Lawrence Jackson

[K.J.Ester]

If any of those three players are there and they choose not to take him, then you would have the right to see it as a failure. If those three are gone and they never have a chance to get them? I cant call that a failure. At least I wouldnt blame the Lions for it.

People keep saying you dont draft a guard at #5. Why? Because that is the way it always has been? The rules of drafting are different now with a rookies contracts cut down now. In the past, teams didnt draft them because they were not worth the money you would have to give them for being drafted so early. Now that is not the case. Now you draft the best player for the team, no matter the position, because you will not be over spending for him.

IFor what they have to pay the first rounders these days, I think I would rather the lions draft Warmack over a LT. He is the best Guard in the draft, and fits a bigger need IMO because the Lions dont need a LT with Reiff taking the spot this year.

Yet none of this matters to me because I want them to take Milliner over any of them.

 

[Thruthefog]

I wouldn't worry if LoJack started on the right side. But the Lions need to get something for the left. Biggest hole on the team. But as for needing to replace Avril's production, we could probably replace that with a really quick midget.

 

[Microwahevo]

Yes, its a falilure if the Lions don't get one of these three guys

No....it's not. Like KJ said, if those 3 get chosen before we even get to pick, there's nothing we can do about it, besides listen to you bitch. This isn't the draft where the Lions get to choose whom they want before everyone else. We actually have to wait, and you kow, see what everyone else does before making our selection. Funny how that works.

 

[Microwahevo]

Don't bring anything other then a Die Hard Lion fan into it....I wouldn't have jumped and wasted my time here and on the Fantasy league if I wasn't...I'm asking nicely to stop bringing my fandom or crediblity into question.

Ummmm, yeah, ooook. I will always do that because of your demeanor. It's written on the wall.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

We don't have to draft him at 5 if we trade back. If!! But to say guards aren't drafted in the first round shows your lack of knowledge.

i don't think he said guards are not drafted in the 1st round, I believe what he said was a Guard shouldn't be drafted in the top 5. Before the new rookie salary change -- I would agree wholeheartedly with that comment, as there was no way a team was going to pay a rookie Guard a monster contract. Now though -- if you have a stud like Warmack or even Cooper, paying them 19 or 20 million over 4 years isn't that bad. To put it in perspective -- Eric Berry was drafted 5th overall in 2010 -- he got a 6 year deal worth up to 60 million with 34 million guaranteed -- No chance you give that to a guard. The highest paid Guard in the NFL is Carl Nicks and his contract only has 31 million guaranteed.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I wouldn't worry if LoJack started on the right side. But the Lions need to get something for the left. Biggest hole on the team. But as for needing to replace Avril's production, we could probably replace that with a really quick midget.

Really? You do realize Avril had just under 30 sacks the last 3 years, to go along with 10 passes defensed, an interception returned for a TD, 9 forced fumbles and 4 fumbles recovered. He was the one guy on the Lions defense that actually forced turnovers. Blows my mind to hear someone think he is going to be easily replaced.

 

[Microwahevo]

i don't think he said guards are not drafted in the 1st round

He said this:

Guards can be found in rounds 2,3,4

I suppose I took this as saying they aren't drafted in the 1st because they can be found in the 2,3, ans 4th rounds.

I believe what he said was a Guard shouldn't be drafted in the top 5

And I replied to that as well. I would've agreed with that too, to a certain extent. If that player can make the entire O-line that much better, it shouldn't matter that we've drafted the best player in the draft, who happens to be a guard, at #5.

 

[Microwahevo]

Now though -- if you have a stud like Warmack or even Cooper, paying them 19 or 20 million over 4 years isn't that bad.

Exactly. But I don't think he understands that. Hell, he even has the pay scale incorrect. A player drafted gets paid at the position at which he is drafted, not the position he plays. After his rookie contract, then that player gets paid based on his skills and the market value or what a team is willing to give him. So if he can't understand that concept, I know he'll never understand why not getting Milliner, Joeckel, or Fisher isn't a fail.

 

[themuzzer]

Exactly. But I don't think he understands that. Hell, he even has the pay scale incorrect. A player drafted gets paid at the position at which he is drafted, not the position he plays. After his rookie contract, then that player gets paid based on his skills and the market value or what a team is willing to give him. So if he can't understand that concept, I know he'll never understand why not getting Milliner, Joeckel, or Fisher isn't a fail.

That's precisely why you won't see a kicker get taken in the top 5 either....There posistion doesn't warrant it....Neither does a guard.

 

[Kreton]

That's precisely why you won't see a kicker get taken in the top 5 either....There posistion doesn't warrant it....Neither does a guard.

Guards, unlike kickers, are highly paid players. Furthermore, the Lions can definitely use one. If the Lions draft a G then Reiff is almost certainly staying at T. If we draft a T then Reiff is almost certainly moving to G. Either way you are going to throw a hissy fit.

 

[Kreton]

Am I the only one who feels as though Jackson has regressed since his 1st year with the Lions? Both Jackson and Willie Young seemed to take a step in the wrong direction last year, IMO.

.

but to be fair, you are negative on virtually everyone. of course you feel as if they regressed.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Joeckel/Fisher or Millner is the right pick and I stand by it...


Yes, its a falilure if the Lions don't get one of these three guys.....Seahawks have nothing to do with it....

It's a failure in your eyes, but that doesn't really mean much to the rest of us. You've worked hard this offseason to become the radical outsider of the board, you think your opinions and thoughts are up on some pedestal and that only you truly know how to build a team.

I don't know what makes guys like you think they know so damn much, but it gets old when you keep making these claims (like that one above) like they're real, actual facts, instead of just the off-kilter opinions of someone who thinks he knows way more about the subject than he really does...

 

[themuzzer]

Guards, unlike kickers, are highly paid players. Furthermore, the Lions can definitely use one. If the Lions draft a G then Reiff is almost certainly staying at T. If we draft a T then Reiff is almost certainly moving to G. Either way you are going to throw a hissy fit.

I haven't looked, but I'm willing to bet Janikowski is making more then alot of guards in the NFL.

 

[tpaulus_2]

I'm asking nicely to stop bringing my fandom or crediblity into question.

Your fandom? Sure, I can handle not calling that into question.

Your credibility? Sorry, but as long as you're making these either/or, "I know what I'm talking about and you don't, so shut up" type comments, then nobody is going to think you're credible.

Credibility, just like respect, is earned.

As long as you keep throwing out all this crap about anything you don't like being a "failure" you won't earn either. Stop assuming that we're all too stupid to realize what an arrogant ass you are on here, treat other posters with respect, and realize that you're not always right, and maybe you'll see some changes in the way we interact with you.

 

[themuzzer]

It's a failure in your eyes, but that doesn't really mean much to the rest of us. You've worked hard this offseason to become the radical outsider of the board, you think your opinions and thoughts are up on some pedestal and that only you truly know how to build a team.

I don't know what makes guys like you think they know so damn much, but it gets old when you keep making these claims (like that one above) like they're real, actual facts, instead of just the off-kilter opinions of someone who thinks he knows way more about the subject than he really does...

Opinions are fun arn't they. Doesn't matter if I'm wrong or right. It's a opinon....Joeckel/Fisher or Millner or trade back.......Why is that a bad thing? It's my opinion this is what is best for the Lions.....Would you complain with one of these three TP?

 

[tpaulus_2]

I haven't looked, but I'm willing to bet Janikowski is making more then alot of guards in the NFL.

More than back-ups, maybe, but not more than the higher-end starters, not even close.

I love how you think we can just grab any old college guard in the 7th round and plug him right in.

You'd be a joke of a GM because we'd have 6 starting QBs, 18 CBs, 8 DEs and giant holes between the tackles where opposing defenses would bust right through and destroy us.

The way you just brush off guards as unimportant scrubs screams casual fan. Yet here you are every day on a board filled with hard-core fans. That tells me you're only interested in giving others your opinion, and not learning anything in the process.

Your mouth is always open, yet your mind is tightly closed. No wonder you're at the center of 99% of the arguments around here...

 

[themuzzer]

It's a failure in your eyes, but that doesn't really mean much to the rest of us. You've worked hard this offseason to become the radical outsider of the board, you think your opinions and thoughts are up on some pedestal and that only you truly know how to build a team.

I don't know what makes guys like you think they know so damn much, but it gets old when you keep making these claims (like that one above) like they're real, actual facts, instead of just the off-kilter opinions of someone who thinks he knows way more about the subject than he really does...

More than back-ups, maybe, but not more than the higher-end starters, not even close.

I love how you think we can just grab any old college guard in the 7th round and plug him right in.

You'd be a joke of a GM because we'd have 6 starting QBs, 18 CBs, 8 DEs and giant holes between the tackles where opposing defenses would bust right through and destroy us.

The way you just brush off guards as unimportant scrubs screams casual fan. Yet here you are every day on a board filled with hard-core fans. That tells me you're only interested in giving others your opinion, and not learning anything in the process.

Your mouth is always open, yet your mind is tightly closed. No wonder you're at the center of 99% of the arguments around here...

I never brushed off guards, I've only stated that you don't take one with the 5th overall pick and guards can be found 2,3,4 round....There a dime a dozen.....CBs QBs and DEs are not.....I can't help you value the guard posistion so much.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Opinions are fun arn't they. Doesn't matter if I'm wrong or right. It's a opinon....Joeckel/Fisher or Millner or trade back.......Why is that a bad thing? It's my opinion this is what is best for the Lions.....Would you complain with one of these three TP?

See- that's where we split. You say it's your opinion, but you never say "in my opinion, imo, I think or I feel like" or anything like that. You don't give opinions, you give "facts" and tell others their opinions are wrong.

This is a social gathering- certain social rules apply. A little humility goes a long way in a place like this, and you have none.

MikeD and I had this same debate a while ago about offering opinions. I told him basically the same thing, that his posts came off to others as definitive and in-your-face, not as his opinions. Since then he's taken the time to add "imo" here and there, or say "I think..." before some of his thoughts, and it's made a huge difference. And it wasn't like he was doing it on purpose, I just don't think it occurred to him to add that stuff, but now that he has, his posts come off as far more respectful towards the group. He still has the same opinions, we still don't see eye to eye that much, but now he and I (and others) debate football, not argue about what a dick each other is being. (sorry for using you as an example, MikeD... hope that's cool?)

I think the biggest thing for you, Muzzer, is that your posts always come off as a direct challenge to anyone who you don't agree with. I know you're used to dealing with little kids all day, and it's your way or the highway on your bus, but this isn't your bus. We aren't little kids.

 

[tpaulus_2]

I never brushed off guards, I've only stated that you don't take one with the 5th overall pick and guards can be found 2,3,4 round....There a dime a dozen.....CBs QBs and DEs are not.....I can't help you value the guard posistion so much.

How exactly are guards a dime a dozen? That's totally devaluing the position.

You keep saying that you don't draft a guard at #5, but why not? Give a better reason than "they can be found in later rounds." Any position can be found in any round. And we already know the payscale isn't a factor with the new CBA, so I want to know why you wouldn't draft an All Pro caliber guard at #5 overall?

 

[jayfan]

Board President?


What's up with that?