Marvin Extended

[Cincyfan78]

I hear ya...bar not set that high for him, huh.

From seeing the Bengals...not every week like you guys do, but enough to feel like you have a pulse on the team...Idk how much more Lewis can do when the QB puts up 150 yds in a playoff game. Of course I'm not saying anything you haven't heard before.

Yeah, truly is a dmaned if you do, damned if you don't scenario.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Yeah, truly is a dmaned if you do, damned if you don't scenario.

Cincy has certainly been patient with Lewis...but when you hear fans in IND saying Pagano is in a make or break year, I go wtf! Really?

I think Lewis is doing well enough to keep his job.

Hell...some Steeler fans want to see Tomlin run out on a rail...a playoff appearance LY is the only thing squelching it...still in SB or bust mode, but PIT doesn't have SB or bust talent.

 

[cincygrad]

Tomlin is an interesting case..... I think a lot will be said about him based on his ability to rebuild the defense in Pittsburgh. There are tons of coaches that could have done just fine in his situation -- He had Lebeau's defense and one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL. He won with that talent and situation so you have to give him credit. But it will say a lot more about him in how he handles the new transition.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Cincy has certainly been patient with Lewis...but when you hear fans in IND saying Pagano is in a make or break year, I go wtf! Really?

I think Lewis is doing well enough to keep his job.

Hell...some Steeler fans want to see Tomlin run out on a rail...a playoff appearance LY is the only thing squelching it...still in SB or bust mode, but PIT doesn't have SB or bust talent.

Here's the thing, in a model franchise that values winning in the post season, everyone would expect a change at this point. Lewis has had his fair share of chances in getting a playoff victory, and should have at least 1, if not 2 or 3. They've played some vastly inferior teams in terms of QB play, or talent, but he's been out coached in nearly all of them. You could say the 1st year with a rookie QB/WR was house money, and last year in Indy wasn't going to be good without any WR's or offensive weapons, and a defense that was banged up all year long. The ones in the middle though, all of them were completely winnable.

The catch-22 comes in what I said in a devil's advocate post...does anyone trust this franchise to make the right moves needed to to secure a coach, and a staff, that can win in the post season? If this were Denver, Seattle, Pitt, etc...etc...the choice would have been made 2-3 years ago that Marvin did what he could, but another voice would be needed to move further into the post-season, and you would trust that franchise to make the moves needed. But, Brown values loyalty, and as long as the Bengals are winning in the regular season...well, then that's pretty good. Brown runs the team as a business more so than a Football team that strives to win Championships.

So, it is what it is. It's not 2-14 anymore, which is kind of nice. And at least in a 1-done game, you do always have a chance that Marvin will screw up, or Dalton will Channel Montana for a game. I wish they'd make a move, I wish that we could trust them to make the right move, but in the end...neither are happening (making a move, or the right move).

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Here's the thing, in a model franchise that values winning in the post season, everyone would expect a change at this point. Lewis has had his fair share of chances in getting a playoff victory, and should have at least 1, if not 2 or 3. They've played some vastly inferior teams in terms of QB play, or talent, but he's been out coached in nearly all of them. You could say the 1st year with a rookie QB/WR was house money, and last year in Indy wasn't going to be good without any WR's or offensive weapons, and a defense that was banged up all year long. The ones in the middle though, all of them were completely winnable.

The catch-22 comes in what I said in a devil's advocate post...does anyone trust this franchise to make the right moves needed to to secure a coach, and a staff, that can win in the post season? If this were Denver, Seattle, Pitt, etc...etc...the choice would have been made 2-3 years ago that Marvin did what he could, but another voice would be needed to move further into the post-season, and you would trust that franchise to make the moves needed. But, Brown values loyalty, and as long as the Bengals are winning in the regular season...well, then that's pretty good. Brown runs the team as a business more so than a Football team that strives to win Championships.

So, it is what it is. It's not 2-14 anymore, which is kind of nice. And at least in a 1-done game, you do always have a chance that Marvin will screw up, or Dalton will Channel Montana for a game. I wish they'd make a move, I wish that we could trust them to make the right move, but in the end...neither are happening (making a move, or the right move).

All good points...especially about Brown being content with reg season wins...that clearly explains extending Dalton AND Lewis imo.

I just saw the Falcons go through pretty much the same thing...they had a 3 or 4 yr run of being relevant but they couldn't win in the playoffs...they finally got a win then the wheels fell off the following year, and the year after that, and they finally had to make a HC change.

Blank (Falcons owner) wants to win a SB badly so that's a little different, but the point here is the Bengals are probably going to have to slide out of playoff contention for them to make a move on Lewis...and imo probably Dalton too.

 

[alf8478]

The chargers didn't play great defense

Cincy has certainly been patient with Lewis...but when you hear fans in IND saying Pagano is in a make or break year, I go wtf! Really?.

Pagano isn't a good coach. As harsh as this sounds, they should have just stuck with Arians after he got sick

 

[ATL96Steeler]

The chargers didn't play great defense


Pagano isn't a good coach. As harsh as this sounds, they should have just stuck with Arians after he got sick

Subjective...give me something I can sink my teeth into...why do you say this?

His record states the contrary.

Arians...we had as the OC in PIT...I know him well...he's always been a good playcaller...he got too pass happy in PIT and that was his undoing there. He lands in AZ with very good talent on both sides of the ball...got your old trigger man who is decent and he's doing well...glad to see that, but I'm not seeing a big step up over Pagano.

 

[cincygrad]

Indy has a very inconsistent defense and a horrible running game. They are a 3 win team without Luck.

Obviously you could make the argument that they don't have a ton of talent and I would buy it.... They had to rebuild after the Manning years and they're still reshaping their team. But Pagano's teams have been inconsistent - They look like world-beaters one week and they're horrible the next, and I think that's why the fans are frustrated. That and everyone loves Bruce.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Tomlin is an interesting case..... I think a lot will be said about him based on his ability to rebuild the defense in Pittsburgh. There are tons of coaches that could have done just fine in his situation -- He had Lebeau's defense and one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL. He won with that talent and situation so you have to give him credit. But it will say a lot more about him in how he handles the new transition.

Tomlin is an interesting case...some say he was simply a by-product of the Rooney Rule...maybe, maybe not.

To reach 2 SBs and win one with "Cowher's players" is huge imo...the 1st one probably 40% of the HCs in the league could do that...to bring an aging group back again (a few of those guys played in 3 SBs) even though they lost to GB showed me that he can coach. The great Gruden was not able to sustain it in Tampa...McCarthy took over a talented team...1 SB appearance.

Can he build a team? We really don't know yet. But you're right...what he's able to accomplish under Ben's last contract will ultimately define him as a HC to the masses.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Indy has a very inconsistent defense and a horrible running game. They are a 3 win team without Luck.

Obviously you could make the argument that they don't have a ton of talent and I would buy it.... They had to rebuild after the Manning years and they're still reshaping their team. But Pagano's teams have been inconsistent - They look like world-beaters one week and they're horrible the next, and I think that's why the fans are frustrated. That and everyone loves Bruce.

When you breakdown that team...DEF, no legit playmaker on the DL...they doing it with smoke and mirrors on DEF...lot of heavy blitzing and it worked early...teams started adjusting to what they were doing and that caused some of the up and down that you speak of.

OFC...pardon the pun, but obviously IND got lucky being terrible at the right time and got Luck...Hilton is legit and he probably should be a slot...Moncrief is developing...TEs are solid...the big snafu was RB...clearly they blew it there.

I tried to make that argument on the talent and I would buy that too...would Arians do better with that OFC roster? IMO yes, that's his forte, but DEF probably wouldn't be as good as they have been. Probably a wash.

 

[alf8478]

Indy has a very inconsistent defense and a horrible running game. They are a 3 win team without Luck.

Obviously you could make the argument that they don't have a ton of talent and I would buy it.... They had to rebuild after the Manning years and they're still reshaping their team. But Pagano's teams have been inconsistent - They look like world-beaters one week and they're horrible the next, and I think that's why the fans are frustrated. That and everyone loves Bruce.

This. His record is good because he plays in a horrible division that he should go 6-0 or 5-1 every year.

 

[futballiscool]

If you're into conspiracy theories, Pagano is going into the last year of his deal as a potential lame duck coach..

Jim Harbaugh took a college coaching job that would probably allow him to move to a new NFL coaching job if the right one opens up. If he had taken an NFL job he could have made more money but wouldn't have the option of leaving. Harbuagh used to play for Jim Irsay and the Colts. Luck was obviously his QB at Stanford and Pep Hamilton has already installed the important elements of his offensive scheme in Indianapolis. I can see an obvious fit there

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Idk about 6-0 or 5-1 every year, but I agree they should win the DIV and since HOU has tumbled...they have.

That's kind of my point...Pagano is doing about what you expect them to do with the roster they have...beating DEN LY was a huge feather in his cap imo.

But not my battle to fight...if IND wants to rid him...by all means rid him.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

If you're into conspiracy theories, Pagano is going into the last year of his deal as a potential lame duck coach..

Jim Harbaugh took a college coaching job that would probably allow him to move to a new NFL coaching job if the right one opens up. If he had taken an NFL job he could have made more money but wouldn't have the option of leaving. Harbuagh used to play for Jim Irsay and the Colts. Luck was obviously his QB at Stanford and Pep Hamilton has already installed the important elements of his offensive scheme in Indianapolis. I can see an obvious fit there

Stretch, but I can see that happening...IF IND wants to write MICH a big fat buyout check.

 

[alf8478]

If you're into conspiracy theories, Pagano is going into the last year of his deal as a potential lame duck coach..

Jim Harbaugh took a college coaching job that would probably allow him to move to a new NFL coaching job if the right one opens up. If he had taken an NFL job he could have made more money but wouldn't have the option of leaving. Harbuagh used to play for Jim Irsay and the Colts. Luck was obviously his QB at Stanford and Pep Hamilton has already installed the important elements of his offensive scheme in Indianapolis. I can see an obvious fit there

I love conspiracy theories. That's a good one

 

[cincygrad]

I can't imagine anyone buying that Harbaugh contract - Particularly given some of questions folks have about his longevity at any one place. That said, I like the conspiracy angle..... And Luck/Harbaugh would be an awesome combo (again).

 

[futballiscool]

I can't imagine anyone buying that Harbaugh contract - Particularly given some of questions folks have about his longevity at any one place. That said, I like the conspiracy angle..... And Luck/Harbaugh would be an awesome combo (again).

I don't know any of the details but I think Harbaugh would have the pull to have an opt out in his contract that would let him go back to the NFL when he wants with relative ease. That's just a complete guess though. It could be iron clad for every year of his deal