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Mariners Offseason 2024-25

cezero

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I agree 100%, but I also believe having the worst hitting team in the world playing there 81 games a year has a lot to do with the park factor stats.

so take the m's out of it and look up every other team's offensive stats when hitting at tmobile. it will be in their top 5 every year for worst offensive production. it's objective fact. there's nothing to agree or disagree with.
 

NWinAZ

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wazzu31

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Ichiro hit in this ballpark. Boone did. Edgar did. Olerud did. Cruz did. Cano did. ARod did. Ibanez did. That punk ass bitch Justin Smoak made it okay to whine about the park being the problem so nearly every failing hitter since has used that as an excuse. Griffey whined about the park too, but it wasn't the batting eye he didn't like, he didn't like that there were no more cheap homeruns like there was in the Kingdome.

I don't blame the ballpark. I blame the quality of players brought in to play in it and the 'yes men' managers and coaches brought in to manage them. From my perspective, ownership has rarely gone after top level hitting talent other than Cano, Beltre, Sexson, Olerud, and Cruz. Five guys in the 25-year history of the park isn't much to brag about.

There are plenty of instances of players leaving here and performing better on new teams, but I think that has more to do with being in a better clubhouse environment and having more protection in the lineup.

Any ballpark can be exploited for the advantage it offers, including T-Mobile, but the advantage has to be identified and exploited. You can't consistently win games in T-Mobile with a lineup full of three-outcome hitters. I think that has been proven ad nauseam. But, Servais had been determined to go that route for the last nine years. Maybe Wilson and Edgar can convince the 2025 team to try a different approach. A Mariner team full of professional, level swinging, line drive hitters, above average speed with smart base running instincts, and defend well, could win a lot of games in T-Mobile. Now all they need to do is replace about 7 guys in the projected 2025 lineup with professional type hitters. Shouldn't be too hard....
I do think you are downplaying the park just a bit. There is an acknowledged problem with the park for hitters. But a problem the Mariners have had is not only identifying the type of hitter who can thrive, but also they keep getting (it appears) mental midgets (couldn’t think of a better word sorry). You can tell by how much distain for the park a lot of these players who leave have, is in their heads they weren’t only facing the pitcher but also the park. They need to find guys who can have a slump to start the season and instead of playing the park they blame themselves. More clones of Kyle Seager, where he always seemingly struggled in April and May then tore it up the rest of the year.

But because of the park, it’s why I like the minor league crop of players. They are doubles hitters who sometimes get HR’s. They need to design the offense to produce wins anyway possible not to walk and hit home runs.
 

NWinAZ

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so take the m's out of it and look up every other team's offensive stats when hitting at tmobile. it will be in their top 5 every year for worst offensive production. it's objective fact. there's nothing to agree or disagree with.
But didn't we have the best rotation in baseball? I am just saying there are other variables involved in this stuff.
 

cezero

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Those who think a change in "hitting philosophy" or other nebulous fluff will somehow be a solution to the myriad problems this team has will certainly be happy as this offseason unfolds.

Ownership clearly agrees.
 

cezero

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i listened to him. the only way we even got robinson cano to come here was to give him an offer no other team would dream of matching since the steroid era was coming to an end the year his NY contract ended and safeco is safeco. same with beltre, who by the way, went from going through motions here after trying hard for half a season and realizing it was feckless in a steroid-era ballpark. dude rode out the rest of his fat contract just going through the motions and his stats shot straight through the roof when left. hell, unless you're a vapid moron, you have to understand that fucking mitch garver only came here because we offered him at least 30% more than any other team would to a guy who had been part-time player for half a decade. argue against that all you want. it's an opinion for sure, but i'm not interested in arguing with vapid fools about it, so jerk yourselves off and enjoy.

back to the dude's comments, every GM outside of NY or LA wants to be the one to find the diamond in the rough and build your team around them. they're exceedingly rare, duh, and ownership has no reason to try to hire a GM with that kind of philosophy or ability. if/when jerry gets fired, if this ownership group is still in place, they'll just get another jerry. it's all they've ever done for fuck's sake. again, what possible reason could they have to change if this is working so well for them? 2024 was 100% successful in their eyes, and they see nothing but plenty more dollar signs for 2025 and beyond.
 

NWinAZ

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NWinAZ

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i listened to him. the only way we even got robinson cano to come here was to give him an offer no other team would dream of matching since the steroid era was coming to an end the year his NY contract ended and safeco is safeco. same with beltre, who by the way, went from going through motions here after trying hard for half a season and realizing it was feckless in a steroid-era ballpark. dude rode out the rest of his fat contract just going through the motions and his stats shot straight through the roof when left. hell, unless you're a vapid moron, you have to understand that fucking mitch garver only came here because we offered him at least 30% more than any other team would to a guy who had been part-time player for half a decade. argue against that all you want. it's an opinion for sure, but i'm not interested in arguing with vapid fools about it, so jerk yourselves off and enjoy.

back to the dude's comments, every GM outside of NY or LA wants to be the one to find the diamond in the rough and build your team around them. they're exceedingly rare, duh, and ownership has no reason to try to hire a GM with that kind of philosophy or ability. if/when jerry gets fired, if this ownership group is still in place, they'll just get another jerry. it's all they've ever done for fuck's sake. again, what possible reason could they have to change if this is working so well for them? 2024 was 100% successful in their eyes, and they see nothing but plenty more dollar signs for 2025 and beyond.
I have always argued that we did not overpay for the players you mentioned. It was the cost of doing business for Seattle. You are exactly right that we won't get them for standard market price. We have our own market price and it is what it is. Not an overpay, just the cost of bringing someone to the edge of the baseball world.
 

jerseyhawksfan79

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Those who think a change in "hitting philosophy" or other nebulous fluff will somehow be a solution to the myriad problems this team has will certainly be happy as this offseason unfolds.

Ownership clearly agrees.
They do need a change in hitting philosophy to go along with getting some damn hitters. The launch angle bullshit needs to be revamped with this team.
 

jerseyhawksfan79

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Agreed. The rumor mill says the Phils are desperate to move him. Well, they must not want to get rid of him that badly if they expect a package like that in return.
They're floating him out there hoping someone over spends but they'll be fine if he's still on the team.
 

NWinAZ

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I guess years of being beaten down by this club that I am fine with going middle ground on changes. I don't know if these cheap bastards will even do that, but I am ok with it as long as it is a step forward. I hear they are talking to Cubs about Hoerner and talking about Walker for 1B. I could live with that and it is actually achievable.

Hoerner $11.5M for 2025
Walker $15M? for 2025

That is $26.5M for 2025 and by trading Castillo they save $24.150M. Get Cubs to pay the difference for 2025 and call it even. Use the International money for Sasaki and it doesn't change the budget leaving the $16M they budgeted for a 3B and BP.

I could live with that. If they could really dump Garver as reports suggest, then that saves another $10M for more BP.

Edit: One site predicts $20M per year for Walker. Maybe they can stay at my $15M for year one and raise year 2 and 3. Here is what they say about him.

13. Christian Walker: Three years, $60MM

Tim: Tigers / Anthony: Yankees / Darragh: Yankees / Steve: Astros

In April 2020, Steve Adams wrote a piece for the site entitled “The D-backs replaced Paul Goldschmidt with a waiver claim — and it worked.” At the time, Walker had waited five years for an everyday opportunity in the majors, languishing in Triple-A behind names like Chris Davis, Mark Trumbo, Freddie Freeman, Joey Votto and the titular Goldschmidt while being passed around on waivers. The Snakes even succeeded in passing Walker through waivers unclaimed.

At the time, Walker was coming off one breakout season but had plenty of questions surrounding him. He’d hit 29 home runs but done so in the juiced-ball season of 2019. Was the power legitimate? Yes, he could play defense, but could he sustain his offensive production over a longer period and truly become a starting-caliber first baseman?

Yes. To all of it. And then some.

Walker has been one of the game’s most underrated and overlooked stars for the past several seasons. He’s a premium defender who has emerged as a consistent threat to swat 30 home runs in a given season. He no longer runs that well, but at his best he even had above-average speed. Walker has won a Gold Glove in each of the past two seasons and will probably win his third in 2024 after posting terrific marks in Outs Above Average (13) and Defensive Runs Saved (7). He made just two errors in 2024, his second straight season with only two on the year.

That defense and a sharp 9.9% walk rate across the past three seasons give Walker a nice floor even in the absence of offensive production, but that hasn’t been an issue for him. The slugger hit .251/.335/.468 with 26 homers in just 130 games this season. Were it not for an oblique strain that resulted in his first IL placement since 2021 (also for an oblique strain), he’d have topped 30 homers for a third straight season. Since Opening Day 2022, Walker is a .250/.332/.481 hitter. He torched lefties in 2022-23 while posting merely above-average numbers against righties, but his 2024 splits (and his career-long splits) are more balanced.

The sole reason that Walker seems limited to a three-year deal is age. He played this past season at 33 and will turn 34 during spring training next year. Were Walker a few years younger, he’d likely rank ahead of Alonso on this list, given his vastly superior defense. Three-year deals for first base/DH types at this age are rare but all generally fall in the same range. Jose Abreu received an ill-fated $58.5MM guarantee beginning in his age-36 season. Edwin Encarnacion and Carlos Santana both signed for three years and $60MM — Encarnacion starting in his age-34 season and Santana in his age-32 season. Walker should follow suit with a three-year guarantee at around $20MM, give or take a million or two. The Astros, Mariners, Yankees, D-backs, Giants and Nats could be involved (as could the Mets, depending where Alonso signs).
 

ulmax

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I guess years of being beaten down by this club that I am fine with going middle ground on changes. I don't know if these cheap bastards will even do that, but I am ok with it as long as it is a step forward. I hear they are talking to Cubs about Hoerner and talking about Walker for 1B. I could live with that and it is actually achievable.

Hoerner $11.5M for 2025
Walker $15M? for 2025

That is $26.5M for 2025 and by trading Castillo they save $24.150M. Get Cubs to pay the difference for 2025 and call it even. Use the International money for Sasaki and it doesn't change the budget leaving the $16M they budgeted for a 3B and BP.

I could live with that. If they could really dump Garver as reports suggest, then that saves another $10M for more BP.

Edit: One site predicts $20M per year for Walker. Maybe they can stay at my $15M for year one and raise year 2 and 3. Here is what they say about him.

13. Christian Walker: Three years, $60MM

Tim: Tigers / Anthony: Yankees / Darragh: Yankees / Steve: Astros

In April 2020, Steve Adams wrote a piece for the site entitled “The D-backs replaced Paul Goldschmidt with a waiver claim — and it worked.” At the time, Walker had waited five years for an everyday opportunity in the majors, languishing in Triple-A behind names like Chris Davis, Mark Trumbo, Freddie Freeman, Joey Votto and the titular Goldschmidt while being passed around on waivers. The Snakes even succeeded in passing Walker through waivers unclaimed.

At the time, Walker was coming off one breakout season but had plenty of questions surrounding him. He’d hit 29 home runs but done so in the juiced-ball season of 2019. Was the power legitimate? Yes, he could play defense, but could he sustain his offensive production over a longer period and truly become a starting-caliber first baseman?

Yes. To all of it. And then some.

Walker has been one of the game’s most underrated and overlooked stars for the past several seasons. He’s a premium defender who has emerged as a consistent threat to swat 30 home runs in a given season. He no longer runs that well, but at his best he even had above-average speed. Walker has won a Gold Glove in each of the past two seasons and will probably win his third in 2024 after posting terrific marks in Outs Above Average (13) and Defensive Runs Saved (7). He made just two errors in 2024, his second straight season with only two on the year.

That defense and a sharp 9.9% walk rate across the past three seasons give Walker a nice floor even in the absence of offensive production, but that hasn’t been an issue for him. The slugger hit .251/.335/.468 with 26 homers in just 130 games this season. Were it not for an oblique strain that resulted in his first IL placement since 2021 (also for an oblique strain), he’d have topped 30 homers for a third straight season. Since Opening Day 2022, Walker is a .250/.332/.481 hitter. He torched lefties in 2022-23 while posting merely above-average numbers against righties, but his 2024 splits (and his career-long splits) are more balanced.

The sole reason that Walker seems limited to a three-year deal is age. He played this past season at 33 and will turn 34 during spring training next year. Were Walker a few years younger, he’d likely rank ahead of Alonso on this list, given his vastly superior defense. Three-year deals for first base/DH types at this age are rare but all generally fall in the same range. Jose Abreu received an ill-fated $58.5MM guarantee beginning in his age-36 season. Edwin Encarnacion and Carlos Santana both signed for three years and $60MM — Encarnacion starting in his age-34 season and Santana in his age-32 season. Walker should follow suit with a three-year guarantee at around $20MM, give or take a million or two. The Astros, Mariners, Yankees, D-backs, Giants and Nats could be involved (as could the Mets, depending where Alonso signs).
Yeah that's what..I been.saying..

Any some such .way .mariners.
Could get some guys.

By tradeing Castillo..cubs seem..
Best..
But who knows
 

ulmax

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No one is saying Miranda of twins.
That's ok..I know he can.hit.
And hrs.
He just didn't this year .
But he did hit 280..

Twins.depth has him.at.1b..thats..still.ok.
For mariners...
At 800.k..
I'm a bit cheaper..than most.
 

ulmax

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Ya do what ya can..
And go with who ya have ..at the end.
 

ulmax

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It never ends up..the way we think.it.will.
Or.even should

Sometimes.
It does not happen at all..

For mariners.
 

ulmax

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If all the mariners .can get.is.thete.
Own.. minor leage.guys..
So be it..
They need more than that..
But what ..

Can be done.
 

ulmax

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All other teams want..
Is.
Gilbert
Kerby
Miller
Woo..
Hancock.

Castillo.not at all.and.when.he.was.
At cinncinati..
Everyone did want him.
He's still.good .
 

ulmax

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All I have to say..to those teams is.
Would you trade those guys .

I doubt it
 
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