Lions get the 16th pick

[Old Lion]

I'd MUCH rather take a shot on this guy in the 2nd round. Flat out play maker.

Austin could do so much with this kid with all the sub packages we use.

 

[Rollingthndr]

Austin could do so much with this kid with all the sub packages we use.

I know! He could play the old J. Ighedibo role as the "in-the-box" safety. A great partner in crime to Quin. Also, he looks to be a fantastic blitzer. I'd be a bit disappointed in the first if we took him but damn happy if we got him in the 2nd.

 

[lionstop1]

Only problem is that all the CBs available have some negatives about their game. I find most of them to be fixable. Hargreaves (my favorite) does get burned at times and is rather small but he might be a top ten pick.

 

[lionstop1]

Blue, I thought that was some pretty decent tape on Jackson actually. He shows nice instincts and speed to stay with and recover on WRs. On the first interception though, he should've never took his eyes off the WR but thats a mistake that can be fixed. Keep an eye on this guy, as I think he's a legit CB that the teams will be after before the 2nd round.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Blue, I thought that was some pretty decent tape on Jackson actually

That highlight film is a decent one. I had two actual game films from this past season where you can clearly see a hitch in his hips when in press coverage only and it's consistent. He'll round out once the WR forces him out to the boundary.

He has recovery speed but he needs to latch and anchor the WR's hip in press. He has great eyes when in off but will bite with head/shoulder fakes by WR all too often.

All I was trying to state is don't get caught up in all the INT's as those are mostly due to errant throws or wrong routes. Stats are great but technique is more important as it can allow those without elite speed to still be very good.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

He shows nice instincts and speed to stay with and recover on WRs.

yes, he does but he needs to read the WR's hips and not from the shoulders up until the WR comes out of his break.

On the first interception though, he should've never took his eyes off the WR but thats a mistake that can be fixed.

This is a perfect example regarding negative instincts where the WR hadn't come into his break for the post route until his own 45 yd line and the WR's head hadn't turned to look for the ball yet but Jackson turns his head in anticipation and that allowed the WR to extend. If the QB hadn't underthrown the ball then the WR wouldn't have slowed down starting at the opponents 45 yd line and Jackson wouldn't have had the chance to recover.

He has exceptional body control and ball skills though.

All these kids need more development and everyone knows that.

Jackson's 4.37 forty made people stop to think about taking a second look.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Keep an eye on this guy, as I think he's a legit CB that the teams will be after before the 2nd round.

I can agree here with your assessment that he's a legit CB prospect and warrants more consideration. However, there is more tape that shows many more mistakes than the little ones on that highlught film. The NFL is a speed game and many will go crazy over combine numbers then use that as an excuse to validate their choice.

You can clearly see Jackson has an affinity to come in and provide run support.

I wasn't downing your choice of him and he may very well climb up the rankings more.

I have seen Hargreaves repeatedly over the last three years and Ramsey for the last two years and Jackson isn't anywhere near the technician as though two are. He's not a top 25 CB other than the fact the CB is weak this year therefore he'll rise and so will Eli Apple off of pure measureables and not by studying 4-5 game films from quality competition.

 

[Stomp]

Lawson played pretty well last year and we have an untested 3rd rounder from last year in Alex Carter sign a cheap FA(Sterling Moore maybe) and move on the corner position is the best set position on the team imo. Diggs is a great Nickel and Slay is a solid #1

 

[lionstop1]

I get what you're saying Blue, and Im not saying you're wrong at all.

 

[lionstop1]

Lawson played pretty well last year and we have an untested 3rd rounder from last year in Alex Carter sign a cheap FA(Sterling Moore maybe) and move on the corner position is the best set position on the team imo. Diggs is a great Nickel and Slay is a solid #1

Lawson needs to serve as a backup. At this point, that's a good role for him and it is quality. Alex Carter is interesting because he is a bigger CB, he's smart and a decent cover man but I'm not sure how much the team likes him or if they even plan on starting him.

 

[Old Lion]

I see he Lions addressing CB and WR in FA. Possibly even SS. We will most likely need a DT, at least 1LB, and 1 more OT and 1 OC. We have resignd Walker and will probably resign Ngata or possibly Knighton.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

I see he Lions addressing CB and WR in FA. Possibly even SS

agree here with you.

The CB and S positions require NFL experience if you want a fix it now impact versus going through growing pains with draftees. CB position is just too tough and complex for the majority of these kids to comprehend yet alone not lose their confidence and have them regress (which does happen often. see Slay 1st year. some bounce back next year after working hard in off-season, Mathis and Rod Woodson mentoring).

I'm in the same regard with you on the WR in FA. We've seen a few rookie WR adapt to NFL routes off the cuff but most are eased in and provide little to decent impact.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

JMO, Lawson nor Diggs belong as boundary CB's. Neither are built to withstand facing bigger, quick twitch, savvy route running WR's for an entire season. If it came to 50/50 balls I think they both would struggle immensely. Both played decent for those 5-6 games that Mathis went out but I would find it difficult to trust them.

I like them both but they would be better served in slot.

 

[lionstop1]

I see he Lions addressing CB and WR in FA. Possibly even SS. We will most likely need a DT, at least 1LB, and 1 more OT and 1 OC. We have resignd Walker and will probably resign Ngata or possibly Knighton.

I think it just depends. The market for a good CB will be very expensive and they will find themselves competing with teams that have tons of cap space. The guys that have been mentioned here most likely will be headed elsewhere. Casey Hayward and the mid-tier guys will probably sign pretty fast.

In turn, that might give the Lions an opportunity to draft a quality CB in the draft because other teams grabbed them in FA. The draft might be the better option anyway because they come at a much cheaper price for a premium position.

You want to buy Jenkins for a 11 million per or draft at guy that will only get a third of that? Sign Hayward for 6-7 million per or draft a guy cheaper than that with possibly the same or better skill-set coming in?

DT and S seems to be the positions the Lions probably should attack in FA. There are some quality options at much cheaper prices, Imo. A guy like Damon Harrison should only cost no more than 7, 8 per year.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

@lionstop1

I'm kind of the cheap guy around here (the FDR if you will, teddy roosevelt) as much as @Old Lion and I see your point. I brought this money issue up before and I agree that Jenkins isn't worth that kind of money nor any of these FA CB's, imo. However, I was schooled by Stomp and Gandy that it's what fair market value is and I already know that. The flip side is you and I will see a rookie that shows a similar skillset coming into the NFL as though FA's had as prospects but you cannot replace NFL experience to those rookie prospects.

Damon Harrison is a damn gap plugging hopeful run stuffer. HE'S NOT WORTH 7-8M per yr for what he'd provide to the Lions. Ngata would come a lot cheaper than that and could still provide btter than just decent play and mentor these young DT's in Reid, Walker and Wright, imo. I'd pay the damn 11M to Jenkins before I'd pay Harrison 7M per yr and I wouldn't want to pay Jenkins that kind of money for a still inconsistent CB.

 

[Old Lion]

I think it just depends. The market for a good CB will be very expensive and they will find themselves competing with teams that have tons of cap space. The guys that have been mentioned here most likely will be headed elsewhere. Casey Hayward and the mid-tier guys will probably sign pretty fast.

In turn, that might give the Lions an opportunity to draft a quality CB in the draft because other teams grabbed them in FA. The draft might be the better option anyway because they come at a much cheaper price for a premium position.

You want to buy Jenkins for a 11 million per or draft at guy that will only get a third of that? Sign Hayward for 6-7 million per or draft a guy cheaper than that with possibly the same or better skill-set coming in?

DT and S seems to be the positions the Lions probably should attack in FA. There are some quality options at much cheaper prices, Imo. A guy like Damon Harrison should only cost no more than 7, 8 per year.

Its possible anything can happen. On the flip side the argument can be made that those teams with lots of cap space also have early picks in the draft and they can spend their money elsewhere drafting the CBs especially since drafting a O-Lineman early is pretty risky these days.

 

[lionstop1]

Blue,

I actually want both Ngata and Harrison signed. Lol

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Blue,

I actually want both Ngata and Harrison signed. Lol

I'm taking away your credit cards immediately. or tell your wife to do that.

Lionstop1, we have Walker, Reid, Wright in the fold already and there's talk that the Lions brass wants to bring back Ngata. So, that would be 4 DT's in the fold and I'd think having 2 players who are more 3-tech DT's in Walker and Wright that they would target a NT in the draft to groom for Ngata while having Reid who's better as a 2-tech than a 3-tech also in the fold as a rotational NT.

There's no reason to waste money, jmho, paying Ngata and Harrison that kind of money to man 1 position.

I'd be more concerned about DE depth if they bring back Ngata than adding another NT. I highly doubt Harrison gets 7-8M pya but if he does then his agent deserves another 2% for making that deal happen.

The very top 3-4 DT's had a max of 4.5M per yr avg. and that's only two of them in Wilfork and Knighton and Harrison isn't even close to the productivity of a shaded 1 or 2-tech 4-3 DT depending on scheme use of DT

3-4 Defensive Tackle Contracts and Salaries | Over The Cap

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

@lionstop1, I liked your idea of RT Mitchell Schwartz as it was mentioned between a couple regulars here previously but the FDR in me doesn't want to pay a FA_RT 6M per yr avg when we could be patient and wait to get that LT to be groomed and move Reiff over to RT at that time.

I'm not of the position that many are on this board in that Reiff is an absolute horrible LT because he isn't. People see the two strip sacks Reiff gave up (one vs. Dal DE Demarcus Lawrence in playoff game and then 2015 reg season game vs Den and Demarcus Ware) and the other QB hurries, sacks etc.. Imo, those two plays are overblown when in comparison to Reiff's overall body of work for the last 3 years. JBC has moved back to a man power based scheme and that is much more in line with what the OL skill set is and it showed in those last 6-7 games.

Michael Ola isn't a well known OL in the league so many automatically want to replace him. He did one helluva job manning that RT spot once Waddle was dq' and Lucas was benched. If BQ signs a FA_RT then fine Ola becomes a very good swing OT and that's huge for depth. If BQ drafts an OT then they still have Ola to start out at RT until they feel comfortable with the draftee's ability to start or said draftee beats Ola out in camp/pre-season.

 

[lionstop1]

I'm taking away your credit cards immediately. or tell your wife to do that.

Lionstop1, we have Walker, Reid, Wright in the fold already and there's talk that the Lions brass wants to bring back Ngata. So, that would be 4 DT's in the fold and I'd think having 2 players who are more 3-tech DT's in Walker and Wright that they would target a NT in the draft to groom for Ngata while having Reid who's better as a 2-tech than a 3-tech also in the fold as a rotational NT.

There's no reason to waste money, jmho, paying Ngata and Harrison that kind of money to man 1 position.

I'd be more concerned about DE depth if they bring back Ngata than adding another NT. I highly doubt Harrison gets 7-8M pya but if he does then his agent deserves another 2% for making that deal happen.

The very top 3-4 DT's had a max of 4.5M per yr avg. and that's only two of them in Wilfork and Knighton and Harrison isn't even close to the productivity of a shaded 1 or 2-tech 4-3 DT depending on scheme use of DT

3-4 Defensive Tackle Contracts and Salaries | Over The Cap

Very true. I saw somewhere that Harrison graded out the top run stuffer in the league over the last eight games or something like that, even with less playing time than other DTs in the league. It was a wild stat.