Michael Sam ?

[clyde_carbon]

I don't think that's necessarily true. Someone had to be the first openly gay NFL player. Odds are very high that person would much prefer to just play football and not worry about his sexuality. But that's not the reality of the situation. Accepting the burden - and publicity/fame, admittedly - of being that first player does not necessarily mean you long for the attention you are receiving. It may just mean he doesn't want to constantly lie about/hide who he is. Or he may have consciously decided that he would shoulder the burden so others wouldn't have to. There are dozens of explanations for his decision that are not financially motivated. Obviously the financial piece is also a consideration, but it's far from the only one.

"I just want to be looked at as a football player"

And then and he goes and starts a bunch of promotional endeavors about him being a GAY football player?

Really? No inconsistencies in that?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

The inconsistency is that he's talking out of both sides of his mouth. If he just wanted to be looked at as a football player he wouldn't have come with the buttons and slogans. He wants to be treated like everyone else, yet he's the only player who was allowed to have his agent & publicist with him during the combine. He's completely full of crap.

Again, not necessarily. The media, most NFL players, most teams, and most fans view him as being different from every other current and legitimately aspiring NFL player. What he's saying is that he wishes he weren't viewed as being different, even while he clearly is. There is nothing inconsistent about that.

 

[TobyTyler]

The last pick should be him and then see if people avoid calling him Mr. Irrelevant, because his sexuality is oh so relevant.

Good one.

 

[TobyTyler]

The inconsistency is that he's talking out of both sides of his mouth. If he just wanted to be looked at as a football player he wouldn't have come with the buttons and slogans. He wants to be treated like everyone else, yet he's the only player who was allowed to have his agent & publicist with him during the combine. He's completely full of crap.

I agree. It seems very disingenuous

 

[Crimsoncrew]

"I just want to be looked at as a football player"

And then and he goes and starts a bunch of promotional endeavors about him being a GAY football player?

Really? No inconsistencies in that?

Not necessarily. It depends what he means with the statement above. For instance, he could mean: "I wish homosexuality was universally accepted and no one cared about it." Or: "I wish other openly gay players had come before me, so my coming out wasn't such a big deal." Or: "I wish I could just live my life without people reporting on who I date, but that's out of my control, and I have spoken to/heard about several closeted NFL players whose closeted lifestyle placed an enormous emotional and psychological burden on them."

He is a pioneer. He will become a symbol whether that was his primary motivation or not. Expressing his desire to be treated the same as everyone else can be separated from his acknowledgement that that is not a realistic hope/expectation.

Out of curiosity, do you guys think Jackie Robinson craved the attention he received? Do you think he just wanted to be a baseball player, even as he was clearly more than that?

 

[NinerSickness]

What he's saying is that he wishes he weren't viewed as being different, even while he clearly is.

HE'S THE ONE PERPETUATING THAT VIEW! If he just came in, answered some questions & did some drills like everyone else then people wouldn't view him as "Michael Sam the gay football player" as he put it. He'd just be another guy. He didn't do that.

This is like if Justin Beiber got arrested again & then complained on Twitter about all the bad press he gets.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

The inconsistency is that he's talking out of both sides of his mouth. If he just wanted to be looked at as a football player he wouldn't have come with the buttons and slogans. He wants to be treated like everyone else, yet he's the only player who was allowed to have his agent & publicist with him during the combine. He's completely full of crap.

Kind of said this in my posts below, but it's very easy for me to envision that he is making his statement in the hopes that others will join him. So that, perhaps within a generation, gay players will not be a big deal. That is not his reality. Acknowledging the reality of the situation, while expressing his hopes, doesn't make him a hypocrite IMO.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Not necessarily. It depends what he means with the statement above. For instance, he could mean: "I wish homosexuality was universally accepted and no one cared about it." Or: "I wish other openly gay players had come before me, so my coming out wasn't such a big deal." Or: "I wish I could just live my life without people reporting on who I date, but that's out of my control, and I have spoken to/heard about several closeted NFL players whose closeted lifestyle placed an enormous emotional and psychological burden on them."

He is a pioneer. He will become a symbol whether that was his primary motivation or not. Expressing his desire to be treated the same as everyone else can be separated from his acknowledgement that that is not a realistic hope/expectation.

Out of curiosity, do you guys think Jackie Robinson craved the attention he received? Do you think he just wanted to be a baseball player, even as he was clearly more than that?

Lol, mmk buddy.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

HE'S THE ONE PERPETUATING THAT VIEW! If he just came in, answered some questions & did some drills like everyone else then people wouldn't view him as "Michael Sam the gay football player" as he put it. He'd just be another guy. He didn't do that.

This is like if Justin Beiber got arrested again & then complained on Twitter about all the bad press he gets.

Why, because he wore a button? Or is it because he came out in the first place? It seems that the logic here is that he should have just shut up and remained closeted if he wanted to be treated the same as everyone else. That distorts the meaning behind his statement, at least as I read it.

Look, it is entirely possible that he struggled at the Senior Bowl. That his workouts weren't going well. And he and his team made a conscious decision to try to make some noise in any way they could. But it's at least as likely - and probably a great deal likelier - that he made this decision knowing that it was more likely to hurt him than to help him.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Lol, mmk buddy.

Address the Jackie Robinson question, Clyde.

 

[NinerSickness]

Why, because he wore a button?

Yes because he wore a button. And because of the "Stand with Sam" slogan. And because he brought his freeking publicist (not to mention his agent, which nobody else was allowed to do). He was acting like he was running a campaign not running drills.

That doesn't say "I'm no different than all these other guys."

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Yes because he wore a button. And because of the "Stand with Sam" slogan. And because he brought his freeking publicist (not to mention his agent, which nobody else was allowed to do). He was acting like he was running a campaign not running drills.

That doesn't say "I'm no different than all these other guys."

He's not saying he's no different. He's saying he is different, he just wishes he weren't.

As I asked of Clyde, address the Jackie Robinson analogy. Do you think Robinson would have preferred not to be the first black baseball player?

 

[NinerSickness]

He's not saying he's no different. He's saying he is different, he just wishes he weren't.

You lost me on what you're saying there. I see a guy purposely garnering attention and at the same time lamenting the attention he draws.

Do you think Robinson would have preferred not to be the first black baseball player?

I honestly have no idea. He wasn't the first black baseball player though; he was the first pro' black baseball player. A number of black men played baseball back then (a few still do even ). And he wanted to be a pro' baseball player, so there's that. Did he wish he weren't black?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I honestly have no idea. He wasn't the first black baseball player though; he was the first pro' black baseball player. A number of black men played baseball back then (a few still do even ). And he wanted to be a pro' baseball player, so there's that. Did he wish he weren't black?

I meant to say first black MLB player.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

He's not saying he's no different. He's saying he is different, he just wishes he weren't.

You lost me on what you're saying there. I see a guy purposely garnering attention and at the same time lamenting the attention he draws.

Again, let's look at civil rights marchers. They were attracting attention through their actions. I would imagine the vast majority - obviously with some exceptions - would have been absolutely satisfied to live in a world in which there was no racial inequality or segregation. "I am marching for civil rights, but I wish I didn't have to. I wish I was treated equally without having to take the public stand." I don't see an inherent inconsistency there. The same is true with the Jackie Robinson analogy.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I honestly have no idea. He wasn't the first black baseball player though; he was the first pro' black baseball player. A number of black men played baseball back then (a few still do even ). And he wanted to be a pro' baseball player, so there's that. Did he wish he weren't black?

I tried to add this in to my other post, but ran out of time to edit. The question isn't, "Did [Jackie Robinson] wish he weren't black?" The better question is, "Did [Jackie Robinson] wish that MLB had always included blacks, such that his involvement was viewed as mundane and not worthy of comment?" And I'd bet heavily that the answer to that question is yes. He drew attention to himself even as he wished he didn't have to, because he wished society at large accepted him. But that clearly was not the reality. I see this as being comparable.

 

[NinerSickness]

Again, let's look at civil rights marchers. They were attracting attention through their actions. I would imagine the vast majority - obviously with some exceptions - would have been absolutely satisfied to live in a world in which there was no racial inequality or segregation.

There's nothing inconsistent about Sam wanting to live in a world where people accept homosexuality (not while I'm alive). That's not my point. What's inconsistent is that he's lamenting the ATTENTION he's getting about the issue when he's the one who's actively garnering that attention.

Those civil rights marchers didn't lament the fact that people called 'em civil rights marchers. If they did they would've been full of crap.

"I don't want to be known as Joe the civil rights marcher; I just want to be known as plain old Joe. Now where can I put these fliers & signs I brough?"

 

[Crimsoncrew]

There's nothing inconsistent about Sam wanting to live in a world where people accept homosexuality (not while I'm alive). That's not my point. What's inconsistent is that he's lamenting the ATTENTION he's getting about the issue when he's the one who's actively garnering that attention.

Those civil rights marchers didn't lament the fact that people called 'em civil rights marchers. If they did they would've been full of crap.

"I don't want to be known as Joe the civil rights marcher; I just want to be known as Joe. Now where can I put these fliers & signs I brough?"

"I wish I didn't have to be Joe the civil rights marcher." That's the sentiment I believe Sam is getting at.

 

[NinerSickness]

"I wish I didn't have to be Joe the civil rights marcher." That's the sentiment I believe Sam is getting at.

You omitted the words "known as." Sam said "known as."

"I wish I didn't have to be KNOWN AS Joe the civil rights marcher." Anyone who says that while carrying a sign through a civil rights march is a tool.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

You omitted the words "known as." Sam said "known as."

"I wish I didn't have to be KNOWN AS Joe the civil rights marcher." Anyone who says that while carrying a sign through a civil rights march is a tool.

What's the difference? Sam doesn't think of himself as a gay football player. Everyone else does. Labels are often out of the hands of the actors.