Game Thread: Let The Games Begin.....

[seahawksfan234]

Lol well A. We agreed upon so skip.

B. Does the Kraken signing with Root means they won’t run into conflict with each other because scheduling I thought was a league issue? I am not saying the tv deal isn’t good for the Mariners at all and the economics may be well over my head. It just doesn’t seem like the revenue that the Kraken will be some cash cow. The gate part of it, IMO isn’t really an issue. Just my personal opinion, that Mariners aren’t really caring about the average person that will attend a Kraken game, but they definitely are vying for those who will go to a Sonics game.

C. Yeah, housing is ridiculous. Covid somehow made the housing market out in “rural” Pierce County higher. I was just putting two and two together because of working remotely and there are a lot more dudes I am seeing around the neighborhoods now than pre Covid. My only point of the definition of suburbs my area or even a little further Bonney Lake do not have real access to mass transit which obviously conflicts with attending sporting events and with the Mariners losing equity in their fan base and not really gaining new ones, when it comes to even the affluent they are IMO going to choose to take their kids to the shiny new toys in hockey and the NBA.

With the housing I totally agree. We signed off on a lot a few years back for $280k, the county finally released that subdivision to start building and the company was selling it for 400k. But we didn’t put my money down on the lot so we’re SOL. We were at an apartment unit when this whole thing went down and one of our neighbors put 180k for a lot but put 5k down to actually own it. Nuts because there is no real amenities out there besides a view. Still have to drive however many miles just to go grocery shopping or get gas.

I get from a novice financial standpoint seeing that you shouldn’t put money into them. My issue is these are successful businessmen who made all of their money realizes you had to invest back into your business or product to make more money in the future. I understand Covid has caused issues with revenue in sports, but going cheap because you aren’t going to gross 200 million or whatever it is isn’t going to give goodwill to the public and like I said, I a couple of shiny new toys are coming up (well the Kraken officially) that are doing a great job PR wise. Jesus, I get that Russell Wilson is a topic right now but local sports are spending more time on Wilson/Seahawks, the Kraken, the potential of the Sonics and in then giving 1 percent to anything Mariners.

Baseball does have an issue and has been at a crossroads for awhile and won’t acknowledge it. 1. The game has become boring with its players. Every year we have an incident where the older players or baseball purists say baseball is X, Y and Z. Though they ignore baseball’s entire history. Rickey Henderson was more “disrespectful” with his lead off home runs than any modern player just as one example. 2. America’s issue with the broken family. This is going to sound sexist as hell and I don’t give two cents. It is the exception to rule when a mother can get a boy or hell even a girl to invest in a sport like baseball. Baseball is a sport you learn from a dad, a brother, an uncle, grandpa or a substitute father role person because you can socially bond with that person during puberty. I have no idea how baseball can become cool with that segment but it is going to always have an uphill battle when basketball and football players have current and former players going at it about issues like Favre going after Watson. Modern day baseball players act like cowards when getting called out by former players and media for their actions compared to the NFL and NBA.

B. I don't think the Kraken will result in some sort of cash cow for the Mariners. I was just pointing out that any competition they may pose the Mariners in terms of revenue could be offset by Root Sports having the right to broadcast those games.

C. The reason why COVID made the housing market ridiculous even in "rural" Pierce County makes a lot of sense to me personally for a lot of reasons. A lot of people who are employed in Seattle had to reside within a reasonable commuting distance. Now a lot of people who work those jobs in Seattle have the opportunity to work remotely. Partially fueled by historically low mortgage rates, people have been looking to purchase a home and homes within 15 miles of Seattle are vastly overpriced relative to median household income in the area.

As someone who works in downtown Seattle I can speak personally to this. I can afford to purchase a condo in Seattle or Bellevue, but once you add in the insane HOA dues most condos charge, it makes more sense to purchase a home. For example a $400,000 condo is going to charge around $500 in HOA dues a month. That's $180,0000 over the course of a 30 year mortgage, so I would be effectively paying $580,000 over 30 years minus interest, taxes, etc. If I can work remotely it makes more sense to purchase a home outside of the city for $580,000 as opposed to buying a condo for $400,000. Why pay the premium to be in the city when relocating makes more sense? I think a lot of people are in this type of situation and determining they're better off purchasing a home in a more rural location.

What you're saying regarding the finances of it makes perfect sense, but I guess another way of putting it is that ownership doesn't give a shit about team performance or PR, they care about maximizing profits with minimal risk. Ownership isn't stupid and they know that putting more money into the team will increase revenue, but if I had to speculate their plan is to see if our farm system pans out in cheap young players before they put more money into the team. I think they look back at some of the free agency splashes that have been made the last few decades and see that hasn't resulted in a winning team and as a result are not willing to spend unless they know it'll actually make a difference.

The second point you brought up in your last paragraph is actually a really interesting point I never thought about. I don't think it's sexist and I think you're right. Some of my best memories with my father were just playing catch talking about the Mariners with Dave Neihaus broadcasting the game on the radio while we chatted.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I am really confused on why Jerry chose Paxton over Walker (they are essentially the same contract) if Jerry is serious about a 6 man rotation then why not sign a Paxton or Walker to a Walker deal. Kikuchi hasn’t shown enough to earn his IIRC mutual option.

If I had to guess, it would be that Paxton has higher upside which means he can net us more in a trade if Dipoto decides to flip him for something.

Personally I can't see any other reason for adding Paxton. This team won't make the playoffs this year even if Paxton has a Cy Young caliber season.

 

[wazzu31]

Probably true. But on the bright side, if all the pitchers work out that will be a nice problem to have.

Well yes of course. But you of all people know that won’t happen. The have had twice the top 3 prospects in history in 98 and 2013 when they had Hultzen, Paxton and Walker who were all top 20. 98 or 99 I can’t remember the year but it was Anderson and Pinero but I cannot recall who was 3rd IIRC were all top 10. They had 5 who were top 100 I remember because there was a picture of them at Spring Training.

 

[wazzu31]

B. I don't think the Kraken will result in some sort of cash cow for the Mariners. I was just pointing out that any competition they may pose the Mariners in terms of revenue could be offset by Root Sports having the right to broadcast those games.

C. The reason why COVID made the housing market ridiculous even in "rural" Pierce County makes a lot of sense to me personally for a lot of reasons. A lot of people who are employed in Seattle had to reside within a reasonable commuting distance. Now a lot of people who work those jobs in Seattle have the opportunity to work remotely. Partially fueled by historically low mortgage rates, people have been looking to purchase a home and homes within 15 miles of Seattle are vastly overpriced relative to median household income in the area.

As someone who works in downtown Seattle I can speak personally to this. I can afford to purchase a condo in Seattle or Bellevue, but once you add in the insane HOA dues most condos charge, it makes more sense to purchase a home. For example a $400,000 condo is going to charge around $500 in HOA dues a month. That's $180,0000 over the course of a 30 year mortgage, so I would be effectively paying $580,000 over 30 years minus interest, taxes, etc. If I can work remotely it makes more sense to purchase a home outside of the city for $580,000 as opposed to buying a condo for $400,000. Why pay the premium to be in the city when relocating makes more sense? I think a lot of people are in this type of situation and determining they're better off purchasing a home in a more rural location.

What you're saying regarding the finances of it makes perfect sense, but I guess another way of putting it is that ownership doesn't give a shit about team performance or PR, they care about maximizing profits with minimal risk. Ownership isn't stupid and they know that putting more money into the team will increase revenue, but if I had to speculate their plan is to see if our farm system pans out in cheap young players before they put more money into the team. I think they look back at some of the free agency splashes that have been made the last few decades and see that hasn't resulted in a winning team and as a result are not willing to spend unless they know it'll actually make a difference.

The second point you brought up in your last paragraph is actually a really interesting point I never thought about. I don't think it's sexist and I think you're right. Some of my best memories with my father were just playing catch talking about the Mariners with Dave Neihaus broadcasting the game on the radio while we chatted.

I guess I don’t agree they will effect revenue with the M’s. Which is my opinion is debatable for sure but the Kraken will have fans in the city until what April and the NBA gets hot in May, then the Seahawks take over in August. I could be wrong but just in market share terms (again I am not an expert) but it seems if the Mariners box themselves in they have early May and July.

I don’t disagree at all with the housing. I am more speaking of that causes an issue with the gate when it comes to sports. In no American city does the schedule release lead to a sellout like the NFL does. People schedule days off for Thursday and Monday Night Football games. Just IMO but the further away fans move the harder it gets to fill the stadium on your Monday-Friday games. When the is a will there is a way, but the Mariners aren’t allowing for the will part IMO.

I obviously don’t live in Seattle but my father in law and sister in law work (well worked) for the SPD and at all of my friends work in either Seattle, Redmond, Bellevue or Everett and by choice they all have continued to live out here. Obviously prices were better for their house purchases at the time they bought. But even with how much the equity in their homes have grown it isn’t financially responsible/worth it to sell and move from at least what they have told me.

The thing with the business experts/financial planning or whatever of the Mariners is, just to me, they are being short sided. Teams don’t lose financial value, and am not asking them to put themselves at bankruptcy risk like the Padres are. But there is going to be a strike in 2021. Ownership needs to build as much equity with the public as possible. Not sure if you remember how much heat the Mariners got when they asked the city and county council to do what was written in their contract and pay the 150 or whatever million in maintenance of TMobile or Safeco, I can’t remember if it was 2019 or 18. Stuff like isn’t an issue when you have goodwill. I can’t imagine how it is going to be with a team that lost all goodwill when they have the work stoppage of billionaires vs millionaires. I guess you can’t put a price on equity in the community when more and more the people that are living within driving distance of the ballpark aren’t Mariners fans the less and less the probability is the ballpark will sell out with the fans that matter. No offense to the hipsters that sell out the beer garden but they don’t really matter. They need the fan that is forced to drop $200 without question. Of course, all of the financial issues become irrelevant if Stanton and Co purchase the Seahawks once Paul Allen’s estate becomes finalized and they go up for sale.

I could be wrong on the social part but the two strongest ethnic groups worldwide that like baseball are Asians and Latinos. Those two groups only have 1 thing across the board that is in common and that is fathers/father figures. If you just look at numbers of the NFL and NBA overtaking MLB in terms of viewership correlates with the divorce rate, or at least the way I read it. Just my opinion but there is a reason there is a reason there is the term soccer mom, not a baseball mom. And there is a reason coaches in football and basketball are seen as father figures but you never hear of a baseball coach being described as a father figure. Baseball needs a Tony Dungy.

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[seahawksfan234]

I guess I don’t agree they will effect revenue with the M’s. Which is my opinion is debatable for sure but the Kraken will have fans in the city until what April and the NBA gets hot in May, then the Seahawks take over in August. I could be wrong but just in market share terms (again I am not an expert) but it seems if the Mariners box themselves in they have early May and July.

I don’t disagree at all with the housing. I am more speaking of that causes an issue with the gate when it comes to sports. In no American city does the schedule release lead to a sellout like the NFL does. People schedule days off for Thursday and Monday Night Football games. Just IMO but the further away fans move the harder it gets to fill the stadium on your Monday-Friday games. When the is a will there is a way, but the Mariners aren’t allowing for the will part IMO.

I obviously don’t live in Seattle but my father in law and sister in law work (well worked) for the SPD and at all of my friends work in either Seattle, Redmond, Bellevue or Everett and by choice they all have continued to live out here. Obviously prices were better for their house purchases at the time they bought. But even with how much the equity in their homes have grown it isn’t financially responsible/worth it to sell and move from at least what they have told me.

The thing with the business experts/financial planning or whatever of the Mariners is, just to me, they are being short sided. Teams don’t lose financial value, and am not asking them to put themselves at bankruptcy risk like the Padres are. But there is going to be a strike in 2021. Ownership needs to build as much equity with the public as possible. Not sure if you remember how much heat the Mariners got when they asked the city and county council to do what was written in their contract and pay the 150 or whatever million in maintenance of TMobile or Safeco, I can’t remember if it was 2019 or 18. Stuff like isn’t an issue when you have goodwill. I can’t imagine how it is going to be with a team that lost all goodwill when they have the work stoppage of billionaires vs millionaires. I guess you can’t put a price on equity in the community when more and more the people that are living within driving distance of the ballpark aren’t Mariners fans the less and less the probability is the ballpark will sell out with the fans that matter. No offense to the hipsters that sell out the beer garden but they don’t really matter. They need the fan that is forced to drop $200 without question. Of course, all of the financial issues become irrelevant if Stanton and Co purchase the Seahawks once Paul Allen’s estate becomes finalized and they go up for sale.

I could be wrong on the social part but the two strongest ethnic groups worldwide that like baseball are Asians and Latinos. Those two groups only have 1 thing across the board that is in common and that is fathers/father figures. If you just look at numbers of the NFL and NBA overtaking MLB in terms of viewership correlates with the divorce rate, or at least the way I read it. Just my opinion but there is a reason there is a reason there is the term soccer mom, not a baseball mom. And there is a reason coaches in football and basketball are seen as father figures but you never hear of a baseball coach being described as a father figure. Baseball needs a Tony Dungy.

Fair enough. I've probably said this a dozen times but it would be interesting to read a research article on the impact of a new big 4 sports franchise on the existing revenue of the teams already in the city. I actually think the whole work from home economy and the exodus out of Seattle poses a bigger threat to the Mariners financially than competing franchises. You're much more inclined to go to a Mariners game after work when you're already downtown as opposed to having to commute to the city.

I can't disagree with you on this point. This is where the team needs to create a "will" to want to attend the games as you put it. I'm somewhat numb to this point because I attend games irrespective of how the team is playing on the field, but this does sort of go back to the point of ownership putting more money into their investment. Even though Felix's contract became a burden at the tail end of it, he brought people into the stadium even when he was struggling. With all due respect to Marco, attending a game that he's starting doesn't elicit as much excitement as when Felix started among the average fan. I've said this numerous times, but in the meantime the Mariners need to make attending a game less cost prohibitive. Jack up the prices when the team is winning and there is high demand, don't charge a ton of money on concession and ticket prices when there is no winning product on the field.

It makes sense for your friends and relatives to stay in those areas because their homes are appreciating at an insane rate. Most of the people who are relocating are those who don't currently own property and are priced out of the areas you mentioned. I could be mostly speaking from a personal perspective, but I don't see the value in spending (at minimum) $600k for a home in this area when a comparable home would go for half that in Florida/Texas/Arizona and I'd make the same amount of money there.

"They need the fan that is forced to drop $200" goes back to the need to create a will to attend games. From a financial standpoint, I would lower prices substantially while the team isn't competitive. Why? I'm biased, but one of my favorite things to do is attend sporting events. Hell I know braindead women who don't give a shit about sports who absolutely love going to Mariners games. If you get someone hooked on that while they can afford it, they will fork up the money once the prices go up. Think of it like getting someone hooked on a drug as bad as that sounds. Give it to them free/cheap, then raise the prices once they really want it.

I know I'm repeating myself on this point, but I think you could be right and I honestly never considered this perspective. It could just be a mere correlation but it makes sense to me.

 

[Duders]

Mathers is a real first class DICK HEAD!! No wonder the Mariners suck year after year and have a GM and Manager who suck. Sorry, but Mather's interview spoke volumes about what's wrong with things. What a f'n douche!!

 

[NWinAZ]

Mathers is a real first class DICK HEAD!! No wonder the Mariners suck year after year and have a GM and Manager who suck. Sorry, but Mather's interview spoke volumes about what's wrong with things. What a f'n douche!!

And he should have been fired years ago for his other problems managing an organization.

 

[wazzu31]

Fair enough. I've probably said this a dozen times but it would be interesting to read a research article on the impact of a new big 4 sports franchise on the existing revenue of the teams already in the city. I actually think the whole work from home economy and the exodus out of Seattle poses a bigger threat to the Mariners financially than competing franchises. You're much more inclined to go to a Mariners game after work when you're already downtown as opposed to having to commute to the city.

I can't disagree with you on this point. This is where the team needs to create a "will" to want to attend the games as you put it. I'm somewhat numb to this point because I attend games irrespective of how the team is playing on the field, but this does sort of go back to the point of ownership putting more money into their investment. Even though Felix's contract became a burden at the tail end of it, he brought people into the stadium even when he was struggling. With all due respect to Marco, attending a game that he's starting doesn't elicit as much excitement as when Felix started among the average fan. I've said this numerous times, but in the meantime the Mariners need to make attending a game less cost prohibitive. Jack up the prices when the team is winning and there is high demand, don't charge a ton of money on concession and ticket prices when there is no winning product on the field.

It makes sense for your friends and relatives to stay in those areas because their homes are appreciating at an insane rate. Most of the people who are relocating are those who don't currently own property and are priced out of the areas you mentioned. I could be mostly speaking from a personal perspective, but I don't see the value in spending (at minimum) $600k for a home in this area when a comparable home would go for half that in Florida/Texas/Arizona and I'd make the same amount of money there.

"They need the fan that is forced to drop $200" goes back to the need to create a will to attend games. From a financial standpoint, I would lower prices substantially while the team isn't competitive. Why? I'm biased, but one of my favorite things to do is attend sporting events. Hell I know braindead women who don't give a shit about sports who absolutely love going to Mariners games. If you get someone hooked on that while they can afford it, they will fork up the money once the prices go up. Think of it like getting someone hooked on a drug as bad as that sounds. Give it to them free/cheap, then raise the prices once they really want it.

I know I'm repeating myself on this point, but I think you could be right and I honestly never considered this perspective. It could just be a mere correlation but it makes sense to me.

Completely agree with it could affect the Mariners the most and why I think they have blown a chance to build equity. The other point of doing an analysis is something that would be great. I am terrible at research (mostly because I just share my opinion and when someone points out I am wrong I take it) but I have done a little investigation and can’t find a time where that many pro teams have entered. The closest thing I have found is LA in the 50’s but football and is a lot different now and surprisingly (the way it reads) no one in LA really cared about the Lakers.

I was listening to some dude talking the other day about how new ballparks (specifically Pittsburgh) where baseball is doing it wrong is they are building stadiums for the stadium to be the product instead of what is on the field, which is good for bottom line because they won’t lose money but they won’t ever make football money even though they have however many times the chance for revenue. I can’t speak for any other “newer” stadiums but TMobile is a great place to go to just to hang out but they can’t use the ballpark anymore as the excuse anymore to fill the rest of the stadium. You now see like announced 12,000 people in the stands when even during either 2010’s those games were either near capacity or at least half full on game nights.

The only thing I can the issue with moving is the pro’s and con’s. We almost moved to Arizona two years then NC this summer. Cost of living is lower but both my wife and I would have to take a pay cut and technically we would come out ahead damn I couldn’t get use to the weather, how slow everyone moves and the fact that in our state you have every recreational activity you really want.

Lol the drug thing on sports is true. Kind of the issue with baseball in the inner city and urban areas right now that Manfred is putting Griffey in charge of. Not sure it will help because baseball still costs money and most importantly is the travel and place to play which more urban areas do not have any more. Basketball costs travel but that is mostly back and forth to practices and away games are in well within driving distance. Baseball you drive for practices but then the driving distance for games is farther way. I don’t have any idea on how to fix it all though.

I was offered an assistant JV coaching job at Lindbergh HS after I quit my failed college baseball run and damn, it was like a third world country with those 14-18 year old boys trying out. I told the new HC flat out his varsity wouldn’t have placed in my little league. No idea how to change that culture because of a lot inner city school’s can be good if they choose to. I remember we intentionally embarrassed Lakes HS and mercy ruled them both times our junior year. They still sucked as a team but they came out and waxed us because there team was full of D1 and D2 football and basketball players just staying in shape for summer ball. But the Tatis contract along with superior athleticism can get you to at least a 500k a year job in baseball.

 

[wazzu31]

Just saw this on Twitter. Seems like the dude won’t be holding his job to much longer. I doubt some of the stuff he says were are mean as they are being portrayed, but dude. He knew what social culture was for 4 years and keeps coming up with strikes against him.

 

[Podunkparte]

Yeah, I don't think the things he said were as horrible as people are making them out, but they still scream entitled rich douchebag. Couple it with the fact that he was speaking to the Bellevue Rotary (I've been involved in the Everett Rotary, so I can only imagine how far up their own asses the Bellevue members' heads are,) and you can almost taste the snark and condescension.

It really does feel like finances are the most important part of the team to him, so I hope he's gone soon. Problem is, who steps in? Another yes man, I'm sure.

 

[seattlefan75]

Yeah, I don't think the things he said were as horrible as people are making them out, but they still scream entitled rich douchebag. Couple it with the fact that he was speaking to the Bellevue Rotary (I've been involved in the Everett Rotary, so I can only imagine how far up their own asses the Bellevue members' heads are,) and you can almost taste the snark and condescension.

It really does feel like finances are the most important part of the team to him, so I hope he's gone soon. Problem is, who steps in? Another yes man, I'm sure.

yeah I watched the entire 45 min interview and it really isn't as bad as people make it out to be. I do honestly believe that his way of thinking and doing business is exactly how the other organization handle things. Service time manipulation is something that is done by everyone for the simple fact that it does not benefit the organization to rush a prospect to the majors so that they eat away at the service time and bolt for free agency to seek a 400 million dollar contract. Its better to keep him in the minors a little while longer and deploy him to the majors once your organization has identified which years they want to make a run at the postseason.

Now with that being said I have no idea what the problem is with paying an interpreter 75k for your foreign player. We are trying to win games if Ichiro or whatever star foreign player needs an interpreter your ass needs to go hire one. 75k is a freaking penny compared to the money being thrown around in pro sports. I do believe management does trash Hispanic players and they prefer their college American ball players which again is something a lot of executives do/believe in other organizations.

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[wazzu31]

I highly doubt Divish is going to be on Stanton’s Christmas card list for making him look like a buffoon today

 

[NWinAZ]

I highly doubt Divish is going to be on Stanton’s Christmas card list for making him look like a buffoon today

If you follow Divish on twitter, he is pretty open about his distain for him and the Mariners management.

 

[wazzu31]

If you follow Divish on twitter, he is pretty open about his distain for him and the Mariners management.

I don’t know follow him because of the whole KJR stuff, but he was going after him pretty good and wouldn’t give up and Stanton when he deflected. Something you rarely see from a reporter in Seattle.

 

[NWinAZ]

I don’t know follow him because of the whole KJR stuff, but he was going after him pretty good and wouldn’t give up and Stanton when he deflected. Something you rarely see from a reporter in Seattle.

I agree totally. Most of local writers are pretty soft on them. I use to follow Geoff Baker because he would actually write less favorable articles but not necessarily articles making himself the story like you see with some of these ESPN guys back east.

 

[SeattleCoug]

I don’t know follow him because of the whole KJR stuff, but he was going after him pretty good and wouldn’t give up and Stanton when he deflected. Something you rarely see from a reporter in Seattle.

yeah main thing I noticed. Divish didnt hold back yesterday which is refreshing for anyone in the Seattle media to do that

 

[wazzu31]

I agree totally. Most of local writers are pretty soft on them. I use to follow Geoff Baker because he would actually write less favorable articles but not necessarily articles making himself the story like you see with some of these ESPN guys back east.

I really liked Baker back pre Smoak trade. Then it seemed like he personally changed and went on a one man mission to destroy the franchise. Divish seemed more reasonable but after the KJR/Seattle Times/710 ESPN ordeal it seemed like he went more company line and I quit really following him once I got getting that paper. I really like Corey Brock right now, but Divish went back up my list. I like, at least how I heard it, he was fair with his questioning until Stanton started deflecting his question about firing him, then circled back when Stanton kept deflecting others questions.