Game Thread: Let The Games Begin.....

[wazzu31]

yeah main thing I noticed. Divish didnt hold back yesterday which is refreshing for anyone in the Seattle media to do that

Yeah, I really liked his professionalism during the whole press conference. You rarely see that nowadays. Would’ve made Murrow proud.

 

[Duders]

It was nice to see Divish stand on his own 2 feet for a change (however brief it may be) and not fall in line with the M's standard BS. Stanton is not what he claimed to be. A hometown, long lover of baseball and going to put the M's back on top. Hell, it's been years and it's pretty much the SOS imo.

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[NWinAZ]

Interesting

 

[Duders]

A Rod #1? What has this World come to?

 

[NWinAZ]

I didn't write this but saw it in the comments section of a Mariners site and it is what I have believed for years:

The M’s prospect propaganda machine is an interesting phenomenon in that there seems to be this 100%-certain belief that the M’s are going to call up these four or five “big” prospects in the next couple of years and “poof!” the Mariners turn into contenders.

All we have to do is look back in time:

In 1989, the Seattle Mariners had three future Hall of Fame players on their roster. Three. It took six years before they made the playoffs. Hell, they only had two winning seasons in those seasons before 1995.

Which is to say that Kelenic and Julio could be as good as Griffey and Edgar and it doesn’t guarantee anything. The team still needs to be competent in adding additional MLB talent.

Expecting a few prospects to come up and suddenly make the Mariners a perennial contender is Fool’s Gold. And we have plenty of history to tell us that several of these prospects aren’t going to pan out at all.

 

[Duders]

"The team still needs to be competent in adding additional MLB talent." They also need to have a manager that knows what the hell he is doing and not always being "Mr. Nice Guy"

 

[NWinAZ]

"The team still needs to be competent in adding additional MLB talent." They also need to have a manager that knows what the hell he is doing and not always being "Mr. Nice Guy"

True but he hasn't cost us a playoff chance yet...you know since we have not yet had playoff talent in the last 2 decades.

But if we ever do get playoff talent, then an upgrade at manager is desperately needed as you mentioned.

 

[seahawksfan234]

RANT AHEAD:

Just got done catching up on all the shit going on with the dumpster fire Kevin Mathers caused.

Tbh I don't really care about him being a douchebag and making the Mariners look awful, I'm worried about the fallout this is going to cause.

Jarred Kelenic is justifiably pissed the fuck off with the organization aside from the obvious reasons. I understand why manipulation of service time is beneficial to teams, but shit after it was all but confirmed that he was held back because of that they need to do just about everything they can to keep him happy. Kelenic wants to be in the majors and was essentially told he would see the field if he signed the contract the Mariners offered him and once he didn't, he was held back. This tells me that the franchise believes he's MLB ready but they wanted to use MLB playing time as leverage for a contract negotiation.

I haven't seen this mentioned but after hearing what went on with Kelenic, I'm confident that Evan White was in a similar situation and only saw the field because the team secured a team friendly deal with him.

I don't really care what the Mariners have to do to remedy this, but they need to. If Kelenic is the star we all hope he'll be, he will eventually need to negotiate a contract with us and if he has a grudge against the organization that's a huge blow to us. Strategically speaking, service time manipulation makes complete sense. But if service manipulation leads to a potential star player not wanting to remain with the franchise once contract negotiations take place, that's significantly worse for the organization than sacrificing some service time. Despite what Dipoto says about "development" it sounds to me that Kelenic would've seen the field in 2020 if he had signed the deal the Mariners offered. Dipoto and Servais are too fucking arrogant to do this, but they need to get on their hands and knees and do whatever it takes to fix this.

Also, the incompetence aside, the fact that Mather's first comments about international players is their English ability speaks to a massive problem within the organization. There's no way he makes those comments if they're not being ignored amongst colleagues. If I'm Julio Rodriguez I'm wondering how much the organization really cares about me if the President of the company I work for feels emboldened enough to make the type of remarks he did.

Rant over. Maybe I'm overthinking this, but shit, an inability to build a winning organization is one thing. Actively shooting yourself in the foot is another. I don't want to make this about politics/being politically correct, but if you're going to harbor those feelings about international players, please fucking keep them to yourself and not undermine the process by spewing that shit in public.

I suppose the one upside if that the organization ridded itself of someone who lacks the common sense to think about the words that come out of his mouth.

No need for anyone to respond to this. I'm just fucking irritated that Mathers dumbass comments are going to hurt a franchise that already has the reputation as a losing club.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Sorry for the essay long rant. Going to put my laptop away before I start ranting about Dipoto's arrogant response to this.

 

[SeattleCoug]

hmmmm the Kelenic situation gets a bit more interesting. Cant use the get him "more ABs" excuse.

 

[seattlefan75]

RANT AHEAD:

Just got done catching up on all the shit going on with the dumpster fire Kevin Mathers caused.

Tbh I don't really care about him being a douchebag and making the Mariners look awful, I'm worried about the fallout this is going to cause.

Jarred Kelenic is justifiably pissed the fuck off with the organization aside from the obvious reasons. I understand why manipulation of service time is beneficial to teams, but shit after it was all but confirmed that he was held back because of that they need to do just about everything they can to keep him happy. Kelenic wants to be in the majors and was essentially told he would see the field if he signed the contract the Mariners offered him and once he didn't, he was held back. This tells me that the franchise believes he's MLB ready but they wanted to use MLB playing time as leverage for a contract negotiation.

I haven't seen this mentioned but after hearing what went on with Kelenic, I'm confident that Evan White was in a similar situation and only saw the field because the team secured a team friendly deal with him.

I don't really care what the Mariners have to do to remedy this, but they need to. If Kelenic is the star we all hope he'll be, he will eventually need to negotiate a contract with us and if he has a grudge against the organization that's a huge blow to us. Strategically speaking, service time manipulation makes complete sense. But if service manipulation leads to a potential star player not wanting to remain with the franchise once contract negotiations take place, that's significantly worse for the organization than sacrificing some service time. Despite what Dipoto says about "development" it sounds to me that Kelenic would've seen the field in 2020 if he had signed the deal the Mariners offered. Dipoto and Servais are too fucking arrogant to do this, but they need to get on their hands and knees and do whatever it takes to fix this.

Also, the incompetence aside, the fact that Mather's first comments about international players is their English ability speaks to a massive problem within the organization. There's no way he makes those comments if they're not being ignored amongst colleagues. If I'm Julio Rodriguez I'm wondering how much the organization really cares about me if the President of the company I work for feels emboldened enough to make the type of remarks he did.

Rant over. Maybe I'm overthinking this, but shit, an inability to build a winning organization is one thing. Actively shooting yourself in the foot is another. I don't want to make this about politics/being politically correct, but if you're going to harbor those feelings about international players, please fucking keep them to yourself and not undermine the process by spewing that shit in public.

I suppose the one upside if that the organization ridded itself of someone who lacks the common sense to think about the words that come out of his mouth.

No need for anyone to respond to this. I'm just fucking irritated that Mathers dumbass comments are going to hurt a franchise that already has the reputation as a losing club.

I am pissed about the whole situation my only defense with Mather is that he said something in confidence and it was leaked out so I am assuming someone in that country club didn't like him enough to leak the video. Listen I am all about the Mariners first or any franchise before the player. The players focus is to do whats best for them and managements focus is to do whats best for the franchise. Players like Julio Rodriguez and Jarrod Kelenic are looking at vets like Tatis and Harper get these insane contracts and that is what they ultimately want whether that's with Seattle or any ball club. If both turn out to be great talents then realistically we can only keep one of them on a long term contract. So I don't mind keeping Kelenic longer in the minors if it benefits the organization cry me a river that you will get a 320 million dollar contract rather than a 400 million because you are older and less attractive to a longer contract.

Now I am sure other GMs are pissed because I bet they also manipulate service time and players cannot win their grievance because there is no proof. Now that this is public it raises more question on when other teams do it to their players.

 

[wazzu31]

RANT AHEAD:

Just got done catching up on all the shit going on with the dumpster fire Kevin Mathers caused.

Tbh I don't really care about him being a douchebag and making the Mariners look awful, I'm worried about the fallout this is going to cause.

Jarred Kelenic is justifiably pissed the fuck off with the organization aside from the obvious reasons. I understand why manipulation of service time is beneficial to teams, but shit after it was all but confirmed that he was held back because of that they need to do just about everything they can to keep him happy. Kelenic wants to be in the majors and was essentially told he would see the field if he signed the contract the Mariners offered him and once he didn't, he was held back. This tells me that the franchise believes he's MLB ready but they wanted to use MLB playing time as leverage for a contract negotiation.

I haven't seen this mentioned but after hearing what went on with Kelenic, I'm confident that Evan White was in a similar situation and only saw the field because the team secured a team friendly deal with him.

I don't really care what the Mariners have to do to remedy this, but they need to. If Kelenic is the star we all hope he'll be, he will eventually need to negotiate a contract with us and if he has a grudge against the organization that's a huge blow to us. Strategically speaking, service time manipulation makes complete sense. But if service manipulation leads to a potential star player not wanting to remain with the franchise once contract negotiations take place, that's significantly worse for the organization than sacrificing some service time. Despite what Dipoto says about "development" it sounds to me that Kelenic would've seen the field in 2020 if he had signed the deal the Mariners offered. Dipoto and Servais are too fucking arrogant to do this, but they need to get on their hands and knees and do whatever it takes to fix this.

Also, the incompetence aside, the fact that Mather's first comments about international players is their English ability speaks to a massive problem within the organization. There's no way he makes those comments if they're not being ignored amongst colleagues. If I'm Julio Rodriguez I'm wondering how much the organization really cares about me if the President of the company I work for feels emboldened enough to make the type of remarks he did.

Rant over. Maybe I'm overthinking this, but shit, an inability to build a winning organization is one thing. Actively shooting yourself in the foot is another. I don't want to make this about politics/being politically correct, but if you're going to harbor those feelings about international players, please fucking keep them to yourself and not undermine the process by spewing that shit in public.

I suppose the one upside if that the organization ridded itself of someone who lacks the common sense to think about the words that come out of his mouth.

No need for anyone to respond to this. I'm just fucking irritated that Mathers dumbass comments are going to hurt a franchise that already has the reputation as a losing club.

Thing is, no way is Mather the only one who thinks that. Mather was speaking in confidence but was so brash about it like it was just everyday talk. You can’t be the President and minority owner of a sports franchise if the majority owner/other minority owners don’t feel the same way. Especially in today’s culture.

 

[wazzu31]

I am pissed about the whole situation my only defense with Mather is that he said something in confidence and it was leaked out so I am assuming someone in that country club didn't like him enough to leak the video. Listen I am all about the Mariners first or any franchise before the player. The players focus is to do whats best for them and managements focus is to do whats best for the franchise. Players like Julio Rodriguez and Jarrod Kelenic are looking at vets like Tatis and Harper get these insane contracts and that is what they ultimately want whether that's with Seattle or any ball club. If both turn out to be great talents then realistically we can only keep one of them on a long term contract. So I don't mind keeping Kelenic longer in the minors if it benefits the organization cry me a river that you will get a 320 million dollar contract rather than a 400 million because you are older and less attractive to a longer contract.

Now I am sure other GMs are pissed because I bet they also manipulate service time and players cannot win their grievance because there is no proof. Now that this is public it raises more question on when other teams do it to their players.

Mather’s comments definitely cost the owners a boat load of money. Service time is going to be eliminated in the CBA. Generally speaking athletes don’t get public sympathy during negotiations because a lot of their public grievances don’t have proof but now when the PA strikes or threatens they have the moral high ground.

 

[NWinAZ]

Jeff Passan of ESPN reports that the Astros have agreed to a two-year deal with free agent right-hander Jake Odorizzi.​

Odorizzi was the biggest fish left in the free agent pond and appears to have found an excellent landing spot with the Astros, who have been dealing with numerous injuries and COVID-19 related absences this spring. No word on the financial terms yet, but Passan adds that the deal also includes a player option for the 2023 season. The 30-year-old righty was limited to 13 2/3 frames due to injuries during the pandemic-shortened 2020 campaign, but compiled a robust 3.51 ERA, 1.21 WHIP and 178/53 K/BB ratio across 159 innings (30 starts) back in 2019.

 

[Duders]

Jeff Passan of ESPN reports that the Astros have agreed to a two-year deal with free agent right-hander Jake Odorizzi.​

Odorizzi was the biggest fish left in the free agent pond and appears to have found an excellent landing spot with the Astros, who have been dealing with numerous injuries and COVID-19 related absences this spring. No word on the financial terms yet, but Passan adds that the deal also includes a player option for the 2023 season. The 30-year-old righty was limited to 13 2/3 frames due to injuries during the pandemic-shortened 2020 campaign, but compiled a robust 3.51 ERA, 1.21 WHIP and 178/53 K/BB ratio across 159 innings (30 starts) back in 2019.

Is this another righty the M's should have been going for? I don't know anything about Odorizzi other than the stats you shared.

 

[NWinAZ]

Is this another righty the M's should have been going for? I don't know anything about Odorizzi other than the stats you shared.

Good veteran pitcher. Was a top guy back in the day with Rays. We didn't ned him we already have an all-star pitching group...

 

[seahawksfan234]

I am pissed about the whole situation my only defense with Mather is that he said something in confidence and it was leaked out so I am assuming someone in that country club didn't like him enough to leak the video. Listen I am all about the Mariners first or any franchise before the player. The players focus is to do whats best for them and managements focus is to do whats best for the franchise. Players like Julio Rodriguez and Jarrod Kelenic are looking at vets like Tatis and Harper get these insane contracts and that is what they ultimately want whether that's with Seattle or any ball club. If both turn out to be great talents then realistically we can only keep one of them on a long term contract. So I don't mind keeping Kelenic longer in the minors if it benefits the organization cry me a river that you will get a 320 million dollar contract rather than a 400 million because you are older and less attractive to a longer contract.

Now I am sure other GMs are pissed because I bet they also manipulate service time and players cannot win their grievance because there is no proof. Now that this is public it raises more question on when other teams do it to their players.

Without getting political, these days - especially in a Zoom/WebEx meeting - you have to be very cognizant of the words you use when speaking to people. Even the slightest insensitive comment puts you at risk for losing your job. I say this as someone who is very outspoken and I know I have to monitor my language. Hell, I'm great at my job but I was on PTO the previous 5 days and a co-worker texted me asking where I was and joked she thought my mouth had gotten me fired.

This is fucked up of me to say, but I completely believe that manipulating service time is what's best for the organization. Mather was an idiot because you don't blatantly say that a player is being held back because of service time. You don't even say that in person amongst a trusted colleague. It should be "He's not ready yet" with a wink and a nod where both parties are aware it's bullshit.

I agree with your comments but I worry that it will have lasting implications when the day comes where we do have to negotiate a contract with a young star player.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Thing is, no way is Mather the only one who thinks that. Mather was speaking in confidence but was so brash about it like it was just everyday talk. You can’t be the President and minority owner of a sports franchise if the majority owner/other minority owners don’t feel the same way. Especially in today’s culture.

That's another concern of mine.

If Mather was speaking "in confidence" with these comments, it shows that there is a culture that enables that type of behavior.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Not sure if this has been posted, and it is a pipe dream, but man I wish the Mariners could pull this off:

The Mariners should go after Theo Epstein to clean up the mess they made

The Mariners have quite a mess to clean up in the wake of Kevin Mather's comments. There's one man with the resume and know how to turn chumps into champions, and he's done it twice before.

www.seattletimes.com