Lions get the 16th pick

[lionstop1]

@lionstop1, I liked your idea of RT Mitchell Schwartz as it was mentioned between a couple regulars here previously but the FDR in me doesn't want to pay a FA_RT 6M per yr avg when we could be patient and wait to get that LT to be groomed and move Reiff over to RT at that time.

I'm not of the position that many are on this board in that Reiff is an absolute horrible LT because he isn't. People see the two strip sacks Reiff gave up (one vs. Dal DE Demarcus Lawrence in playoff game and then 2015 reg season game vs Den and Demarcus Ware) and the other QB hurries, sacks etc.. Imo, those two plays are overblown when in comparison to Reiff's overall body of work for the last 3 years. JBC has moved back to a man power based scheme and that is much more in line with what the OL skill set is and it showed in those last 6-7 games.

Michael Ola isn't a well known OL in the league so many automatically want to replace him. He did one helluva job manning that RT spot once Waddle was dq' and Lucas was benched. If BQ signs a FA_RT then fine Ola becomes a very good swing OT and that's huge for depth. If BQ drafts an OT then they still have Ola to start out at RT until they feel comfortable with the draftee's ability to start or said draftee beats Ola out in camp/pre-season.

Very much agree here.

 

[Stomp]

Lawson needs to serve as a backup. At this point, that's a good role for him and it is quality

Thats all any of the first rounders are aside from Ramsey(who looks more like a FS) and Robinson who is a serious risk. Hargreaves and apple are not ready to step in and start maybe in 2017.

 

[Stomp]

"An NFL scout who spoke with the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel said that Indiana T Jason Spriggs has "got size, he's got length and does have left tackle type feet."

"He'll continue to rise," the scout said. Another one was slightly more conservative on Spriggs' NFL prospects, telling the Journal-Sentinel, "Maybe he sits a year and works his way into the lineup. Offensive linemen go (early) because there's such a need, but I don't see him being any more than a solid starter." Prognostications aside, one thing we know for certain is that the 6-foot-7, 307-pounder is a flat-out sensational athlete. At the NFL Scouting Combine, he ran the 40-yard dash in 4.94 seconds, showcased his leaping ability with a 9-foot-4 broad jump and worked 31 reps in the bench press. All that was enough to lead Pro Football Focus to term him the most impressive offensive linemen at the combine. A second-round projection's logical here, though Spriggs could sneak into the first round."- Rotoworld

 

[Stomp]

WR
Combine Review, Early draft preview - part 2

DT
Combine Review/Early Draft - Part 3, By Adam Klepp

LB
Combine Review/Early Draft Preview - Part 4

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Thats all any of the first rounders are aside from Ramsey(who looks more like a FS) and Robinson who is a serious risk. Hargreaves and apple are not ready to step in and start maybe in 2017.

I could see Hargreaves getting his feet wet in nickle packages similar to what Chi did with Kyle Fuller unless a team is extremely desperate.

IMO, Apple is very over-rated and is a poor mans Bradley Robey. Media hypes him up for his physical measureables and combine numbers. He has a LOT of work to do to clean up technique. He has heavy feet in press and with underneath routes as he doesn't have good instincts to recognize. He has a hitch when turning for deep routes also and that leaves him trailing quite often.

agree with Ramsey being more FS but capable of moving around in various packages. He could handle a few plays on the outside with the correct matchup vs a slower, non quick twitch, non savvy route runner.

imo.

 

[lionstop1]

Thats all any of the first rounders are aside from Ramsey(who looks more like a FS) and Robinson who is a serious risk. Hargreaves and apple are not ready to step in and start maybe in 2017.

Maybe you're right but Im not sure where you're getting that from bro. All indications point to at least 5 CBs going in the 1st round and considered day 1 starters.

Teams are starving for good corners nowadays and it has become a premium position.

 

[lionstop1]

They have Hargreaves going very early in the draft. I cant imagine he would sit for whatever team he plays for.

 

[Stomp]

Maybe you're right but Im not sure where you're getting that from bro. All indications point to at least 5 CBs going in the 1st round and considered day 1 starters.

Teams are starving for good corners nowadays and it has become a premium position.

Cornerback has a very steep learning curve most of these "day 1 starters" face maybe 1 or 2 elite level college talents per year in the NFL they'll be facing those guys every week. Thats is the reason cornerback has the highest first round bust rate of any position. I can't think of many corners that stepped in day 1 and really did a good job in coverage. Look at last year Marcus Peters with the Chiefs he had 8 ints which looks great, but he also allowed 1000+ yards and 10 TDs. I'll take a guy like veteran Sean Smith(also KC) everyday over Peters he only had 2 ints, but only allowed 530 yards and 3 TDs. We can find a solid number 2 in FA at a decent price(Sterling Moore from Tampa he's had 2 solid seasons in a row with Tampa and Dallas and is expected to go cheap) or just develop one of the guys we already have like Austin did with Slay.

 

[Stomp]

They have Hargreaves going very early in the draft. I cant imagine he would sit for whatever team he plays for.

I'm sure there were people who thought the same thing about guys like Dee milliner and Morris Claiborne. Hell even Charles Woodson looked pretty shitty at the start of his career with the Raiders and look at him now probably first ballot HOF. Patrick Peterson is another guy looks great now, but allowed 24 TD's over his first 3 seasons.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

We can find a solid number 2 in FA at a decent price(Sterling Moore from Tampa he's had 2 solid seasons in a row with Tampa and Dallas and is expected to go cheap) or just develop one of the guys we already have like Austin did with Slay.

I'm not always on board with the new love that CB's need to be at 6' or taller but there is some validity to a degree.

I like Lawson quite a bit and he has very fluid hips and feet, still a little to hands-on and latches quite a bit, but I am not confident in his ability to shadow bigger, quicker twitch, savvy route runners. He has long arms for being 5' 9" and it seems to be a risk for him to be outside. He's a greeat fit for nickel but for a #2 starter CB.

Last years drafted CB, Alex Carter, is an extreme risk, imo, as an outside CB as he has rigid hips and heavy feet for deep routes. He doesn't have that fluidity to match up on any 7,8,9 routes. He needs to be deep and see plays in front him. He does very good in run support. He has SS written all over him, imo. Maybe he progresses this year, idk.

 

[lionstop1]

Cornerback has a very steep learning curve most of these "day 1 starters" face maybe 1 or 2 elite level college talents per year in the NFL they'll be facing those guys every week. Thats is the reason cornerback has the highest first round bust rate of any position. I can't think of many corners that stepped in day 1 and really did a good job in coverage. Look at last year Marcus Peters with the Chiefs he had 8 ints which looks great, but he also allowed 1000+ yards and 10 TDs. I'll take a guy like veteran Sean Smith(also KC) everyday over Peters he only had 2 ints, but only allowed 530 yards and 3 TDs. We can find a solid number 2 in FA at a decent price(Sterling Moore from Tampa he's had 2 solid seasons in a row with Tampa and Dallas and is expected to go cheap) or just develop one of the guys we already have like Austin did with Slay.

Good stuff. I just can't get behind not drafting a guy due to the learning curve though. If you draft that guy, I'm assuming the team will know how to use him within the defensive scheme. There is still 10 others on the field that are going to have his back.

The Peters example was a good one but Im sure KC is looking forward to year two because he probably won't allow as much as he did.

 

[lionstop1]

Is Sterling Moore a Cover 2 guy? Huge difference in skills.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

@lionstop1 do you mind sharing some of your thoughts regarding other players that interest you at #16 and possibly beyond that you think would be available.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

@lionstop1 so far, You've mentioned William Jackson-1st, Josh Doctson-2nd, Jeremy Cash-3rd and somehwere beyond that 3rd round comp pick is QB Kevin Hogan.

I like that Josh Doctson pick and if Jeremey Cash lasted that long he'd be a steal (also like that one). I've been flip flopping between Kevin Hogan and Dak Prescott but I think Prescott gets drafted before that 4th round and I feel there are other needs than a developmental QB. Kevin Hogan intrigues me due to the sytem he was in (pro-style) plus, he is extremely smart off field and saw an interview with David Shaw before that Oregon game stating how easily he pick up added plays into the playbook.

 

[lionstop1]

@lionstop1 do you mind sharing some of your thoughts regarding other players that interest you at #16 and possibly beyond that you think would be available.

Here's a full breakdown of who I like at 16 with some thoughts and reasons why:

I think the draft is a pretty good one, especially when you get towards the back end of the first round, into the second. There's a lot of value there. This is definitely a draft where if you need defense, you can find some good players early and late. But, I think since there is an abundance of defensive guys, if you take an offensive guy early, you're probably getting the best from the group. For the Lions, I don't' think they're pinned down to just doing certain things, I think they can afford to draft just about any position as long as they are smart about it. Here's all the guys I would consider at 16 and why:

E. Elliot - Elliot is consistently rated a top 10 player in this draft and many believe he's going to have a good NFL career. If the Lions want to "run the ball" as much as Caldwell has preached, I see no reason as to why they couldn't add a stellar RB to the fold like Elliot. The value meets the price here at 16. You have a guy that is a day 1 starter, who is an impact player and will also help the ground game tremendously. Him and Abdullah paired up make the best young backfield in the league.

*Note* I'd invest a 1st round pick in him over a veteran that's only going to be here for a year or so. I like the long-term and fresh legs advantage.

R. Stanley - Honestly, I don't like the thoughts of drafting a LT at 16 unless you think you've got one that is way ahead of any other OT available later. For the Lions, it seems risky given the rumor that Rieff will be moved over to the right side. Seems as if Rieff would make an exit after that. I think Stanley is good enough to warrant the pick at 16 though. I'd call it a safe one.

L. Treadwell - I'm not completely sold on the guy at this point, but I'm going with the trend that he's probably the best WR available. If so, the Lions definitely have to consider him at 16 because they don't want to miss out on a impact player on offense. He makes sense.

*Note* If Calvin returns, I still would be ok with the pick.

C. Coleman - I honestly think this kid will be something special in the NFL if he goes to the right place. Cooter loves the quick screen game to his WRs and they also need a guy who can stretch the field. He can do all of it. He's a mix between Steve Smith and A. Brown.

E. Ogbagh - I'm one that believes the Lions should add a few guys to the DT position via FA and later in the draft. If they take an D-lineman early, it needs to be a DE. Ogbagh is interesting because he's put up great numbers for two years in a row, has a non-stop motor and can play either side. I think pairing him with Ansah on the the edge will be huge. He's probably an 8-12 sack guy per year.

V. Hargreaves, A. Mackensie, W. Jackson III - I listed three CBs here, as I would take any of them at 16. Hargreaves will be gone but if not he'd be considered a gift. I really like what I've heard from Mackensie as far as his work ethic goes and the fact that he's always on opposing teams top WR. I think Jackson would definitely be a first round guy if he played for a different school besides Houston. I like what he brings to the table. Adding another guy opposite Slay is very important, imo.

The next group of guys I only like with a trade down:

R. Ragland - Although I don't like taking LBs early, Ragland probably makes sense. MLB is an important position on defense and if the Lions think he can be a top 10 MLB in the league, then Im fine with it. Its not a terrible idea to pair him with Levy.

A. Robinson, A. Billings, R. Nkemdiche - I honestly think the Lions could wait a couple rounds for a DT because all I see with these guys are a bunch of run stuffers. I'll take any of these three late in the first or early in the second though.

W. Fuller - I like him at the end of the first round. I can see the comparison to D. Jackson.

J. Smith - If the Lions feel like he will be back to 100 percent and that they can afford to red-shirt a guy, I'd look at him early on day two and possibly at the end of round one.

H. Henry - This, I know, is a huge surprise but he's a beast of a talent and very versatile. At 6'5, 250, he can block and run well. The Lions can roll with a dual TE system and add some other pieces at WR. Both TEs can play on the outside or in the slot also. I like the pick late in the first while picking up an extra 3rd or 2nd.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

@lionstop1

very well put together.

I like to read your perspective regarding how each player fits and could be used.

nice job on where you have them ranked

 

[lionstop1]

Thanks Blue

 

[gandydancer]

@lionstop1

With Ragland in mind, I'm looking at the draft that Levy is not coming back. One reason I like that pick at 16. He comes back and can produce the same, it's much to the comparison of if CJ comes back and you took a WR.

Later round DT I've been on is Anthony Zettel Penn St. He's in that 3rd comp pick to 4th round area.

Treadwell might be the part of trade back scenario if he gets to us. See teams wanting him.

 

[lionstop1]

Ogbah posted a 4.65 forty time at 6'5 280. Thats pretty damn good. Supposedly, Quinn has brought in some of the best trainers and we have Austin who gets the most out of his guys. I like the potential here.

 

[lionstop1]

Gandy,

I just have a hard time considering a LB that early but Im not completely against it as long as he's miles ahead of any LB available.

Ive also read up on Zettel and watched him play a few times. Seems like a great pick if we could land him in the 3rd or 4th.

I can also see where a team might want to come up for Treadwell so the Lions might have that option in their favor. One way to build depth is to gain extra picks and Im sure Quinn shy away from that.