Last Game Talk

[Baseballnut77]

I see a little jab has awoken the wee little mind of the greatest fan of the new NHL (the no hit league lol) On 1 hand its "gimme skill andspeed over goons" on the other its gimme brokeback and bollig over pirri and morin. Who cares anyways we will just continue to deal away youngsters for dead bodies if and when superstars go down no big deal and when the end is near no biggie we can just watch football and basketball for 5 or 6 years while a new GM and coach try to rebuild the team. tis all good

 

[gmalis1]

So I get it now. Let's sit Kane, Toews, Hossa, Sharp, Keith, Seabrook, Hjamarlsson and let's bring up the kids from Rockford and let them play because you're scared the core will get hurt or burnt out.

Perfect logic from where you're sitting. Sure, makes perfect idiotic sense.

Let's face it. It makes perfect sense to screw up your season in order to play some kids for the future, where you probably won't be winning anything anyways. But at least the kids will have NHL experience and you can get them cheap and they'll be ready to be a bunch of losers in the future.

Yep, you're analysis and prognostication are perfectly sane. I get it now.

 

[anotheridiot]

Maybe you should listen to a great fan and expert, best analyst in the business, his name is Eddie Olczyk. He makes a point of the lack of the role being played by the role player Bollig. Is he smart enough to know how Bollig should be playing? I guess since he is not here posting that you are smarter than him too.

No, you dont sit the stars, but up 4-1 in the third period you stop fucking double shifting kane. You give old guys a night off and let the kids learn this nhl game that they cannot grasp at rockford so they are ready when you do need them.

 

[anotheridiot]

Still waiting for a response on who you would sit/trade to provide a spot for one of the kids.

Nobody is reading trading anybody, just stop bringing betterans in to keep filling their spot.

 

[JBM73]

I totally understand where you're coming from, a.i., and have often questioned Q myself. His decisions sometimes seem VERY illogical. However, with 2 Cups under his belt and sitting at the top of the league at the moment, I remember why he's the coach and I'm just a fan...

Chicago tops in NHL after grueling stretch - Chicago Blackhawks Blog - ESPN Chicago

 

[anotheridiot]

I totally understand where you're coming from, a.i., and have often questioned Q myself. His decisions sometimes seem VERY illogical. However, with 2 Cups under his belt and sitting at the top of the league at the moment, I remember why he's the coach and I'm just a fan...

Chicago tops in NHL after grueling stretch - Chicago Blackhawks Blog - ESPN Chicago

I get it, JBM, but those blog writers are gonna want them to get Shea Weber if Duncan Keith goes down. I get the fact that each team is trying to copy what the hawks are doing, and the hawks are hoping teams start lightening up on the physical game in that new no hit nhl someone so eloquently brought up. But the bottom line with the cup wins were a healthy squad, a veteran center to take over the second line to shake things up at the deadline, and that kid you scratched your head about waking up and dominating in the playoffs. I dont think anyone can argue one of the key guys in 2010 with big buff was a little center named Ben Smith. He couldnt break the roster the next two seasons after playing dominant hockey in the playoffs. The team was gutted, down 10 guys and smith could not make the opening day roster. He is an all in coach, some of us just know that most teams have someone ready in their affiliate. Our guys just come up and get pissed on before being traded.

 

[gmalis1]

Ben Smith has had nothing but injury problems. The reason he hasn't been on the Hawks is because he had a concussion two years ago in the Hawks preseason that sidelined him almost the entire year.

Then the following year he dislocated his shoulder that I think needed surgery.

It's not that the Hawks didn't want him on the big squad. He wasn't healthy enough to be there.

And who would YOU like to see replace Bollig, since you think he's not doing his job?

 

[anotheridiot]

Ben Smith has had nothing but injury problems. The reason he hasn't been on the Hawks is because he had a concussion two years ago in the Hawks preseason that sidelined him almost the entire year.

Then the following year he dislocated his shoulder that I think needed surgery.

It's not that the Hawks didn't want him on the big squad. He wasn't healthy enough to be there.

And who would YOU like to see replace Bollig, since you think he's not doing his job?

Kyle Beach oh, right, he's gone.

Who needs him replaced? He just needs to do his job and stop trying to be a "skill" player.

 

[gmalis1]

Kyle Beach oh, right, he's gone.

Who needs him replaced? He just needs to do his job and stop trying to be a "skill" player.

Then stop bitching and moaning about AHL'ers being called up to the Hawks to give players a rest, to fill out the bottom of the roster instead of "expensive" over the hill veterans and to get more NHL experience before they get traded.

You're not gonna get an argument from me about Bollig. We all know what his role is/should be. He's the Ben Eager/Daniel Carcillo replacement. Be an agitator, stick up for your skilled players and any offense is a bonus.

But I'm assuming Q is happy with the role he is playing right now...solid defensively, contribute a bit on the PK and every once in a blue moon give a little offense.

Either way, your way or my way, he is not to be considered a skill player. Have you seen him shoot the puck? We all have and it's usually off target, if he even gets his stick on the damn puck.

But remember, he's player number 12 out of 12 forwards. There's always a lug in the bunch. Thankfully, he's the only lug.

 

[Baseballnut77]

I totally understand where you're coming from, a.i., and have often questioned Q myself. His decisions sometimes seem VERY illogical. However, with 2 Cups under his belt and sitting at the top of the league at the moment, I remember why he's the coach and I'm just a fan...

Chicago tops in NHL after grueling stretch - Chicago Blackhawks Blog - ESPN Chicago

its not just on Q it is just as much on stan. All i want from this team is to continue to build from within. As spanky would have it we would just load the bottom 2 lines with veterans and never give the kids a real shot because he doesnt like some stick work or the more general "he looks lost" type comments.As we have already seen we have traded away 3 young capable kids who seem to be having no problem playing at a good level on another team. olsen and stanton are playing very good hockey right now (though stanton just got injured) and i am quite sure they could have taken rossi and brookbanks spots for less money and with much higher upside.Now instead of the "well the cap will go up we will just barely be under it so its ok comment" we could be staying well under it and make a splash if the inevitable injury bug starts to hit. Take a good look at the stats recently and in some games we are getting out hit by large margins because teams know they can without much fear and sooner or later it is going to take a toll. And i would be feel much better about it if a morin or someone else had been taking regular nhl shifts being plugged in rather than a sheldon brookbank

 

[anotheridiot]

its not just on Q it is just as much on stan. All i want from this team is to continue to build from within. As spanky would have it we would just load the bottom 2 lines with veterans and never give the kids a real shot because he doesnt like some stick work or the more general "he looks lost" type comments.As we have already seen we have traded away 3 young capable kids who seem to be having no problem playing at a good level on another team. olsen and stanton are playing very good hockey right now (though stanton just got injured) and i am quite sure they could have taken rossi and brookbanks spots for less money and with much higher upside.Now instead of the "well the cap will go up we will just barely be under it so its ok comment" we could be staying well under it and make a splash if the inevitable injury bug starts to hit. Take a good look at the stats recently and in some games we are getting out hit by large margins because teams know they can without much fear and sooner or later it is going to take a toll. And i would be feel much better about it if a morin or someone else had been taking regular nhl shifts being plugged in rather than a sheldon brookbank

Thats the bottom line, not just considering these guys will never get hurt. Seems the hawk prospects either have it or they dont. Saad had it. Raanta has it, it just is starting to seem like they either make it out of camp or are destined to the back and forth to rockford. We can just hope Teuvo and Hartman have it quick and Clendening sticks out of camp and or is not replaced before he gets the shot. When Saad, Shaw and Morin were on a line they were the best games Morin played. He jumped on shifts or didnt make it off and was on the ice with Hossa and Toews and sometimes Kane and they scored. Maybe that was his problem, he should have left the rush to change for Sharp and didnt, but when you are a left wing and the change is across the ice, you follow the puck.

 

[gmalis1]

With the success the Hawks have had last season and so far this season, I can't understand the rationale to criticize Stan Bowman and Q on their personnel choices.

Damn, they have THE best record in the NHL. There are basically NO spots for AHL'ers to fit in right now. They traded Olsen and Hayes for Versteeg, who is still only 27 years old (not an aging veteran), can play as the second or third line wing (which the Hawks desperately needed) and Florida picked up half his salary. Would you rather have Versteeg or Morin playing? I pick Versteeg. You may pick Morin.

Stanton was an unrestricted free agent at the end of last season. Yes, that happens in the AHL too. So he took the jump and an NHL team gave him a chance and promoted him. Stuff like that happens.

Same thing for Rob Klinkhammer. Free agent...boom, he signed with the Coyotes and he's been relatively successful.

The Hawks are loaded to the brim with talented players in just about every position. When you all recognize that there is no place for the AHL'ers to play on the Hawks, you might understand why they are NOT there.

And ulitmately, some of those AHL'ers will get traded or become free agents. And some of them will have success with other teams...which already tells you how deep the Hawks are that they CAN'T make the Hawks. It's not like the Hawks are trading away or letting go of the next Kane, Toews or Crosby. These are middle to bottom roster players for the most part that are expendable pieces. Why are they expendable? Because the Hawks have OTHER players filling those roles.

So it's Stan's job to keep stocking the minor league systems with new fresh talent...aka Raanta, Teurovainen, Hartman etc. When Kane and Toews start to be in their mid 30's, there will be slots opening up, barring any very ugly injury.

When your team is 20 deep or more (in the Hawks case that number might be 24 or 25 counting Kostka, Roszival, Crawford and heaven forbid Khabby), WHERE are you going to play some of these other players?

And yes, every game someone is on the active roster DOES count against the cap. So it's nice to play "So and so should be playing", but there are definite cap considerations to take into account as well.

 

[Baseballnut77]

Well AI i agree with ya. but i add that not to forget about mcneil as well.Clearly you get it with what is going on here. GMailis cant see anything but the here and now. As i have said (but the point clearly doesnt get thru 1 thick skull, i am happy with the results on the ice but will not be happy with a couple year run followed by a trip to the gutter. As is clear by the comment above mine there is a clear here and now view that wont be changed until the worst happens and then it will probably be followed by "geez what happened i thought i had it all figured out" lol. So it's nice to play "well we are winning now so everything will be fine" but as a lifelong chicago sports fan i know and have seen how quickly a team can go from zero to hero when mismanaged.

 

[gmalis1]

Well AI i agree with ya. but i add that not to forget about mcneil as well.Clearly you get it with what is going on here. GMailis cant see anything but the here and now. As i have said (but the point clearly doesnt get thru 1 thick skull, i am happy with the results on the ice but will not be happy with a couple year run followed by a trip to the gutter. As is clear by the comment above mine there is a clear here and now view that wont be changed until the worst happens and then it will probably be followed by "geez what happened i thought i had it all figured out" lol. So it's nice to play "well we are winning now so everything will be fine" but as a lifelong chicago sports fan i know and have seen how quickly a team can go from zero to hero when mismanaged.

You must be an eternal Cubs fan. Talk about mismanagement. 105+years without a championship. No matter how badly mismanaged, you would think even with dumb luck they would have won something. But after all, the Cubs have a ton of prospects and your eyes they probably will all be successful stars with the Cubs in MLB and if they get lucky, they might win a championship with them. That's if ALL of them become stars. Mediocrity just won't do for them to win.

What I allude to with the Hawks is that you have an unbelievably young core group of players. Hossa, Handzus, Sharp, Keith, Oduya, Brookbank and Rozsival are the only players over 30.

When Kane and Toews and Shaw and Saad and Bickell and Smith and Versteeg and Seabrook and Leddy and Hjamarlsson and Crawford and Raanta are in their early to mid 30's, I'll start worrying about the future.

Do you even have any clue how young the Blackhawks really are? I mean Kane and Toews and Smith are 25. Saad is 21. Shaw is 22. Kruger is 23. Bollig is 26 and Versteeg and Bickell are 27.

Leddy is 22, Hammer is 26. Seabrook and Kostka are 28.

Crawford is 28 and Raanta is 24.

You're talking like the Hawks need to bring in "fresh blood" because they are teetering on the edge of decrepitness. The Hawks HAVE to be one of the youngest teams in the NHL. And that's part of what makes them so scary. They're terrific and they're all so young. Why do you think Stan is locking up the younger players like Crawford, Bickell and Shaw to contract extensions? He wants them around for 4-5 years more.

Every time you criticize and try to demean me, you just sound like a dumbass. The average age on the Hawks is 27.7. The average age in the NHL is 28.2. Florida (yes, Dale Tallon's rebuilding Panthers) have the OLDEST team in the NHL at 29.7 along with the Devils. Columbus has the youngest team at 26.9, which for you mathematically challenged is 0.8 years younger than the Hawks. Now, considering that Khabby is 40, Handzus is 36 and Hossa is soon to be 35, that skews the Hawks numbers to the higher side a bit with just those three.

I just don't see what you really want? You want the Hawks to play younger players...yet they have a ton of younger players on the team. You don't want the Hawks to sign "aging veterans", yet aside from Khabby and Handzus, there are no aging veterans on the team except for Hossa who is still very productive and I don't see anyone in Rockford taking his place on the team.

You're scared of injuries occurrng to the Hawks core/star players, but no one can ever predict that nor can you play scared. It doesn't work that way. You play your BEST players. That's professional sports. You're willing to sacrifice championship runs in this, the next and the year after (and possibly more) to look WAY down the road when who knows if you even have the opportunity to play for a championship ever again. It's a stupid way of looking at things.

This reminds me of 2010. The Hawks went for broke, went into salary cap hell...just for the opportunity to try and win a championship. Thankfully for Hawks fans, it worked and they won the Cup. You don't do stupid things and hope that young guys fill roles that already successful players are doing.

I just don't understand your line of thinking. Just ask the Cubs how that rebuilding process is going since the early 1900's. I can guarantee you, the Hawks won't be going through that process any time soon.

 

[gmalis1]

As to me seeing only the here and now, the Hawks have added Ben Smith, Brandon Saad, Nick Leddy and Andrew Shaw to the roster in the past 2-3 years. That's four players in about three years. The Hawks will add younger players to replenish the roster as they see fit.

As for right now Handzus is providing leadership and solidifying the second line center role. Do I think he is the ideal player there in that role? Do I think he should be an everyday player? No on both counts. But Q gave Pirri the opportunity to run in that role, and he couldn't do it to the Hawks liking. So until someone else can fill Handzus' skates, he gets the nod. You have any ideas who you like in that role?

Hossa can't be replaced on this team, even if he does get hurt. He's a solid two way player, great defensively, a beast with the puck, plays PP and PK. And he's good for at least 25-35 goals in a season. So tell me, who from Rockford would replace him?

Khabby is a mess, was a bad signing and probably won't be off the LTIR EVER. One way to hide a mistake at least. Either Raanta or LaBarbera will be an improvement of him.

Everyone else is still very young and there is no need to replace them just for the sake of replacing them. You don't mess with success and you don't mess with team chemistry.

 

[anotheridiot]

Well AI i agree with ya. but i add that not to forget about mcneil as well.Clearly you get it with what is going on here. GMailis cant see anything but the here and now. As i have said (but the point clearly doesnt get thru 1 thick skull, i am happy with the results on the ice but will not be happy with a couple year run followed by a trip to the gutter. As is clear by the comment above mine there is a clear here and now view that wont be changed until the worst happens and then it will probably be followed by "geez what happened i thought i had it all figured out" lol. So it's nice to play "well we are winning now so everything will be fine" but as a lifelong chicago sports fan i know and have seen how quickly a team can go from zero to hero when mismanaged.

Yeah, McNeil is gonna run the point of someones powerplay, hopefully ours.

Its not the fact that this team is loaded and there is no room for the AHL players, but when they constantly go out of the system to replace the players we lose, its pretty evident that is their choice. You can credit Leddy as this new systems guy, but he was a flier they took when they knew they were gonna let Barker walk for nothing and no way they expected what we got, but he is constantly on the hotseat. There are only a few that see he gets a different partner every few games. And what did he, saad, and shaw did were hit the ice running. Ben Smith is one mistake away from going back to rockford and I have no doubt that the hawks were are going to be looking for deals the deadline to keep this roster with no room for AHL players.

Lets not forget this team might have 10 or 11 players risking injury at the olympics as well. All we want is prepared players to take a spot and prove the system guys can fill the roster.

 

[JBM73]

team chemistry.

Yep, that's a big piece of the equation. We can see it in terms of on-ice chemistry, but we don't get to see it in the locker room. The Hawks have been very good at avoiding players who can be a distraction, and have been able to maintain a very close-knit team. I do think sometimes guys don't get what we perceive to be a "fair shake" because they don't gel with the other guys personality-wise.

 

[gmalis1]

Yeah, McNeil is gonna run the point of someones powerplay, hopefully ours.

Its not the fact that this team is loaded and there is no room for the AHL players, but when they constantly go out of the system to replace the players we lose, its pretty evident that is their choice. You can credit Leddy as this new systems guy, but he was a flier they took when they knew they were gonna let Barker walk for nothing and no way they expected what we got, but he is constantly on the hotseat. There are only a few that see he gets a different partner every few games. And what did he, saad, and shaw did were hit the ice running. Ben Smith is one mistake away from going back to rockford and I have no doubt that the hawks were are going to be looking for deals the deadline to keep this roster with no room for AHL players.

Lets not forget this team might have 10 or 11 players risking injury at the olympics as well. All we want is prepared players to take a spot and prove the system guys can fill the roster.

Yep, the Hawks are gonna lose 10 or 11 players to injury in the Olympics. Yeah, sure. No, I'm not buying that argument at all.

And yes, Rockford players are leaving to go to other teams when they are restricted (non-tendered) or unrestricted free agents. Why wouldn't they? They see they have no spot with the Hawks, so it's time to move on to other teams. I don't blame them one bit.

Cam Barker was awful. That's why he was let go for nothing. Good move there. They got a younger and better player in Leddy.

Ben Smith is not one mistake away from going back to Rockford. He's here to stay. He would have been here to stay three years ago if he didn't get hurt (badly).

Right now, Pirri and Morin and Nordstrom and Clendening aren't ready to be with the Hawks. On an emergency basis, maybe...but not long term YET. That's why they AREN'T with the Hawks right now. If they were good enough to displace someone else from the roster, they would. Hard for you to understand, I know....but you don't throw younger players out there just because they are younger. They have to be better.

 

[anotheridiot]

Yep, the Hawks are gonna lose 10 or 11 players to injury in the Olympics. Yeah, sure. No, I'm not buying that argument at all.

And yes, Rockford players are leaving to go to other teams when they are restricted (non-tendered) or unrestricted free agents. Why wouldn't they? They see they have no spot with the Hawks, so it's time to move on to other teams. I don't blame them one bit.

Cam Barker was awful. That's why he was let go for nothing. Good move there. They got a younger and better player in Leddy.

Ben Smith is not one mistake away from going back to Rockford. He's here to stay. He would have been here to stay three years ago if he didn't get hurt (badly).

Right now, Pirri and Morin and Nordstrom and Clendening aren't ready to be with the Hawks. On an emergency basis, maybe...but not long term YET. That's why they AREN'T with the Hawks right now. If they were good enough to displace someone else from the roster, they would. Hard for you to understand, I know....but you don't throw younger players out there just because they are younger. They have to be better.

Right, and what you dont understand is you do not keep filling the roster with veteran players via free agency or trades IF you want your prospects to have a place to play. You cannot say there is no room on the roster if you keep filling that room. That is the Bowman regimes choice. Either you become a full time player immediately or you are never gonna make it here. Bringing players up and giving them 7 minutes in a 6-1 game is a waste or their time.

And dont be a moron, nobody said they are gonna lose 11 players to injury at the olympics, all it takes is one.

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

Yep, the Hawks are gonna lose 10 or 11 players to injury in the Olympics. Yeah, sure. No, I'm not buying that argument at all.

And yes, Rockford players are leaving to go to other teams when they are restricted (non-tendered) or unrestricted free agents. Why wouldn't they? They see they have no spot with the Hawks, so it's time to move on to other teams. I don't blame them one bit.

Cam Barker was awful. That's why he was let go for nothing. Good move there. They got a younger and better player in Leddy.

Ben Smith is not one mistake away from going back to Rockford. He's here to stay. He would have been here to stay three years ago if he didn't get hurt (badly).

Right now, Pirri and Morin and Nordstrom and Clendening aren't ready to be with the Hawks. On an emergency basis, maybe...but not long term YET. That's why they AREN'T with the Hawks right now. If they were good enough to displace someone else from the roster, they would. Hard for you to understand, I know....but you don't throw younger players out there just because they are younger. They have to be better.

Is it really fair to say that about Adam Clendening? So far, he has yet to even be given an opportunity to see how well he would do for the Hawks. He's been by far the best player on the IceHogs tho. If anyone on the farm deserves a shot right now it's Clendening.