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Manager Situation

calsnowskier

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They really could have left him with a contract that went through 2024 only. Maybe that made Melvin too nervous to commit but I would have preferred that. Sure, the Giants can still let FZ go after the 2024 season if it is another disappointment but it seems less likely that would happen with this extension.
A GM who is ONLY looking at this year is a dangerous thing. He could do serious damage to the org because he ONLY cares about winning THIS year. That would incentivize him to trade Whisenhunt for a PH specialist because it MIGHT help in a couple games THIS year.
 

LHG

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We have to take the good with the bad. I think Melvin is going to have a lot of pull with his experience, that is of course why they hired him. So hopefully that also means some of his opinions overrides Mr. Z opinions. And we shall be in the playoffs in 2024.
I am not certain Melvin makes the difference. Maybe he does. But for the sake of argument, let's say he improves 5 games over Kapler. That would put the Giants' record at 84-78. That would have tied them with the D-Backs but would have still missed the playoffs based on the tiebreaker. It is possible, with some improvements here and there, that the Giants could make the playoffs in 2024. But the NL West won't get any easier.
 

LHG

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A GM who is ONLY looking at this year is a dangerous thing. He could do serious damage to the org because he ONLY cares about winning THIS year. That would incentivize him to trade Whisenhunt for a PH specialist because it MIGHT help in a couple games THIS year.
Yeah, I guess. Still, if the Giants flop again in 2024, and prospects don't start panning out, does that mean FZ is gone after 2024 or do we really have to deal with two more seasons, at least, of his style of team building?
I mean, I really hope that it all comes together and the team starts a lengthy run at deep postseason runs, but I have my doubts it will happen with him in charge.
 
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I am not certain Melvin makes the difference. Maybe he does. But for the sake of argument, let's say he improves 5 games over Kapler. That would put the Giants' record at 84-78. That would have tied them with the D-Backs but would have still missed the playoffs based on the tiebreaker. It is possible, with some improvements here and there, that the Giants could make the playoffs in 2024. But the NL West won't get any easier.
I think a manager makes a difference over a 3-5 yr horizon. Basically he set culture and roster. Can't change much in year 1, but over a longer period he'll get the clubhouse that mirrors him or he'll be gone (ala Kap and BoMel/SD)
 
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Yeah, I guess. Still, if the Giants flop again in 2024, and prospects don't start panning out, does that mean FZ is gone after 2024 or do we really have to deal with two more seasons, at least, of his style of team building?
I mean, I really hope that it all comes together and the team starts a lengthy run at deep postseason runs, but I have my doubts it will happen with him in charge.
Gotta believe Johnson is fully commited to FZ for '24 and I doubt expectations are much beyond incremental. If things really tank worse then '23 then he'll be gone in '25 or one an extremely short leash.
 

calsnowskier

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Yeah, I guess. Still, if the Giants flop again in 2024, and prospects don't start panning out, does that mean FZ is gone after 2024 or do we really have to deal with two more seasons, at least, of his style of team building?
I mean, I really hope that it all comes together and the team starts a lengthy run at deep postseason runs, but I have my doubts it will happen with him in charge.
I have no idea. My guess is that his “power” would be totally castrated. Which would make him a HORRIBLE GM (I know, he isnt the GM, but he is the GM).
 

msgkings322

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We have to take the good with the bad. I think Melvin is going to have a lot of pull with his experience, that is of course why they hired him. So hopefully that also means some of his opinions overrides Mr. Z opinions. And we shall be in the playoffs in 2024.
Managers mean little in baseball, especially compared to basketball and of course football. Because it's so much less of a team sport. They matter but talent is 95% of it.
 

sf1giantfan

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I believe attitude or at least the experience is the difference. With reports of the players basically giving up or only caring about themselves. Caring more about card games than the baseball games says a lot of about the players lack of respect. With Melvin wanting to be a Giants manager his whole life :whistle: I think the players will see his seriousness and thrive under his direction. The players not respecting Kap showed that after the all-star break. 2024 will be a good year for the Giants. :clap: I believe.
 

tzill

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They really could have left him with a contract that went through 2024 only. Maybe that made Melvin too nervous to commit but I would have preferred that. Sure, the Giants can still let FZ go after the 2024 season if it is another disappointment but it seems less likely that would happen with this extension.
No way BoMel signs with a lame duck GM.
 

tzill

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We have to take the good with the bad. I think Melvin is going to have a lot of pull with his experience, that is of course why they hired him. So hopefully that also means some of his opinions overrides Mr. Z opinions. And we shall be in the playoffs in 2024.
They are different people with different approaches. I think part of the problem was that Kap was too lock step with FZ. BoMel is his own guy with gravitas. I think this is going to work really well..
 

tzill

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I am not certain Melvin makes the difference. Maybe he does. But for the sake of argument, let's say he improves 5 games over Kapler. That would put the Giants' record at 84-78. That would have tied them with the D-Backs but would have still missed the playoffs based on the tiebreaker. It is possible, with some improvements here and there, that the Giants could make the playoffs in 2024. But the NL West won't get any easier.
If he's a 5 game improvement over Kap I'd be overjoyed. But that can't be the only improvement. The roster also needs a 6 game improvement. 90-72 gets us in.
 

calsnowskier

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Maybe I'm a kool-aid drinker but I have faith in FZ. He'll adapt and adjust.
Certainly possible. There is no argument that he is intelligent. Maybe he sees how his strategy over the last 5 years a) didn’t appeal to the fans AT ALL, and b) didn’t CLEARLY advance the health of the org in any serious way. Hopefully BoMel in his ear will be enough to direct his evil tendencies to be wielded for good instead.

But I don’t see the evidence that FZ is capable of making these changes. I hope you are right and I am wrong.
 

calsnowskier

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They are different people with different approaches. I think part of the problem was that Kap was too lock step with FZ. BoMel is his own guy with gravitas. I think this is going to work really well..
This is what gives me hope.
 
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