Series Thread: MARINERS MINORS 2021

[NWinAZ]

Another sign we are so inept as an organization.

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[wazzu31]

When it comes to Haniger I think I've doubled down on not trading him after reading this article: Seattle Mariners: Mitch Haniger won’t be cheap in a trade the most reasonable trade this article proposes would end up with the Mariners netting a young unproven starter and a pitcher not even in the top 100 of baseball. I don't know if that's the best source, but as I said I'm tired of selling off proven veterans for mere prospects. It just hasn't worked for us.

Also I have to say maybe Haniger will continue to get even better. I'm quite honestly astonished he has been able to return and play at the level he has after all the time he has missed and the surgeries he has gone through. Pretty damn impressive when you think about it.

I'm still high on Ty France. Before that injury he looked like a legit .300 hitter with plus power. Nothing may have been broken or anything, but I can't imagine swinging a bat after taking a 90+ MPH fastball off the forearm must be pretty difficult.

I've said that I'm not a huge Trammell fan, but even if I was high on him you can argue he's the 5th best outfielder in the organization right now behind Haniger, Lewis, Kelenic, and Julio. I just feel like as a top-50 prospect, fitting in the organization as a 4th outfielder at best he has more value than that in a trade. The Mariners farm system is loaded with pitchers and outfielders, but we have not much to speak of when it comes to infielders.

Please don't mention the idea of signing Corey Seager, Kris Bryant and re-signing Kyle Seager (perhaps moving him to 2B) because the idea of doing that would actually give me hope for this organization.

What are your thoughts on Evan White and our catching situation? I really don't want to sour on Evan White, his performance defensively has been incredible but his performance on the plate has been absolutely abysmal through his first 84 MLB games. Can a strikeout rate of 37.6% be fixed?

With the catching situation, I figured the Mariners would be good with Tom Murphy and Luis Torrens but clearly it hasn't been good. I don't know if Murphy is just in a slump or what, because the injury that caused him to miss 2020 isn't one I'd suspect would still be impacting him now.

The only thing with Haniger is I am not sure on his ceiling because of his age. He could be a Nelson Cruz type guy who’s body matured late or is it like a lot other guys who got turned into backups after a good couple years run. I am guessing it is the former because, it appears, every time he has been healthy in a M’s uniform he has been one of the top offensive players. If J Rod were in AA or AAA killing then I could handle it better but he’s not so they either need to keep Haniger, or load Haniger up with a package that can steal an ace from someone. Cleveland seems to be cheap so maybe Haniger, Dunn and someone other prospect for Bieber. Obviously wishful thinking but that type of deal. Not Haniger for a guy who is years away. 2022 was always the year they would be competing for a WS from Jerry’s mouth. They can’t keep loading up on guys where he has a legitimate argument to keep getting extensions to see it through.

Well France showed last night at least opposing teams fear him. I like the dudes bat, just problem is where to play him. When White comes back, he is going to be given every chance possible. I haven’t seen enough of France at 2B to see if his offense is worth how bad the defense may be. That is my only hesitation with him is it appears to be like Vogelbach. Not much flexibility with the lineup and you essentially have to have a designation replacement for him at the end of the game in field.

The Mariners are loaded with OF prospects but they need serviceable guys to be backups. Just to me, I’d much rather them go cheap and have a guy like Trammell being the guy out there instead of spending money on a FA unless the FA is coming in for a minimal salary.

I am not saying that is a legitimate possibility of getting that infield. But with what the payroll is scheduled to be next year vs how much money Stanton and Co can spend on a budget, there isn’t a single reason why they can’t getting Bryant and both Seagers (not sure if they would even want to play together). In a market like Seattle and how much money the ownership group is worth there isn’t a reason it should be considered a cheap year when they are around $150 million a year with a budget. They got at least $100 to spend. $90 into them making your lineup solid then start trading for an ace. They have too many OF prospects and pitching prospects, so they will have to deal them eventually. And this year, an eye needs to be kept on if Marte stays at SS all year. Because Crawford could be a sweetener in a deal for an ace or eating White’s contract and deal for a 1B.

Evan White is a massive TBD. He is kind of like Zunino. If the Mariners can put out a good lineup I think his defense is worth a hole in the lineup. His defense could allow for France to play 2B or have lesser guys playing in the field. But his glove isn’t worth it if he is surrounded by .200 or less hitters. But Evan White is the weird thing with Jerry, is his talking about bringing guys up when they are ready. There wasn’t anything that said White was ready. And Torrens is kind of the opposite of White. He appears to be a crappy catcher but his offense was suppose to be solid. So you can’t carry a guy like him if he can’t hit. That is my concern with Raleigh. Raleigh is another Zunino on defense, but is a project on offense IMO and it is even harder because he is a switch hitter to gauge what kind of ceiling he has as a big league catcher.

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[seahawksfan234]

The only thing with Haniger is I am not sure on his ceiling because of his age. He could be a Nelson Cruz type guy who’s body matured late or is it like a lot other guys who got turned into backups after a good couple years run. I am guessing it is the former because, it appears, every time he has been healthy in a M’s uniform he has been one of the top offensive players. If J Rod were in AA or AAA killing then I could handle it better but he’s not so they either need to keep Haniger, or load Haniger up with a package that can steal an ace from someone. Cleveland seems to be cheap so maybe Haniger, Dunn and someone other prospect for Bieber. Obviously wishful thinking but that type of deal. Not Haniger for a guy who is years away. 2022 was always the year they would be competing for a WS from Jerry’s mouth. They can’t keep loading up on guys where he has a legitimate argument to keep getting extensions to see it through.

Well France showed last night at least opposing teams fear him. I like the dudes bat, just problem is where to play him. When White comes back, he is going to be given every chance possible. I haven’t seen enough of France at 2B to see if his offense is worth how bad the defense may be. That is my only hesitation with him is it appears to be like Vogelbach. Not much flexibility with the lineup and you essentially have to have a designation replacement for him at the end of the game in field.

The Mariners are loaded with OF prospects but they need serviceable guys to be backups. Just to me, I’d much rather them go cheap and have a guy like Trammell being the guy out there instead of spending money on a FA unless the FA is coming in for a minimal salary.

I am not saying that is a legitimate possibility of getting that infield. But with what the payroll is scheduled to be next year vs how much money Stanton and Co can spend on a budget, there isn’t a single reason why they can’t getting Bryant and both Seagers (not sure if they would even want to play together). In a market like Seattle and how much money the ownership group is worth there isn’t a reason it should be considered a cheap year when they are around $150 million a year with a budget. They got at least $100 to spend. $90 into them making your lineup solid then start trading for an ace. They have too many OF prospects and pitching prospects, so they will have to deal them eventually. And this year, an eye needs to be kept on if Marte stays at SS all year. Because Crawford could be a sweetener in a deal for an ace or eating White’s contract and deal for a 1B.

Evan White is a massive TBD. He is kind of like Zunino. If the Mariners can put out a good lineup I think his defense is worth a hole in the lineup. His defense could allow for France to play 2B or have lesser guys playing in the field. But his glove isn’t worth it if he is surrounded by .200 or less hitters. But Evan White is the weird thing with Jerry, is his talking about bringing guys up when they are ready. There wasn’t anything that said White was ready. And Torrens is kind of the opposite of White. He appears to be a crappy catcher but his offense was suppose to be solid. So you can’t carry a guy like him if he can’t hit. That is my concern with Raleigh. Raleigh is another Zunino on defense, but is a project on offense IMO and it is even harder because he is a switch hitter to gauge what kind of ceiling he has as a big league catcher.

I think Haniger has actually reached his ceiling as a player. When I mentioned he could improve even more, I just meant it in terms that he's hitting the hell out of the ball after a long absence and could improve a bit more. My biggest concern is the injuries. It's clearly not a conditioning issue as he has been able to return and play at the level he has been playing at, so it might be completely out of anyone's control. Injuries be damned, I don't think there is any reason to trade him unless we could package him for an ace like you mentioned, which is fairly unlikely for all of the obvious reasons. I think unless the Mariners received an incredible offer for him, trading him would just be another step back in this "rebuilding" process or whatever you want to call it.

We're on the same page with France, although I think we still haven't seen his ceiling as a hitter. I really do think he has the ability to be a legit .300 hitter who gets on base regularly. The thing that confuses me is his lack of position. It's not like he's unathletic, so it almost seems a waste having him at DH. In the minors he played primarily at first and third, so maybe the plan is to have him succeed Seager at 3rd? Honestly I don't know.

I'm completely with you when it comes with spending this offseason. There's no reason that ownership shouldn't open up their wallets and try to add some star power with what our payroll is expected to be next year.

Honestly my biggest concern with Evan White is his offense. As incredible as Evan White's defense is, first base is arguably the least important defensive position in baseball. I would be less concerned about him if he wasn't striking out so much. Jerry claims that players will be called up when ready, but that's all bullshit. It's all about money. After hearing that Kelenic was told he would play in the majors if he signed an extension, that tells me they did the same thing with Evan White, ready or not. Had Kelenic signed a contract extension before the 2020 season we probably would've seen him last year. It has nothing to do with if they're ready or not despite Dipoto's bullshit. Kelenic would've been on the opening day roster if not for service time manipulation.

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[wazzu31]

I think Haniger has actually reached his ceiling as a player. When I mentioned he could improve even more, I just meant it in terms that he's hitting the hell out of the ball after a long absence and could improve a bit more. My biggest concern is the injuries. It's clearly not a conditioning issue as he has been able to return and play at the level he has been playing at, so it might be completely out of anyone's control. Injuries be damned, I don't think there is any reason to trade him unless we could package him for an ace like you mentioned, which is fairly unlikely for all of the obvious reasons. I think unless the Mariners received an incredible offer for him, trading him would just be another step back in this "rebuilding" process or whatever you want to call it.

We're on the same page with France, although I think we still haven't seen his ceiling as a hitter. I really do think he has the ability to be a legit .300 hitter who gets on base regularly. The thing that confuses me is his lack of position. It's not like he's unathletic, so it almost seems a waste having him at DH. In the minors he played primarily at first and third, so maybe the plan is to have him succeed Seager at 3rd? Honestly I don't know.

I'm completely with you when it comes with spending this offseason. There's no reason that ownership shouldn't open up their wallets and try to add some star power with what our payroll is expected to be next year.

Honestly my biggest concern with Evan White is his offense. As incredible as Evan White's defense is, first base is arguably the least important defensive position in baseball. I would be less concerned about him if he wasn't striking out so much. Jerry claims that players will be called up when ready, but that's all bullshit. It's all about money. After hearing that Kelenic was told he would play in the majors if he signed an extension, that tells me they did the same thing with Evan White, ready or not. Had Kelenic signed a contract extension before the 2020 season we probably would've seen him last year. It has nothing to do with if they're ready or not despite Dipoto's bullshit. Kelenic would've been on the opening day roster if not for service time manipulation.

Offense is so bad in the league I do think he would have good value. But I have reversed my position on they would have to be blown away with an offer and I just don’t see an offer any team could make that fits the time frame of winning.

France isn’t Vogelbach or Jesus Montero so I don’t know. I can’t imagine they have him penciled in for 3B or he and Seager would’ve been flipping on and off at least I would think. Not sure how it helps your team having a guy who isn’t a defensive wizard play DH the whole year then toss the hot corner at him in a season it “matters”.

Evan Whites offense is concerning. That was something that was mentioned is Haniger is athletic enough maybe toss a 1B mitt on him I don’t know. It was obvious BS with him being ready and he needs seasoning down in Tacoma, just as I think Kelenic needs to go back. Just because you use demote someone doesn’t mean they aren’t going to succeed. Plenty of stars haven’t been rookie of the year guys.

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[seahawksfan234]

Offense is so bad in the league I do think he would have good value. But I have reversed my position on they would have to be blown away with an offer and I just don’t see an offer any team could make that fits the time frame of winning.

France isn’t Vogelbach or Jesus Montero so I don’t know. I can’t imagine they have him penciled in for 3B or he and Seager would’ve been flipping on and off at least I would think. Not sure how it helps your team having a guy who isn’t a defensive wizard play DH the whole year then toss the hot corner at him in a season it “matters”.

Evan Whites offense is concerning. That was something that was mentioned is Haniger is athletic enough maybe toss a 1B mitt on him I don’t know. It was obvious BS with him being ready and he needs seasoning down in Tacoma, just as I think Kelenic needs to go back. Just because you use demote someone doesn’t mean they aren’t going to succeed. Plenty of stars haven’t been rookie of the year guys.

I'll have to take your word on offense being bad in the league because to be frank I only watch the Mariners games. I can't really get into baseball games unless I have a team to root for. I find it strange that HRs have been up but offense overall has been down. Perhaps we're right that relying on the long ball might sound sexy but it's not the most successful way to generate offense.

It looks like they've been playing France at first. I really do wonder what that means for Evan White. You're right that if they thought he can play third he'd be getting playing experience there. Maybe he doesn't have the arm for it. If Ty France has a position he can play in the field, I think it makes sense as I do believe that DH should be reserved for guys who have an MLB bat but can't play a position at any decent level.

I think you're completely right about Evan White and Jarred Kelenic not being ready.


Kelenic and White have a combined 10 games of experience in AAA. It can't be a coincidence that they're both on that list with such little experience in the minors.

I do agree that Kelenic should be sent down, but the strange thing about his struggles is when I've watched him he has been making good contact and hitting the ball hard but has just been hitting it right at fielders. Kelenic's batting average on balls put on play is an astonishingly low .109. League average for balls put in play is around .300. I hate to invoke "bad luck," but Kelenic has for the most part been having good at bats and hitting the ball well, it's just that the ball has been going to the wrong places.

 

[NWinAZ]

Kelenic's batting average on balls put on play is an astonishingly low .109. League average for balls put in play is around .300. I hate to invoke "bad luck," but Kelenic has for the most part been having good at bats and hitting the ball well, it's just that the ball has been going to the wrong places.

I have always hated that stat. It is like saying if I was better looking I would have more women...duh...lol. His number is low because he is a dead pull hitter hitting into the shift 90% of the time. He can play until he is 40 and it still won't work. He has also had a problem recognizing strikes. He takes a lot of them which is something that worries me with any hitter. You can tweak a swing, but you can't do anything with a hitter than doesn't know a strike from a ball.

With all that said, he will be fine, maybe not elite, in a couple years. He needs to go down relearn and then come back up after a couple months. Even if he has to do that a couple times, that is okay.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I have always hated that stat. It is like saying if I was better looking I would have more women...duh...lol. His number is low because he is a dead pull hitter hitting into the shift 90% of the time. He can play until he is 40 and it still won't work. He has also had a problem recognizing strikes. He takes a lot of them which is something that worries me with any hitter. You can tweak a swing, but you can't do anything with a hitter than doesn't know a strike from a ball.

With all that said, he will be fine, maybe not elite, in a couple years. He needs to go down relearn and then come back up after a couple months. Even if he has to do that a couple times, that is okay.

Well you just did @wazzu31's job for him lol.

I actually didn't realize this, but Kelenic has only played 27 combined games between AA and AAA in his career. Even Mike Trout played 91 games in AA. Tbh I'm surprised nobody brought this issue up (or I missed it, which I probably did) before Kelenic's call up.

I think his pitch recognition will improve as he gains experience. I mean shit even a journeyman has better stuff than a majority of the pitchers that Kelenic has faced thus far in his pro career.