Let the chips fall where the may.

[nefansince75]

Don't forget that Kraft told BB that he wanted more of a consensus than a one man decision.

Is this actually a fact or something that was reported, then became an assumed fact?

 

[sonnyblack65]

I've enjoyed our "arguments". My comments support your characterization of him being a good coach. Trust me, I'm not sitting back trying to poke holes in anything you post. I realize you are posting recollections and we all have different perspectives with recollections. I'm just posting what I recall about the same events.

And for the record never said he was a bad coach. Good coach, great DC and lousy GM, but personally he cringes me out and I don't trust him as far as Steve's drug dealer is nearby.

 

[nefansince75]

And for the record never said he was a bad coach. Good coach, great DC and lousy GM, but personally he cringes me out and I don't trust him as far as Steve's drug dealer is nearby.

That's exactly what I said, My comments support your characterization of him being a good coach.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

I mostly agree with this.
Unfortunately, improving the O-line is not easy. Miami has been throwing money and picks at it for years and they are all the way up to 27th in run blocking!

I'm not saying it's easy. But NE has had a pretty good track record of finding Olinemen that work well in their system. Sure Scar and Ernie likely had a lot to do with that? Time will tell.

If it was WR help they needed I wouldn't be confident with this current regime.

Miami has also gone through a handful of coaches which doesn't help them.

I think if BB puts his focus on fixing the oline it will improve. Spend $ on it in FA, draft one or two and look for the UDFA diamond in the rough 300# kid out of no name state U.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Supposedly to save money and not give Patricia the actual title, part of their contracts were still being absorbed by Detroit and NY for Judge

I think a big part of it was Bill didn't want to train, oversee, mentor or a dozen other words to describe what he does with his staff. With Matty and Judge BB new he getting two guys who have already bought into his philosophy and mantra.

I think he may also wanted to personally spend more time with the defensive side of the ball and not having to spend so much time with some new offensive coaches. This could be why little Stevey is having a good year?

I just hope he's realized his fault and his ego allows him to go find a decent coordinator and oline coach?

We'll see.

 

[BigKen]

I think a big part of it was Bill didn't want to train, oversee, mentor or a dozen other words to describe what he does with his staff. With Matty and Judge BB new he getting two guys who have already bought into his philosophy and mantra.

Good point.

At the NFL level, people in positions like these shouldn't need to be trained to perform the job. They're hired because they know it and because the person that hires them is expecting that they can do it. There really isn't a training curve, but more an adjustment curve to the way that the HC wants to run the team. Then again, most GM/HC hire people with a boatload of experience and don't put BFFs in them to fail.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

WOW........................Brutal three pages.

I'm in Sonny's corner for different reasons than him.

As far as the draft is concerned. Don't forget that Kraft told BB that he wanted more of a consensus than a one man decision. Making that a priority in 2021 has made the past two drafts very successful. Does anyone think that Matty and Joey will take sides against BB when it comes to making draft picks? The 2023 draft worries me because Bill has two sons and two friends on his side and the guys that made the difference are gone. Ziegler being the more influential.

After such a shitshow in 2022, we all pretty much agree in here that the OL is the biggest need. We all know that if BB's favorite defensive player is sitting in place when Bill has the pick, he'll by-pass the best OT on the board and grab that DL. It's his mantra, it's his strength. Bill is not an offensive coach. He's unquestionably one the best ever at finding incredible talent for the defense. He's done great at finding offensive nuggets late but will rarely chance a pick early. Harry is a perfect reason why he avoids offense in the in first round and still feels that sting.

Then again, I'd hate to see some outsider get the GM position and come in a totally FU the draft.

OL.
OL coaching.
And OC.

Not sure what order I would put them in...

Bill does draft more defense but does not really avoid the offense in the first round.
A quick rundown;
2000, Klemm OT. 2nd round but his first pick.
2002, Graham TE pick 21
2005, Mankins G pick 32
2006, Maroney RB pick 21
2011, Solder T pick 17
2018, Wynn T pick 23
2019, Harry WR pick 32
2021, Jones QB pick 15
2022, Strange OL pick 29

That's 9 out of 23 drafts he has drafted offense first. Not quite half, but close enough that he is not avoiding it.
Furthermore, that's 4 out of the last 5 he has gone offense.

 

[BigKen]

A quick rundown;
2000, Klemm OT. 2nd round but his first pick. Average
2002, Graham TE pick 21 Above Average
2005, Mankins G pick 32 Outstanding
2006, Maroney RB pick 21 Horrible
2011, Solder T pick 17 Average
2018, Wynn T pick 23 Horrible
2019, Harry WR pick 32 OMG Horrible
2021, Jones QB pick 15 Yet to be seen. Average so far. Maybe a bit below.
2022, Strange OL pick 29 Above average

That's 9 out of 23 drafts he has drafted offense first. Not quite half, but close enough that he is not avoiding it.
Furthermore, that's 4 out of the last 5 he has gone offense.

IMO, if you were scoring on a 1-5 with 1 being Horrible and 5 being outstanding this selection of offensive 1st round picks would average 3.0 or Average. IMO 3 of the 9 were horrible. You might be able to bump Solder up a notch because he wasn't that bad watching TB's left side. But he problems with speed rushers.

But you're right, Bill did go to the offense nine of twenty and I thought it was much less. But his selections show that it is not his strength.

 

[Southieinnc]

A quick rundown;
2000, Klemm OT. 2nd round but his first pick. Average
2002, Graham TE pick 21 Above Average
2005, Mankins G pick 32 Outstanding
2006, Maroney RB pick 21 Horrible
2011, Solder T pick 17 Average
2018, Wynn T pick 23 Horrible
2019, Harry WR pick 32 OMG Horrible
2021, Jones QB pick 15 Yet to be seen. Average so far. Maybe a bit below.
2022, Strange OL pick 29 Above average

That's 9 out of 23 drafts he has drafted offense first. Not quite half, but close enough that he is not avoiding it.
Furthermore, that's 4 out of the last 5 he has gone offense.

IMO, if you were scoring on a 1-5 with 1 being Horrible and 5 being outstanding this selection of offensive 1st round picks would average 3.0 or Average. IMO 3 of the 9 were horrible. You might be able to bump Solder up a notch because he wasn't that bad watching TB's left side. But he problems with speed rushers.

But you're right, Bill did go to the offense nine of twenty and I thought it was much less. But his selections show that it is not his strength.

Maroney was horrible by memory but actually was more journeyman
"Maroney, who became the Patriots' starting running back following the release of Dillon in the offseason, missed three games in October with a groin injury,[5] and rushed for 835 yards in the Patriots' undefeated 2007 regular season. In the playoffs, Maroney became a bigger factor for the Patriots, compiling 244 rushing yards and two touchdowns in two games before playing in Super Bowl XLII. In that game, Maroney had 14 carries for 36 yards with a one-yard touchdown in a loss against the New York Giants."

Wynn was actually a good OT, earlier in his career. Injuries have hampered his NFL career. What might of been.....
This year he again was not healthy but played anyway - with bad results

 

[Yankee Traveler]

A quick rundown;
2000, Klemm OT. 2nd round but his first pick. Average
2002, Graham TE pick 21 Above Average
2005, Mankins G pick 32 Outstanding
2006, Maroney RB pick 21 Horrible
2011, Solder T pick 17 Average
2018, Wynn T pick 23 Horrible
2019, Harry WR pick 32 OMG Horrible
2021, Jones QB pick 15 Yet to be seen. Average so far. Maybe a bit below.
2022, Strange OL pick 29 Above average

That's 9 out of 23 drafts he has drafted offense first. Not quite half, but close enough that he is not avoiding it.
Furthermore, that's 4 out of the last 5 he has gone offense.

IMO, if you were scoring on a 1-5 with 1 being Horrible and 5 being outstanding this selection of offensive 1st round picks would average 3.0 or Average. IMO 3 of the 9 were horrible. You might be able to bump Solder up a notch because he wasn't that bad watching TB's left side. But he problems with speed rushers.

But you're right, Bill did go to the offense nine of twenty and I thought it was much less. But his selections show that it is not his strength.

First round defensive picks...

03, Warren DE pick 13 Average
04, Wilfork NT pick 21 An Abomination
07, Merriweather DB 24 Below average to horrible
08, Mayo LB 10 Outstanding
10, McCourty DB 27 Outstanding
12, Jones DE 21 Above Average
14, Easley DT 29 Horrible
15, Brown DT 32 Average
16, Cyrus Jones CB 32 Horrible

Some years no first round pick

He's either hot or cold with his first round defensive players as well though. He has hit on more defensive players but... For every Harry there is a Cyrus Jones, for every Maroney there is a Meriweather, for every Wynn there is an Easley.

 

[cheerupcharlie]

Like I said.... the draft is a crap shoot.

 

[molsaniceman]

First round defensive picks...

03, Warren DE pick 13 Average
04, Wilfork NT pick 21 An Abomination
07, Merriweather DB 24 Below average to horrible
08, Mayo LB 10 Outstanding
10, McCourty DB 27 Outstanding
12, Jones DE 21 Above Average
14, Easley DT 29 Horrible
15, Brown DT 32 Average
16, Cyrus Jones CB 32 Horrible

Some years no first round pick

He's either hot or cold with his first round defensive players as well though. He has hit on more defensive players but... For every Harry there is a Cyrus Jones, for every Maroney there is a Meriweather, for every Wynn there is an Easley.

u forgot
2001 richard seymour-HOF pick #6 it was his ist ist rounder

 

[nefansince75]

First round defensive picks...

03, Warren DE pick 13 Average
04, Wilfork NT pick 21 An Abomination
07, Merriweather DB 24 Below average to horrible
08, Mayo LB 10 Outstanding
10, McCourty DB 27 Outstanding
12, Jones DE 21 Above Average
14, Easley DT 29 Horrible
15, Brown DT 32 Average
16, Cyrus Jones CB 32 Horrible

Some years no first round pick

He's either hot or cold with his first round defensive players as well though. He has hit on more defensive players but... For every Harry there is a Cyrus Jones, for every Maroney there is a Meriweather, for every Wynn there is an Easley.

And at least one with two picks. Only one actually vanished in thin air.

 

[YankeeRebel]

Every team has their fare share of draft busts and diamonds in the rough.

Bottom line you cannot measure heart

 

[Yankee Traveler]

u forgot
2001 richard seymour-HOF pick #6 it was his ist ist rounder

HOT DAMN!!!

Not sure how the fuck I brainfarted that one.

 

[nefansince75]

u forgot
2001 richard seymour-HOF pick #6 it was his ist ist rounder

and it was very criticized at the time because he was taken instead of a WR who went on to be a bust.

 

[Southieinnc]

and it was very criticized at the time because he was taken instead of a WR who went on to be a bust.

In case you have not noticed:
Everything the Patriots do is criticised!
Every time we have a bad event - they come out of the woodwork!
Every time we have a good event - we cheated!

Look at the Mac Jones low block. It was a bad play by Mac - should have been a penalty. Now he is filthy.....

Patriots 1st Down: Did Mac Jones throw a dirty block at Eli Apple?

Steve Burton and Mike Reiss discuss Mac Jones' low block attempt at Eli Apple in Week 16, and the quarterback's growing reputation as a "dirty player."

sports.yahoo.com

 

[Yankee Traveler]

and it was very criticized at the time because he was taken instead of a WR who went on to be a bust.

Who?

 

[molsaniceman]

Who?

not sure but heres the top players from 01 with career avg value

the 1st wr taken david terrel is know where to be found

 

[Southieinnc]

First round defensive picks...

03, Warren DE pick 13 Average
04, Wilfork NT pick 21 An Abomination
07, Merriweather DB 24 Below average to horrible
08, Mayo LB 10 Outstanding
10, McCourty DB 27 Outstanding
12, Jones DE 21 Above Average
14, Easley DT 29 Horrible
15, Brown DT 32 Average
16, Cyrus Jones CB 32 Horrible

Some years no first round pick

He's either hot or cold with his first round defensive players as well though. He has hit on more defensive players but... For every Harry there is a Cyrus Jones, for every Maroney there is a Meriweather, for every Wynn there is an Easley.

Merriweather played 4 seasons for the Patriots being named to probowl in 2009 and 2010