Manager Situation

[calsnowskier]

Wow.

FZ was just on KNBR with Tom and Copes. He was asked point blank if Kap would be back next year, and FZ pretty much danced around the question.

The only thing worse than getting the “vote of confidence” is NOT getting the “vote of confidence”. I am not certain Kap will be back next year. And I have heard quite a bit of chatter about BoMel coming home after the disaster that is the Padres.

 

[stanford the manford]

Hopefully a decision on FZ is made before a managerial change. I’m on the fence about Kap, but don’t think any manager could win with this roster

 

[sf1giantfan]

Hopefully a decision on FZ is made before a managerial change. I’m on the fence about Kap, but don’t think any manager could win with this roster

I have to disagree especially with the word coming out about the players spending more time playing cards than caring about the game. Kap is the manager, should be the leader but to me he is not respected by the players. I think in the article Yaz and a couple other guys brought it up but nothing was done about it. That has to be on the manager, and if he doesn’t take care of it he should have brought it to the front office. We need a manager the players respect.

 

[stanford the manford]

I have to disagree especially with the word coming out about the players spending more time playing cards than caring about the game. Kap is the manager, should be the leader but to me he is not respected by the players. I think in the article Yaz and a couple other guys brought it up but nothing was done about it. That has to be on the manager, and if he doesn’t take care of it he should have brought it to the front office. We need a manager the players respect.

Don't disagree, but if FZ is on a short lesh, better to let a new FO choose the manager that matches their plan.

 

[sf1giantfan]

Don't disagree, but if FZ is on a short lesh, better to let a new FO choose the manager that matches their plan.

Ahh good point

 

[stanford the manford]

Ahh good point

FZ is on the last year of his contract. Ownership should either commit to him (not my preference) or replace him now. We're possibly treading water again with FZ in a lame duck year

 

[calsnowskier]

FZ is on the last year of his contract. Ownership should either commit to him (not my preference) or replace him now. We're possibly treading water again with FZ in a lame duck year

If we could possibly keep him as a farm director or a #2 behind another GM, that would be great. But you can’t take a step back and remain in the same org.

This is what sucks about giving someone a chance in a big role. When it goes bad, it throws the entire org into a tailspin that lasts whoknowshowlong.

 

[stanford the manford]

If we could possibly keep him as a farm director or a #2 behind another GM, that would be great. But you can’t take a step back and remain in the same org.

This is what sucks about giving someone a chance in a big role. When it goes bad, it throws the entire org into a tailspin that lasts whoknowshowlong.

I guess my point is ownership should know all they need to know about FZ at this point. Either they are committed to him and give a vote of confidence by extending his contract and let him either commit to Kap or a new manager or they buy his last year out.

I really don't think we can go into '24 with Kap on the hot seat or a new manager operating with a lame duck FO.

Andrew Baggerly made an interesting observation today on KNBR. Gabe's style is hands off in the club house. That worked great in '21 when we had Posey and (quirky) Belt. No one with the gravitas to take up that mantle in '23 and apparently that's what he needs to keep players motivated. Kinda agree with Bags on this

 

[calsnowskier]

I guess my point is ownership should know all they need to know about FZ at this point. Either they are committed to him and give a vote of confidence by extending his contract and let him either commit to Kap or a new manager or they buy his last year out.

I really don't think we can go into '24 with Kap on the hot seat or a new manager operating with a lame duck FO.

Andrew Baggerly made an interesting observation today on KNBR. Gabe's style is hands off in the club house. That worked great in '21 when we had Posey and (quirky) Belt. No one with the gravitas to take up that mantle in '23 and apparently that's what he needs to keep players motivated. Kinda agree with Bags on this

I don’t disagree at all. And the argument CAN be made that FZ needed to strip the org down to the bolts and rebuild from the bottom up, and that takes time to see any sprouting flowers. But I look at what is in the system and while I acknowledge the farm is deeper, I just don’t see any gems. Harry MIGHT be a star. Lucy MIGHT be a star (but he is a holdover from pre-FZ). Matos MIGHT be a nice starter (again, pre-FZ). Schmitt, Beck, Winn, Whisenhunt may be good, but WAY too many question marks right now to rate any of them as hits.

Again, 5 years and only adding ONE true blue chipper to the entire farm (MAYBE Arias, but we are at least 2 years away from really projecting that on him). That just isn’t enough for me. After 5 years, I think it isn’t an unfair expectation to have THREE solid blue-chippers added to the org AND have decent depth.

 

[filosofy29]

I don’t disagree at all. And the argument CAN be made that FZ needed to strip the org down to the bolts and rebuild from the bottom up, and that takes time to see any sprouting flowers. But I look at what is in the system and while I acknowledge the farm is deeper, I just don’t see any gems. Harry MIGHT be a star. Lucy MIGHT be a star (but he is a holdover from pre-FZ). Matos MIGHT be a nice starter (again, pre-FZ). Schmitt, Beck, Winn, Whisenhunt may be good, but WAY too many question marks right now to rate any of them as hits.

Again, 5 years and only adding ONE true blue chipper to the entire farm (MAYBE Arias, but we are at least 2 years away from really projecting that on him). That just isn’t enough for me. After 5 years, I think it isn’t an unfair expectation to have THREE solid blue-chippers added to the org AND have decent depth.

This ^. Especially when budget is no issue (I.e. - Will Wilson). We ain’t the rAy’s

 

[calsnowskier]

This ^. Especially when budget is no issue (I.e. - Will Wilson). We ain’t the rAy’s

I don’t really want to attack the Wilson trade too much, because I am a big fan of the strategy. It just didn’t work.

But when you merge that with the fact that there are only THREE players in the first 21 picks from that draft to not have at least a cuppo, and the Giants have TWO of them (Bishop and Wilson) highlights either REALLY bad scouting or REALLY bad development (or both).

I just don’t see enough in FZ’s resume over the last 5 years to warrant him sticking.

 

[msgkings322]

Gabe Kapler just got fired

I guess the players stopped playing for him

 

[msgkings322]

Not sure this helps but might as well try, I think he did pretty well with what he had

 

[calsnowskier]

Wow.

Not even allowed to go through the Willie Mac ceremony tonight or the final weekend. This is shocking.

I assume Correa is the interim manager?

 

[tzill]

You'd think FZ has someone lined up.

Wotus?

Melvin?

 

[calsnowskier]

Not sure this helps but might as well try, I think he did pretty well with what he had

Gotta figure the Brebbia thing had such bad optics that the FO/ownership couldn’t let it pass.

 

[filosofy29]

I don’t really want to attack the Wilson trade too much, because I am a big fan of the strategy. It just didn’t work.

But when you merge that with the fact that there are only THREE players in the first 21 picks from that draft to not have at least a cuppo, and the Giants have TWO of them (Bishop and Wilson) highlights either REALLY bad scouting or REALLY bad development (or both).

I just don’t see enough in FZ’s resume over the last 5 years to warrant him sticking.

You misinterpreted what I meant, when we CAN do those things (which we should), all the more reasons we should have more blue chips.

 

[msgkings322]

You'd think FZ has someone lined up.

Wotus?

Melvin?

anti-Semitic bastard

 

[calsnowskier]

You misinterpreted what I meant, when we CAN do those things (which we should), all the more reasons we should have more blue chips.

That’s how I took your comment. I wasn’t intending to COUNTER your opinion, but rather expand on it.

 

[filosofy29]

You'd think FZ has someone lined up.

Wotus?

Melvin?

Hopefully not another puppet. He liked having dissenting voices supposedly when he hired Scott Harris. Why not one behind the bench?