LT Options

[HaroldSeattle]

Yeah a trade is a long shot for sure. However I don't think Pete is OK with the crappy OL last year and expect the Seahawks to focus on correcting that. You seem to think that team went cheap on the OL on purpose, I don't. It ended up that way because nobody they drafted was worthy of a second contract on the OL.

By the way Okung is only 28, so he's in his prime, not a " old man".

 

[seahawksfan234]

Unfortunately the Seahawks have a lot more holes on their offensive line than just LT. I'd move on from Russell Okung. He's injured frequently - which will only increase with age, and was once above average, but since then has fallen into the average/below average category.

Cordy Glenn: Is a guy I would target for LT. PFF grades him as their 9th best tackle in the league, and he rated 7th in the league in pass protection. He allowed just 2 sacks and 2 hits all season. At only 26, a long term contract wouldn't be a liability, and he has been durable; starting 48/48 games the past three years. His floor is going to be $10m a year, but the Seahawks over the past 3 years have put around an average of $9m per year at LT, so in terms of cap distribution Glenn wouldn't be a tremendous much more than we've previously been spending here. As much as I love Jimmy Graham as a player, I feel as if the Seahawks are better off with Glenn and another top tier FA guard than a top tier TE. When the team had good pass protection last year, they thrived.

Richie Incognito: Could be a solution inside, and given his age he could come cheap. He had a terrific season with Buffalo this year, arguably one of the top interior offensive linemen in the NFL in 2015.

Evan Mathis: I still think it was a huge mistake to let Mathis sign with the Broncos, he would've been a huge help for our offensive line considering that at LG, Justin Britt gave up 8 sacks 14 hits and 71 pressures in 2015. That is in comparison to the 19 pressures that Evan Mathis gave up.

If it was up to me; I'd sign Glenn and either Incognito or Mathis, cut Jimmy Graham to pay for it, then draft another G to replace Sweezy. Doesn't address RT or C, but you can only do so much.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Unfortunately the Seahawks have a lot more holes on their offensive line than just LT. I'd move on from Russell Okung. He's injured frequently - which will only increase with age, and was once above average, but since then has fallen into the average/below average category.

Cordy Glenn: Is a guy I would target for LT. PFF grades him as their 9th best tackle in the league, and he rated 7th in the league in pass protection. He allowed just 2 sacks and 2 hits all season. At only 26, a long term contract wouldn't be a liability, and he has been durable; starting 48/48 games the past three years. His floor is going to be $10m a year, but the Seahawks over the past 3 years have put around an average of $9m per year at LT, so in terms of cap distribution Glenn wouldn't be a tremendous much more than we've previously been spending here. As much as I love Jimmy Graham as a player, I feel as if the Seahawks are better off with Glenn and another top tier FA guard than a top tier TE. When the team had good pass protection last year, they thrived.

Richie Incognito: Could be a solution inside, and given his age he could come cheap. He had a terrific season with Buffalo this year, arguably one of the top interior offensive linemen in the NFL in 2015.

Evan Mathis: I still think it was a huge mistake to let Mathis sign with the Broncos, he would've been a huge help for our offensive line considering that at LG, Justin Britt gave up 8 sacks 14 hits and 71 pressures in 2015. That is in comparison to the 19 pressures that Evan Mathis gave up.

If it was up to me; I'd sign Glenn and either Incognito or Mathis, cut Jimmy Graham to pay for it, then draft another G to replace Sweezy. Doesn't address RT or C, but you can only do so much.

If the Bills let Glenn slip away he would indeed be a nice piece for the Seahawks OL, but I doubt they let him get away. As for the other two you mentioned

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Unfortunately the Seahawks have a lot more holes on their offensive line than just LT. I'd move on from Russell Okung. He's injured frequently - which will only increase with age, and was once above average, but since then has fallen into the average/below average category.

Cordy Glenn: Is a guy I would target for LT. PFF grades him as their 9th best tackle in the league, and he rated 7th in the league in pass protection. He allowed just 2 sacks and 2 hits all season. At only 26, a long term contract wouldn't be a liability, and he has been durable; starting 48/48 games the past three years. His floor is going to be $10m a year, but the Seahawks over the past 3 years have put around an average of $9m per year at LT, so in terms of cap distribution Glenn wouldn't be a tremendous much more than we've previously been spending here. As much as I love Jimmy Graham as a player, I feel as if the Seahawks are better off with Glenn and another top tier FA guard than a top tier TE. When the team had good pass protection last year, they thrived.

Richie Incognito: Could be a solution inside, and given his age he could come cheap. He had a terrific season with Buffalo this year, arguably one of the top interior offensive linemen in the NFL in 2015.

Evan Mathis: I still think it was a huge mistake to let Mathis sign with the Broncos, he would've been a huge help for our offensive line considering that at LG, Justin Britt gave up 8 sacks 14 hits and 71 pressures in 2015. That is in comparison to the 19 pressures that Evan Mathis gave up.

If it was up to me; I'd sign Glenn and either Incognito or Mathis, cut Jimmy Graham to pay for it, then draft another G to replace Sweezy. Doesn't address RT or C, but you can only do so much.

For some reason you didn't mention LG. I feel Britt is the weakest link on the OL, think Gilliam will be OK at RT.

 

[seahawksfan234]

For some reason you didn't mention LG. I feel Britt is the weakest link on the OL, think Gilliam will be OK at RT.

I did mention LG, under Evan Mathis. I mentioned that Justin Britt gave up 8 sacks 14 hits and 71 pressures in 2015, in comparison to the 19 pressures that Mathis gave up.

 

[seahawksfan234]

If the Bills let Glenn slip away he would indeed be a nice piece for the Seahawks OL, but I doubt they let him get away. As for the other two you mentioned

What's wrong with Incognito or Mathis? They're not long term solutions, but both played very well last year and due to their age likely wouldn't be that expensive.

 

[Uhsplit]

By the way Okung is only 28, so he's in his prime, not a " old man".

Chronologically correct, but I would say his best days are behind him.

 

[Uhsplit]

What's wrong with Incognito or Mathis? They're not long term solutions, but both played very well last year and due to their age likely wouldn't be that expensive.

Incognito would be a solid upgrade.

 

[Uhsplit]

Yeah a trade is a long shot for sure. However I don't think Pete is OK with the crappy OL last year and expect the Seahawks to focus on correcting that. You seem to think that team went cheap on the OL on purpose, I don't. It ended up that way because nobody they drafted was worthy of a second contract on the OL.

Let me address this.
The team had no choice financially but to go cheap on the OL last year. They had less than $900k in cap room in 2015. Either that or risk the signings of RW and Wags.
Breno>Gilliam
Carp>Britt
Unger>Lewis
I don't think Pete is good with the OL either. The cap is what has put us in this spot. We still went 10-6 and won a playoff game playing like crap the 1st half of the year. The whole team played poorly in the 1st half of last year, yet we were still in the running in January.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Let me address this.
The team had no choice financially but to go cheap on the OL last year. They had less than $900k in cap room in 2015. Either that or risk the signings of RW and Wags.
Breno>Gilliam
Carp>Britt
Unger>Lewis
I don't think Pete is good with the OL either. The cap is what has put us in this spot. We still went 10-6 and won a playoff game playing like crap the 1st half of the year. The whole team played poorly in the 1st half of last year, yet we were still in the running in January.

Don't look at it as a one year window cap. If Carp or Breno were worthy they would of been resigned and cuts would happen else where. There are always choices. They could of choose not to resign KJ yet, or cut Mebane, etc. They went the route of going young on the OL, but just going to the playoffs as a wildcard is not their goal, so this off season expect the OL to be upgraded.

 

[MrS]

I think continuity on the OL is huge and starting over again would be a replay of last year. I think it would be wise to keep our starters in place with the exception of okung if we can upgrade his spot.

I would draft some guys for competition at G and C but under the expectation that our starters stay the same to start the season at least.

Any chance we make a big move up the draft for an elite OT?

 

[dude82]

I think continuity on the OL is huge and starting over again would be a replay of last year. I think it would be wise to keep our starters in place with the exception of okung if we can upgrade his spot.

I would draft some guys for competition at G and C but under the expectation that our starters stay the same to start the season at least.

Any chance we make a big move up the draft for an elite OT?

I think it depends on where things stand with Okung by draft weekend, whether teams near the top of the 1st round are willing to trade down and whether Schneider is determined to make the offensive line the top priority this year. Obviously Okung signing elsewhere before the draft starts would necessitate the Seahawks getting a new left tackle and I don't think it's a position they're gonna want to mess around with by taking a defensive lineman and converting him like they have for other positions along the line. The first step if they lose Okung is deciding how much of a priority to make replacing him.

If they place a high priority on replacing him, the next step would be finding a trading partner somewhere in the top half or top third of the first round and making a deal. If getting a franchise left tackle is the priority, then Schneider should be willing to give up a decent haul of picks to get one. He can always recoup as much of the value of those picks as possible later and use some of those picks to go after linemen at other positions to at least compete with the guys we have there now.

Then again, he and the coaching staff may very well think that Gilliam or Bailey are perfectly capable of stepping in for Okung and if that's the case, we'll probably stay put or even trade down to address other needs. Let's just see what happens with Okung first.

 

[Uhsplit]

Don't look at it as a one year window cap. If Carp or Breno were worthy they would of been resigned and cuts would happen else where. There are always choices. They could of choose not to resign KJ yet, or cut Mebane, etc. They went the route of going young on the OL, but just going to the playoffs as a wildcard is not their goal, so this off season expect the OL to be upgraded.

I don't think I look at it as a 1 year window cap. I was illustrating how little cap space there was last year.
Regarding worthiness in being resigned, Maxwell was worthy. Very worthy in our scheme. We flat out did not have what it would take to keep him. Same with Tate, who was easier to replace.
Next will be Okung, however his injury status gives the Seahawks a little leverage. Harold, you probably remember I have been down on Okung for the last 2 years or so. In beating the same drum, he pissed me off when he held out as a rookie, back in the day when the top drafted rookies were paid the same as established stars. He NEVER played to his draft status, oft injured, and penalty prone.
If you guys remember, OL was one of our biggest needs going into the 2015 draft. We had just lost Unger in a trade and Carp to FA. Britt had a bad year at RT, Okung missed 2 games, and Sweezy was the only guy we could rely on. Even though it was well known that OL was a monster need, it was not addressed until 4th round when the team took Poole first (never made the 53) and then Glowinski. Sokoli was drafted in the 6th round.
My point is even though everyone knows we need OL help, I would be surprised if Okung is kept, Sweezy gets resigned (50-50?), or we spend much in FA to address the OL.
I would not be surprised to see JS trade up if he likes a LT enough. We have a 2nd or 2 3rd rounders as ammo.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

I don't think I look at it as a 1 year window cap. I was illustrating how little cap space there was last year.
Regarding worthiness in being resigned, Maxwell was worthy. Very worthy in our scheme. We flat out did not have what it would take to keep him. Same with Tate, who was easier to replace.
Next will be Okung, however his injury status gives the Seahawks a little leverage. Harold, you probably remember I have been down on Okung for the last 2 years or so. In beating the same drum, he pissed me off when he held out as a rookie, back in the day when the top drafted rookies were paid the same as established stars. He NEVER played to his draft status, oft injured, and penalty prone.
If you guys remember, OL was one of our biggest needs going into the 2015 draft. We had just lost Unger in a trade and Carp to FA. Britt had a bad year at RT, Okung missed 2 games, and Sweezy was the only guy we could rely on. Even though it was well known that OL was a monster need, it was not addressed until 4th round when the team took Poole first (never made the 53) and then Glowinski. Sokoli was drafted in the 6th round.
My point is even though everyone knows we need OL help, I would be surprised if Okung is kept, Sweezy gets resigned (50-50?), or we spend much in FA to address the OL.
I would not be surprised to see JS trade up if he likes a LT enough. We have a 2nd or 2 3rd rounders as ammo.

As far as Maxwell being worthy, maybe but the Seahawks have had success replacing that position yearly and the Eagles went full retard with their contract offer. So they let him go, they replaced Tate rather quickly and even upgraded IMO. However the Seahawks don't seem to have the same luck at drafting OL. Okung is the best they have ever done.

Yes I do remember your dislike for Okung and it's understandable but given their track record drafting OL it seems foolish to send him packing before you know his replacement is the real deal and not some dud like the OL they've drafted. Costly? Sure, but better a bird in the hand then two in the bush as they say. IMO it's more costly to draft crap like Britt.

Guess what I'm saying is, until they show they can actually draft some talented OL I'd just as soon pay for the one decent OL they do have. That would be Okung, even if he hasn't lived up to expectations.

 

[MrS]

Okung was a no brainer at the time, it seems every othr OL pick has left everyone scratching their heads. And not one has really worked out, i guess you could say sweezy but he is average at best.

Trading up for a top OT, probably have to be into the top 15 if not top 10, would be acceptable as long as they take the no brainer.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Okung was a no brainer at the time, it seems every othr OL pick has left everyone scratching their heads. And not one has really worked out, i guess you could say sweezy but he is average at best.

Trading up for a top OT, probably have to be into the top 15 if not top 10, would be acceptable as long as they take the no brainer.

I won't mind it at all, in fact I endorse it. However is it possible to do with out getting robbed?

 

[Uhsplit]

I won't mind it at all, in fact I endorse it. However is it possible to do with out getting robbed?

We wish, but the draft is such a crap shoot. My guess is it is harder to evaluate OL than many other positions, but again...who knows.
According to this table, we would have to give up our 1st, 2nd, 3rd round picks to move up to #13 from #26. Damn expensive. Throw in the 3rd round comp pick (we hope to get for Maxwell) and we move up to #11. Flipping damn expensive.
Our FO has some tough decisions coming up.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

We wish, but the draft is such a crap shoot. My guess is it is harder to evaluate OL than many other positions, but again...who knows.
According to this table, we would have to give up our 1st, 2nd, 3rd round picks to move up to #13 from #26. Damn expensive. Throw in the 3rd round comp pick (we hope to get for Maxwell) and we move up to #11. Flipping damn expensive.
Our FO has some tough decisions coming up.

Perhaps the OT they think is a stud doesn't get drafted in the top 15 ( trying to think positive ). It is a crap shoot when judging OT. I feel they got to go about evaluating OL differently then they have in the past. Yes I know they've tried drafting in the first round, tried drafting in number in lower rounds, tried turning DL and TE into OL. However what they haven'y changed is type of player they draft for the OL. Seems like they always go for the maulers with a mean streak who can run block ( in theory ) and convince themselves they can teach them to pass block. I can't think of one other OL other then Okung that doesn't fall into this category. IMO what they need to do is draft players that look good in pass blocking and rely on run blocking scheme to turn them into decent run blockers.

 

[MrS]

That would be a hefty price

 

[HaroldSeattle]

That would be a hefty price

Yeah it is and given the fact that many don't pan out, it doesn't seem to be a option. Back to sprinkling their draft magic to the OL. They've done it for every other unit, time for them to hit it on the OL.