Lions get the 16th pick

[lionstop1]

For me, if you're constantly preaching running the ball and being good at, prove that's what you want to do. I feel like if Elliot was there and they passed....they dont really want a great ground game. So what if we have AA, he will still be a part of the rushing attack.

We've never seen Staff with a ground game. Id love it.

 

[lionstop1]

And Ragland refused to run the 40 at his proday. I really dont want him now.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

@Big_Blue_72
Is this that keeping you in check you spoke of with us? I'm not into attempting to upgrade with same caliber talent level. I like home run upgrades.

yes, this is what I alluded to with keep me in check. I like home run upgrades as well but you're not going to convince that any draft pick is automatic whether it's a choice of yours or mine or LS1 or any one else. I do not expect @lionstop1 to deviate from what he has been for years. This isn't about I'm defense first guy and he's offense first guy. I respect LS1 perspective and love reading his thoughts. I want him to stay the same as he's been for years ( I read that from a thunder post). I love reading what his thoughts are. It makes me think and open up talks.

First of all FA is far from done. I currently see a suspect OL that I hope gets better chemistry, cohesion and continuity this upcoming year. It all depends on how things shake out with personnel and JBC. We have a good offensive corps of M. Jones, Tate, Riddick, AA and EE. That is a very solid start. ZZ is unproven as much as Fuller as is TJ Jones. Their success as much as continued improvements that we saw from Satfford in last 7 games will be detrimental to play of Oline this year. I cannot automatically expect same/better improvements with Oline with only small sample size. OL blocking scheme may be more complicated this year with same personnel. There's no telling.

I'll continue in next post

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

The OL has to open holes or it won't matter who the fuckin RB is or how good he appeared to be facing CFB DLines as he'll be facing much tougher Def in NFL

This is what scares me about drafting a running back. If you don't have the holes to run through -- it doesn't really matter who you hand the ball off too.

Maybe the Lions plan to try and upgrade in FA on the OL or believe, when healthy, they will be good. If that happens, I'd have no issue with a RB, but as Gandy said -- it'd be Elliot and that's it.

I'd rather seem them go defense, but if there is one skill position player i'd be alright with, it is Elliot.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

And Ragland refused to run the 40 at his proday. I really dont want him now.

Did he run it at the combine? Or is he injured?

Detroit could bring him in and test him.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

For me, if you're constantly preaching running the ball and being good at, prove that's what you want to do. I feel like if Elliot was there and they passed....they dont really want a great ground game. So what if we have AA, he will still be a part of the rushing attack.

We've never seen Staff with a ground game. Id love it.

in no way was I objective to your choice of Elliott. There's more to it than just adding a RB.

I love reading your thoughts so stay with them and keep posting them.

Yes, I will have some objections here and there and they may be only now or for a few days or possibly permanently, idk.

You still have to rely upon a much improved run blocking Oine no matter how it shakes out. Zeke had massive holes to run through at OSU. He's not going to see that in NFL on a play by play basis. I have no question regarding his talent skill level. NOone in how he projects to NFL. Projections and what you'll see may be on opposite ends. possibly, maybe.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Maybe the Lions plan to try and upgrade in FA on the OL or believe, when healthy, they will be good. If that happens, I'd have no issue with a RB, but as Gandy said -- it'd be Elliot and that's it.

there's never a guarantee with anything. I like the skill set and talent level of Zeke. I don't have faith in Oline as of yet regardless of improvements from last 7 games of 2015. Those improvements cannot be automatically assumed for upcoming year. JBC dumbed down that scheme, imo, and it may get more complicated this year now that he has a full off-season to make tweaks. This isn't mid-season and Lombardi left and jBC has little time to make improvements. It could be a matter where it isn't even a concern but that is the unknown for now.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

And Ragland refused to run the 40 at his proday. I really dont want him now.

Did he run it at the combine? Or is he injured?

Detroit could bring him in and test him.

Ragland ran a 4.72 at the combine. Lots of kids stick with those numbers posted at combine. It was a better time than some expected. Pro day 40 numbers are usually better because they use laser to time and not electronic times. It's not unusual. So, LS1, you don't want a possible 10 yr MLB because he refused to run a 40 at his pro day ?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Ragland ran a 4.72 at the combine. Lots of kids stick with those numbers posted at combine. It was a better time than some expected. Pro day 40 numbers are usually better because they use laser to time and not electronic times. It's not unusual. So, LS1, you don't want a possible 10 yr MLB because he refused to run a 40 at his pro day ?

4.7 for MLB is just fine. I thought maybe he didn't run or something.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I don't have faith in Oline as of yet regardless of improvements from last 7 games of 2015. Those improvements cannot be automatically assumed for upcoming year. JBC dumbed down that scheme, imo, and it may get more complicated this year now that he has a full off-season to make tweaks. This isn't mid-season and Lombardi left and jBC has little time to make improvements. It could be a matter where it isn't even a concern but that is the unknown for now.

The OL definitely scares me -- I think the talent level of teams we played the 2nd half of the season dropped, which helped out the numbers offensively, as well as the change in philosophy.

I think they need an upgrade or significant development at Center and RT. Will be interested to see how the new GM handles the 1st draft.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

4.7 for MLB is just fine. I thought maybe he didn't run or something.

I agree it's fine or even good, for him. Not every MLB is going to run a Keuchly number or even Bobby Wagner number.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

The OL definitely scares me -- I think the talent level of teams we played the 2nd half of the season dropped, which helped out the numbers offensively, as well as the change in philosophy.

I think they need an upgrade or significant development at Center and RT. Will be interested to see how the new GM handles the 1st draft.

I won't use that as an excuse or even a barometer. I agree that it could come into play but they're still NFL teams that allegedly are the very best according to many that post on tHoop and not just our board. I just disagree with those who think that way.

The OL play is still a huge question mark for me from a scheme perspective and personnel combined.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

I think they need an upgrade or significant development at Center and RT. Will be interested to see how the new GM handles the 1st draft.

agree with you here but I'll question whether OT is worthy in draft at #16 or not. It depends on what BQ and scouting staff, coaching staff think regarding can they coach a kid up and is the value there to draft a RT (maybe turns into LT) that early. idk the answer.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

agree with you here but I'll question whether OT is worthy in draft at #16 or not. It depends on what BQ and scouting staff, coaching staff think regarding can they coach a kid up and is the value there to draft a RT (maybe turns into LT) that early. idk the answer.

I was more thinking Reiff to RT and whoever they draft, they view him as a LT.
I agree 16 for a RT is too high.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I won't use that as an excuse or even a barometer. I agree that it could come into play but they're still NFL teams that allegedly are the very best according to many that post on tHoop and not just our board. I just disagree with those who think that way.

The OL play is still a huge question mark for me from a scheme perspective and personnel combined.

Yeah. I wasn't meaning to use it as an excuse, but more of a way for me to temper my expectations going forward.

I think JBC is an upgrade as the OC, but I'm not sold on the OL play yet. I don't know if it was the C or QB making the blocking scheme changed at the line, but too many times we just let players run untouched at Stafford on blitzes.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

I was more thinking Reiff to RT and whoever they draft, they view him as a LT.
I agree 16 for a RT is too high.

Go back and look at all of these CFB draftee OT's and see how many were thrown to the wolves at LT off the cuff. It doesn't happen much cuz they're ill-prepared to come into pro's after being in zone read or option offense and same goes for some CFB pro-style offense. Those CFB LT's can't handle it. You start themm at RT to get them used to NFL nuances/schemes and then see what they have to offer.

I don't want our defense out on the field for 32 minutes a game and getting tired and worn out. These kids in DT's Walker, Reid, Wright are inexperienced and more rotational guys right now. They can improve but I'll still question how much. Ngata is 32, aging, played well last 6 games but is still a huge question in how much impact he'll have.
Taylor and Ziggy are fine as starting DE's but there's no depth at all right now and we need youth there. Levy is highly questionable on what he can or cannot do even if he's a MLB as that hip injury may mean he's nothing until he proves otherwise. Furthermore, having a midget 5' 9" CB like Lawson on the outside is highly suspect. they should have gone after KC CB Sean Smith once Illoka was a no go.

Lots of huge questions for Defense with Lions, imo. FA isn't over though so we'll see.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Yeah. I wasn't meaning to use it as an excuse, but more of a way for me to temper my expectations going forward.

I think JBC is an upgrade as the OC, but I'm not sold on the OL play yet. I don't know if it was the C or QB making the blocking scheme changed at the line, but too many times we just let players run untouched at Stafford on blitzes.

I know you weren't TrustMe. I'll still have as much reservations regarding Oline play as I will DT's with Walker, Wright, Reid because they're nothing more than rotational guys who have very little impact but we've seen some splash plays from them. read aboove post. I have tons more to add to that too for later.

 

[gandydancer]

This is what scares me about drafting a running back. If you don't have the holes to run through -- it doesn't really matter who you hand the ball off too.

Maybe the Lions plan to try and upgrade in FA on the OL or believe, when healthy, they will be good. If that happens, I'd have no issue with a RB, but as Gandy said -- it'd be Elliot and that's it.

I'd rather seem them go defense, but if there is one skill position player i'd be alright with, it is Elliot.

There was holes to run through many times. Don't forget last year at the end under JBC the run game avg almost 20 more yards a game. However IMO the featured back sucked!!!

 

[lionstop1]

Well, I personally think we still have to see what the Oline can put together this year. Keep in mind it was only Tomlinson's and Swanson's first crack at it. Both are supposed to be really good run blockers. I don't see the uncertainty with them as reason not to draft a RB with that type of potential. I'd prefer them have faith in those young guys up front and go with it. The only real need I see is RT.

We need a running game, WITH a strong runner. AA is kind of like a scat-back that can give you some good runs but he isn't the workhorse type the Lions have been missing.

 

[lionstop1]

I mean, what are we really supposed to be doing up front to garauntee that we have a great Oline in place? Draft a OT and slide Rieff over to the right? Sounds good but does that really have to happen before you add a feature back?

I'm not by any means saying Elliot must be the pick though, I'm just stating reasons why he could be.