Mark Jackson -- LeBron Stooge?

[tlance]

I'm not saying he's #1, but I do think a case could be made for either. I'd for sure take him over Phillip. Pop's another story.

sure, having a Kobe/MJ/Lebron is tough but even Lue and Spoelstra have titles with Lebron. I think Brown would manage.

An FYI, though, Phillip has never won a title without arguably the best player in the league on his team. Sometimes best 2.

He handled Shaq and Kobe so well they traded Shaq because they couldn't get along.

Could Joe average coach have won a title or 2 with either of those teams?

Yes.

But PJ has 11.

It wasn't that he won. It was that he won damn near every year his team had a legit chance to win.

 

[dtgold88]

Could Joe average coach have won a title or 2 with either of those teams?

Yes.

But PJ has 11.

It wasn't that he won. It was that he won damn near every year his team had a legit chance to win.

It's impressive, but he also lost every year he didn't have a 2nd superstar.

 

[trojanfan12]

He handled Shaq and Kobe so well they traded Shaq because they couldn't get along.

Shaq didn't leave because of Kobe or Phil. Yes, they feuded and didn't get along, but Phil was always able to get them to co-exist during the season, which was all that mattered.

Shaq left because of money. Dr. Buss didn't want to pay Shaq what Shaq was looking for because Shaq was lazy, didn't want to stay in shape in the off-season and was starting to decline.

Meanwhile, he had Kobe who was younger and a fanatic about working out in the off-season.

He chose to pay the younger, more dedicated player.

The final straw for Dr. Buss was during an exhibition game he attended, when Shaq threw down one of his monster dunks and then screamed at Dr. Buss..."You gonna pay me now?"

 

[dtgold88]

Shaq didn't leave because of Kobe or Phil. Yes, they feuded and didn't get along, but Phil was always able to get them to co-exist during the season, which was all that mattered.

Shaq left because of money. Dr. Buss didn't want to pay Shaq what Shaq was looking for because Shaq was lazy, didn't want to stay in shape in the off-season and was starting to decline.

Meanwhile, he had Kobe who was younger and a fanatic about working out in the off-season.

He chose to pay the younger, more dedicated player.

The final straw for Dr. Buss was during an exhibition game he attended, when Shaq threw down one of his monster dunks and then screamed at Dr. Buss..."You gonna pay me now?"

Have to assume you'd know more than me being so close....weren't there max deals then? Was Shaq not getting a max deal?

 

[trojanfan12]

Have to assume you'd know more than me being so close....weren't there max deals then? Was Shaq not getting a max deal?

Yeah, if memory serves, Dr. Buss only wanted to give one max deal and chose to give it to Kobe.

Knowing how Dr. Buss typically did things, Shaq probably would have ended getting a max or close to it anyway. Especially if he had reacted by showing up to training camp in shape and then had a great season.

Instead, he had a tantrum.

A lot of folks still think it was because of Kobe, because they did feud (mainly over Shaq being lazy) and Shaq threw a lot of shade at Kobe after he left.

But Shaq has since said that he should have listened to Kobe.

 

[dtgold88]

Yeah, if memory serves, Dr. Buss only wanted to give one max deal and chose to give it to Kobe.

Knowing how Dr. Buss typically did things, Shaq probably would have ended getting a max or close to it anyway. Especially if he had reacted by showing up to training camp in shape and then had a great season.

Instead, he had a tantrum.

A lot of folks still think it was because of Kobe, because they did feud (mainly over Shaq being lazy) and Shaq threw a lot of shade at Kobe after he left.

But Shaq has since said that he should have listened to Kobe.

You think if they were friends, though, shaq goes?

 

[trojanfan12]

You think if they were friends, though, shaq goes?

Shaq was traded, so it really wasn't up to him.

If he and Kobe were friends, maybe he would have listened to Kobe and Dr. Buss would have paid him what he was asking for?

But, if he were still lazy, I doubt it would have made a difference. Especially after the way he disrespected him publicly. He liked to keep things out of the public eye. He was probably spinning in his grave during the AD stuff.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Shaq didn't leave because of Kobe or Phil. Yes, they feuded and didn't get along, but Phil was always able to get them to co-exist during the season, which was all that mattered.

Shaq left because of money. Dr. Buss didn't want to pay Shaq what Shaq was looking for because Shaq was lazy, didn't want to stay in shape in the off-season and was starting to decline.

Meanwhile, he had Kobe who was younger and a fanatic about working out in the off-season.

He chose to pay the younger, more dedicated player.

The final straw for Dr. Buss was during an exhibition game he attended, when Shaq threw down one of his monster dunks and then screamed at Dr. Buss..."You gonna pay me now?"

That is all part of it for sure, but I distinctly remember Mitch Kupchak telling Shaq immediately after the Lakers were eliminated in the playoffs, that they fully intended to resign Kobe and If He(Shaq) did not like it, could request a trade or something like that. Shaq was visibly upset and sent his agents into the front office the next day and demanded a trade.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Shaq was traded, so it really wasn't up to him.

If he and Kobe were friends, maybe he would have listened to Kobe and Dr. Buss would have paid him what he was asking for?

But, if he were still lazy, I doubt it would have made a difference. Especially after the way he disrespected him publicly. He liked to keep things out of the public eye. He was probably spinning in his grave during the AD stuff.

Jerry Buss said after the fact several years later - that he declined to pay Shaq more money because Shaq had declined as a player and that had Shaq been performing without declining as he had just done in Miami "That he may have thought differently" Shaq got pissed about that by the way fired back with his own insults

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Yeah, if memory serves, Dr. Buss only wanted to give one max deal and chose to give it to Kobe.

.

I don't think they had enough money for two max deals - that would have been 45 million and 15 million left for everyone else. I don't see that as a good option, but the Lakers were over the cap any way and didn't mind as long as they were winning