or Sundberg in a position to stop either run back when they were injured? Could this possibly be what he is implying?

I know I'm reaching, but just trying to figure out where he is coming from with this remark because it's so unbelievable.

Perhaps. On ES someone made a good pt about the pt return for a TD. It came right after a penalty so the team was already somewhat winded. Quite possibly they should have punted away from the guy. I assume that they have enough common sense to not make the same mistake against Hester.

Why is so tough just to admit that someone (player or coach) made a mistake? Where is the passion? I know this isn't the case, but it almost appears as if a lot of people in the organization don't really care which is odd coming off last year. When this keep happening it kind of makes a lot of the fan base feel indifferent. I know that I am starting to feel that way (less angry & more like - oh well - expectations are low anyhow).

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Perhaps. On ES someone made a good pt about the pt return for a TD. It came right after a penalty so the team was already somewhat winded. Quite possibly they should have punted away from the guy. I assume that they have enough common sense to not make the same mistake against Hester.

Why is so tough just to admit that someone (player or coach) made a mistake? Where is the passion? I know this isn't the case, but it almost appears as if a lot of people in the organization don't really care which is odd coming off last year. When this keep happening it kind of makes a lot of the fan base feel indifferent. I know that I am starting to feel that way (less angry & more like - oh well - expectations are low anyhow).

They definitly needed to punt out of bounds or elsewhere. It was the height of stupidity, everyone know this. Shanny will never say that tho.

IMO, it's not about passion it's about how Mike is wired. He is not wired to speak about his football decisions with any transparency. He disdains the media, and unlike Belicheck, he is not winning on the field, so he cannot continue with this style of pressers. He MUST adjust his style of addressing things. I doubt it though. He is what he is. This will lead to more problems and will weigh into the possible end of his tenure at the end of this or next year, if the team proceeds to exhibit a total lack of execution.

Fans understandably become numb after so many years of disappointing seasons. Luckily, this fan base has seen worse and will weather this situation as we have others. There are many solid fans of this team. It is simply sheer frustration and i can understand it.

Its the over reactions of " blowing up everything" that gets to me. And the calls for replacing or trading Griff. This is the height of stupidity in my mind. Have we forgotten how important a franchise QB is to a team after so many poor choices in the past? Are we so enamored as a society of gratification NOW, that we can no longer look at the big picture? Havent we learned yet, that it NEVER works well when an organization acts in a knee jerk fashion? For some fans, this is the case. I'm too old school to fall into that pattern. Don't take this to mean that I'm not frustrated as hell by this season! I am. I absolutely loathe what is going on right now.


In a bizarre way, it's not a bad thing to have lower expectations about this team. We, as a fanbase need to rely on what we see on the field, not buy into hype and ridiculous expectations. You cant look at what a team looks like on paper ( ourselves or OTHER teams) and determine what is going to happen on the field. There is not that much difference between teams in the NFL any given Sunday and noone knows what will happen in regards to health and execution for teams down the stretch. That may be an old fashioned way of looking at things, but it actually works.

 

[eamines]

@ SoCalWizFan & Caliskinsfan. You guys make some great points. I think this team is underachieving, in all phases of the game. I'm totally shocked, a Mike Shanahan coached team is so undisciplined. I really though the penalties,tackling, and blocking would improve, after preseason.

 

[Krusheasy]

Why is so tough just to admit that someone (player or coach) made a mistake?

It's the ego. Czabe & Cooley had a great conversation about this today. Should check it out when they upload it to their audio vault tomorrow. But they listed several times Mike's ego has come into play in him being unable to acknowledge a mistake.
ESPN 980 - WASHINGTON D.C.

Does he think fans and the Media are stupid? Sometimes it seems he does.

I've always respected Mike's football IQ and resume. But I've felt he thinks NFL fans are all idiots since he first got here. He can be very condescending with the media.

Does anyone know if Amerson and/or Sundberg in a position to stop either run back when they were injured? Could this possibly be what he is implying?
.

I did read Mike say Amerson would have been in position to stop the TD, cant remember if it was if he got hurt or because he took the wrong angle.
Cant remember where i read it tho.

 

[Sportster 72]

Hey sportster, pull your head out of your ass and point to one post where I said to fire Shanahan. What I said it is it is time for a critical look at the staff. But I guess as long as we can win a game or 2, he should be held in high regard? Making the same mistakes year after year shouldn't be questioned?

LMAO!!! You wounded me there.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

I just heard Shanny say that Kehl was in position to stop the run back for TD when he was injured. And that if that play was made, outlook on ST would've been different.

Maybe so,but that is not the narrative we are dealing with. Woulda, shoulda, coulda, I say. Where was everyone else? Just answer the question with, we failed and this was a mitigating factor, but still, we failed to execute... for gods sake... Infuriating.