LT Options

[HaroldSeattle]

There are some players on over the cap that aren't on Spotrac.

DeAngelo Tyson, DT - future/reserve ($675,000)
Stanley Jean-Baptiste, CB - Practice ($525,000)
Drew Nowak, C - future/reserve ($525,000)
George Farmer, CB - Practice ($450,000)
Justin Hamilton, DT - Practice ($450,000)
Trovon Reed, CB - future/reserve ($450,000)
Will Pericak, C - Practice ($450,000)
Antwan Goodley, WR - Practice ($450,000)
Deshon Foxx, WR - Practice ($450,000)
Robert Smith, S - future/reserve ($450,000)
Brandon Cottom, FB - Practice ($450,000)

So, it looks like over the cap includes these contracts ($5.775 million) where spotrac doesn't. As far as I understand these contracts, they don't go against the cap unless the player is added to the active roster - so it looks like over the cap is playing it safe and assuming all of them make it - where spotrac just ignores them. I could be wrong - but that's what it appears like.

Other discrepancies include John Shirley ($525,000 vs. $450,000).

The other, and most glaring, discrepancy is that the websites don't agree on the estimated salary cap. Over the Cap has an estimated cap of $150,199,087, where Spotrac has an estimated cap of $154,000,000.

Thanks for the info. Guess we'll have to wait to see how the cap shakes out. Sure hope Spotrac is closer to being correct.

 

[Uhsplit]

With someone better then Okung, Uhsplit? The Seahawks can't afford to go further backwards on the OL then they have so far. They just can't. The offense couldn't function if it does and if the offense can't function the defense will break down also.
You all need to accept that resigning Okung is a must and make the cuts that have to be made. Hell cutting or trading Graham would solve the problem for the most part and that's just a example, cap space is always flexable, just a matter of who is more expendable. Given the state of talent on the OL Okung is not expendable just yet.

No, I keep harping on the fact that it will be the financial impact that being the reason the team moves forward without Okung. That is solely my opinion. I do not think the team will improve at LT initially, but the millions in cap savings will allow the team to resign it's depth players.
Look at the offense's #'s without Okung in the line up (we have plenty of data). For some reason we give up 1/2 sack more per game when Okung is in the line up. All other stats remain similar whether Okung plays or not, ie pass yards, runs yards, TD's. Regarding wins, we are 12-2 in games Mr.Okung has missed in the last 4 years.

A question I had that was passed over, is knowing what we know about Okung, would you all be as adamant about signing him if he was a FA after playing for Dallas, or Buffalo, or Miami, or any team other than I our own?
I would think we would be half crazy reaching out to a guy with his history, unless a great value.

 

[MrS]

its true that our offense seems to not slow down at all without okung, the only reason i can see to keep him is for continuity. $10m per doesnt sound worth it to me. if he will sign a one year $6m or so deal to prove himself then i would say yes, probably unlikely though.

and even if we do that, i still want a draft pick to compete with him and as insurance in case it doesnt work out or he does prove himself and gets a big deal the year after that.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

A question I had that was passed over, is knowing what we know about Okung, would you all be as adamant about signing him if he was a FA after playing for Dallas, or Buffalo, or Miami, or any team other than I our own?
I would think we would be half crazy reaching out to a guy with his history, unless a great value.

If Okung was from another team, I may not advocate signing him specifically, but for sure I'd be adamant about improving the OL by what ever means necessary.

There just isn't a chance for the Seahawks if the OL takes a step backwards, the OL already is dragging the team down as is. Surely you saw that last year?

As for Okung history, let me point out that none of the injuries he's had were major type injuries that linger from then on.

 

[Logicallylethal]

At this point given Okung's circumstances, while unfortunate for him(current injury, injury history, representing himself), is a big plus for the Seahawks.

Not having an agent means that no team can communicate with Okung until the day free agency starts. If I'm a team looking to sign a cornerstone left tackle with a long history of injuries I would want updates on Okung's recovery progress.

With Okung teams will be left in the dark. That gives the Seahawks a huge advantage. They know Okung, they know the severity of the injury and probably the time table for recovery and the likelihood he returns and can still produce at a high level.

John Clayton said that Okung's value dropped from a multi year 7-9 mil a year contract to a one year prove it deal in the ball park of 4-6 mil at the most. That's the perfect situation for us.

 

[blstoker]

Thanks for the info. Guess we'll have to wait to see how the cap shakes out. Sure hope Spotrac is closer to being correct.

I know from past off seasons that Spotrac will put those contracts in, but at the value of the contract ($33,000) until they are signed onto the active roster. It looks like overthecap is adding them in at the salary they will have if they were on the active roster already. So, even with those contracts in there - I would bet that the actual salary cap is closer to spotrac than overthecap, though the more of these players that make the team in training camp - then it'll look more and more like overthecap currently has it. Or, in shorter terms - when the Seahawks look toward signing free agents and their own player and rookies - it'll be the money that spotrac is reporting they'll use, but if some of these players make it - they'll either have to save enough money to account for it - or they'll have to cut someone to make room for it.

 

[blstoker]

At this point given Okung's circumstances, while unfortunate for him(current injury, injury history, representing himself), is a big plus for the Seahawks.

Not having an agent means that no team can communicate with Okung until the day free agency starts. If I'm a team looking to sign a cornerstone left tackle with a long history of injuries I would want updates on Okung's recovery progress.

With Okung teams will be left in the dark. That gives the Seahawks a huge advantage. They know Okung, they know the severity of the injury and probably the time table for recovery and the likelihood he returns and can still produce at a high level.

John Clayton said that Okung's value dropped from a multi year 7-9 mil a year contract to a one year prove it deal in the ball park of 4-6 mil at the most. That's the perfect situation for us.

That's exactly what I thought, which is why I changed my stance that we should move on from him to we should keep him.

 

[chf]

I guess I just think people are being WAAAAY to optimistic about how Seattle is going to make out like bandits in this situation.

Teams were willing to offer up 6 million per for a notoriously overweight undermotivated Seahawks guard who had an injury history too.

A once pro bowl LT, who has some injury issues, but has never had any other red flags? Isn't going to get more than a 1 year 4 million dollar offer from any other team?

Yeah, no.

Or, at least can I have some of what you other guys are smoking?

 

[Anointed One]

With an agent, I think he could get between 9-11 million per...

W/out an agent, I think he settles for 7, maybe 8 million per...

 

[HaroldSeattle]

I guess I just think people are being WAAAAY to optimistic about how Seattle is going to make out like bandits in this situation.

Teams were willing to offer up 6 million per for a notoriously overweight undermotivated Seahawks guard who had an injury history too.

A once pro bowl LT, who has some injury issues, but has never had any other red flags? Isn't going to get more than a 1 year 4 million dollar offer from any other team?

Yeah, no.

Or, at least can I have some of what you other guys are smoking?

I think your right. Okung is going to be offered some big bucks, it's up to the Seahawks to resign him him or come up with a plan B. Heck they may have no choice but to come up with a plan B.

 

[chf]

With an agent, I think he could get between 9-11 million per...

W/out an agent, I think he settles for 7, maybe 8 million per...

Why? He can't do math?

I mean, again, I agree with you that an agent would/could get him more. But a 4 million dollar/ year (the extreme of your numbers) bath?

If you take the other end of your estimate, that would be a 1 million dollar per year savings. I can actually see that, because the agent would ordinarily take 10%. Okung could make the same, and pass along the $1 million/yr savings to the team (assuming a 4 year/40 million deal).

And to repeat, the Jets offered Carpenter 6/yr as a guard.

No way a LT who's been to a probowl gets offered 7 million/per.

 

[Anointed One]

Why? He can't do math?

I mean, again, I agree with you that an agent would/could get him more. But a 4 million dollar/ year (the extreme of your numbers) bath?

If you take the other end of your estimate, that would be a 1 million dollar per year savings. I can actually see that, because the agent would ordinarily take 10%. Okung could make the same, and pass along the $1 million/yr savings to the team (assuming a 4 year/40 million deal).

And to repeat, the Jets offered Carpenter 6/yr as a guard.

No way a LT who's been to a probowl gets offered 7 million/per.

I'm just the messenger.... Just sharing what John Clayton shared last week on 710 ESPN Radio...

... and he went to the Pro Bowl THREE years ago... It's not like he went last year...

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Okung going to make just a bit less then Trent Williams did. By a bit I means a few million over all. Heavens knows what Williams would of made on the open market. The lack of decent OL in the league has gotten critical, the NFL may have to pass some new rules that give the OL a big edge or risk losing franchise QBs, it's that bad.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Why? He can't do math?

I mean, again, I agree with you that an agent would/could get him more. But a 4 million dollar/ year (the extreme of your numbers) bath?

If you take the other end of your estimate, that would be a 1 million dollar per year savings. I can actually see that, because the agent would ordinarily take 10%. Okung could make the same, and pass along the $1 million/yr savings to the team (assuming a 4 year/40 million deal).

And to repeat, the Jets offered Carpenter 6/yr as a guard.

No way a LT who's been to a probowl gets offered 7 million/per.

Injuries will be the reason Okung's numbers will not be where he wants them. Too many red flags. If a team does spend that much for a broken down player, so be it.

 

[blstoker]

I guess I just think people are being WAAAAY to optimistic about how Seattle is going to make out like bandits in this situation.

Teams were willing to offer up 6 million per for a notoriously overweight undermotivated Seahawks guard who had an injury history too.

A once pro bowl LT, who has some injury issues, but has never had any other red flags? Isn't going to get more than a 1 year 4 million dollar offer from any other team?

Yeah, no.

Or, at least can I have some of what you other guys are smoking?

Jake Long NFL Football Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

This is why teams don't always just give pro bowl LTs a lot of money just because they used to be good, but also happen to be injury prone. Long had only had injury issues for 2 years, and he hit the open market @ 29 years of age - 4x pro bowler and 1x all pro - and received a whopping $1.5 miilion. Okung has shown that he's just one play away from being an expensive bench warmer.

No one knows how the situation will play itself out, we'll just have to see. As far as having an agent is concerned, not only are agents more experienced at negotiating - and so just assuming that he could get what they would get him isn't a guarantee - but there is a lot more to being an agent than just negotiating contracts.
Just assuming that because someone does something on your behalf doesn't mean that it is automatic that you can do it just as well for yourself. Again, time will only tell.

 

[chf]

I'm just the messenger.... Just sharing what John Clayton shared last week on 710 ESPN Radio...

... and he went to the Pro Bowl THREE years ago... It's not like he went last year...

Gotcha. Hey, I hope Clayton is right, and we do save a big chunk o' money. But I'm skeptical.

 

[chf]

If a team does spend that much for a broken down player, so be it.

Many of us would have said that Carpenter was injury prone and undermotivated, and a general waste of space too.

Teams will take a chance on talent, especially when that talent is in short supply.

Supply and demand.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Many of us would have said that Carpenter was injury prone and undermotivated, and a general waste of space too.

Teams will take a chance on talent, especially when that talent is in short supply.

Supply and demand.

That's true too. If we can resign Okung to a 1yr prove it deal, cool. If some team wants to throw serious cash at him, then he's gone and onto plan B and plan C.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Jake Long NFL Football Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

This is why teams don't always just give pro bowl LTs a lot of money just because they used to be good, but also happen to be injury prone. Long had only had injury issues for 2 years, and he hit the open market @ 29 years of age - 4x pro bowler and 1x all pro - and received a whopping $1.5 miilion. Okung has shown that he's just one play away from being an expensive bench warmer.

No one knows how the situation will play itself out, we'll just have to see. As far as having an agent is concerned, not only are agents more experienced at negotiating - and so just assuming that he could get what they would get him isn't a guarantee - but there is a lot more to being an agent than just negotiating contracts.
Just assuming that because someone does something on your behalf doesn't mean that it is automatic that you can do it just as well for yourself. Again, time will only tell.

Jakes second contract was 4 years $36 million, then he suffered two back to back ACL injuries, Okung has never suffered from a serious injury like that, he's going to get a big pay day.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

That's true too. If we can resign Okung to a 1yr prove it deal, cool. If some team wants to throw serious cash at him, then he's gone and onto plan B and plan C.

Don't you think plan B and C includes missing the playoffs?