Last 8 games for KC has been pretty good

[skinsdad62]

my point on the haters /doubters were /is they wont concede that he can improve the label was career BU and that is it below avg qb was the mantra tell me that wasnt said by you all

 

[skinsdad62]

MMRR: Portis: "Kirk Is Doing A Great Job" 

love the music during the highlights

 

[ehb5]

my point on the haters /doubters were /is they wont concede that he can improve the label was career BU and that is it below avg qb was the mantra tell me that wasnt said

I never thought you were a hater ehb, I thought you weren't giving the kid a chance to grow. Actually you are assuming way more credit for this then I ever intended towards you.

I have said this before and will say it again. I am no personnel guy. I have been around football most of my life either playing, coaching or hanging around nephews that both play for their colleges. In other words I know enough to be dangerous. All that said and I have recounted this story before. I was in a leaving a restaurant in Occoquan, VA when I looked at my phone and saw we drafted Cousins. I was excited. I thought he had a chance to be an NFL QB. I also knew it could go either way. On the other hand I thought Wilson was too short to play in the NFL.

My complaint from the beginning of the year was to NOT label the guy a career backup, loser etc until he had a chance to learn and grow. I'll admit that I though it was 50/50 when the season started and I don't think it is a done deal now but it sure is looking a lot better than it did in early October.

I get that. Sure I thought going into this season, Cousins would be nothing more than a career backup, but I absolutely knew he had a chance to be better. Only a fool would give him NO chance to improve. That said, I was reaching that conclusion or prediction based on the evidence we had available to us at the time. I liked Cousins a bit coming out of school too, but to me youd have been crazy to think he was going to have this season. The next guy to start his career like Cousins did will likely get the same eval from me. But I absolutely was open to the possibility of him improving even if I didnt find it likely. And throughout this season as he has improved I have given him more and more credit which - I think - is all that can be asked of me.

 

[ehb5]

Your missing my point. I never said he was going to be a quality starter, all I said was he was better than anything else we had, his turnover rate was not uncommon (while many seemed to act like he was the only one that ever threw a rash of INTs early on), and that we need to give him the full season before we passed final judgement.

I will say this, your hanging on his early INT rate is why many think you are a hater. Based on the data I offered, it was clear that should have been expected. But you always present it like he was the only one. Even this latest post ("the worst interception rate") seems biased. You are intelligent enough to know that this is a meaningless stat due to the small sample size. That is like saying that QB for Dallas that threw 3 INTs Saturday in his first real game now has the worst INT rate in history. Yet you continued to offer that as your main reason, even when KC stopped turning it over.

My final thought is this. We still don't know the end product for KC. He may regress, he may turn out to be a Drew Brees. But for us to find out, we have to pay him. Because someone else will. Many others, probably. And from what I've seen, he has the potential to be a productive QB. If we lose him, we go back to cycling through the Rex grossmans, John Becks, and RG3s. And that is way more expensive than giving KC a starters contract.

Well hey I think your missing my point lol. I understand if you werent betting on him to be this good. I understand if you were just saying hey hes the best we have lets play him and see what happens. My point is though that I thought all that too. I was cool with him getting a chance and seeing if he could improve.

As for the INTs, thats certainly something some young QBs cut down on but some dont. And while it was over the span of 407 attempts - having the worst INT rate by era in history is noteworthy IMO. Its not like I came up with this stat - one of the best football writers around pointed it out to me in an article. To toss that out as just something young QBs do seems foolish to me. Ultimately, it doesnt appear to be a trend thats sticking with him - thank God. But if I look like a hater for realizing that his first 3 seasons (14 games, 9 starts, 407 attempts, whatever you wana call it) were bad, then I cant help ya. I would make that judgment on anybody. Its like if RG3 had played this year and had this season. I wouldnt think you were biased for not seeing that coming - nobody should have. So hopefully we're on the same page now lol.

 

[ehb5]

my point on the haters /doubters were /is they wont concede that he can improve the label was career BU and that is it below avg qb was the mantra tell me that wasnt said by you all

Well I think your missing the changes in views. At the start of the season I thought yea probably backup. By idk week 10 lets say I wasnt convinced he was any more than a stop gap. But as Ive said hes continually getting better. If Cousins finishes the season as a league average QB Im not gonna feel bad about not calling him a league average QB in week 8 when he probably wasnt one. So (at least for me) to say the haters wont concede he can improve is just completely disregarding everything Ive said since the preseason.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

I get that. Sure I thought going into this season, Cousins would be nothing more than a career backup, but I absolutely knew he had a chance to be better. Only a fool would give him NO chance to improve. That said, I was reaching that conclusion or prediction based on the evidence we had available to us at the time. I liked Cousins a bit coming out of school too, but to me youd have been crazy to think he was going to have this season. The next guy to start his career like Cousins did will likely get the same eval from me. But I absolutely was open to the possibility of him improving even if I didnt find it likely. And throughout this season as he has improved I have given him more and more credit which - I think - is all that can be asked of me.

Think this is a fair representation of your stance that I saw over the course of the season.

 

[j_y19]

Well hey I think your missing my point lol. I understand if you werent betting on him to be this good. I understand if you were just saying hey hes the best we have lets play him and see what happens. My point is though that I thought all that too. I was cool with him getting a chance and seeing if he could improve.

As for the INTs, thats certainly something some young QBs cut down on but some dont. And while it was over the span of 407 attempts - having the worst INT rate by era in history is noteworthy IMO. Its not like I came up with this stat - one of the best football writers around pointed it out to me in an article. To toss that out as just something young QBs do seems foolish to me. Ultimately, it doesnt appear to be a trend thats sticking with him - thank God. But if I look like a hater for realizing that his first 3 seasons (14 games, 9 starts, 407 attempts, whatever you wana call it) were bad, then I cant help ya. I would make that judgment on anybody. Its like if RG3 had played this year and had this season. I wouldnt think you were biased for not seeing that coming - nobody should have. So hopefully we're on the same page now lol.

Fair enough. All I as is you go back and look at Peyton mannings first couple of years, or aikman or, the worst ever, Bradshaw. Or pick out any QB you respect. If I remember correctly Bradshaw averaged one INT for every 10 attempts for his first COUPLE of years. 407 attempts is minoscule in the grad scheme of things. That's a half season for many.

 

[ehb5]

Think this is a fair representation of your stance that I saw over the course of the season.

Thank you lol. I feel like you're the reasonable calm mediator in the midst of the rest of our bickering and emotion.

 

[ehb5]

Fair enough. All I as is you go back and look at Peyton mannings first couple of years, or aikman or, the worst ever, Bradshaw. Or pick out any QB you respect. If I remember correctly Bradshaw averaged one INT for every 10 attempts for his first COUPLE of years. 407 attempts is minoscule in the grad scheme of things. That's a half season for many.

Absolutely. Of course I could go the other way and find plenty of examples to support the other side but what's the point. Ultimately I think I had my completely justified reasons for doubting him coming into the season and it ended up that i was wrong. It happens. And I'm more than happy to admit that.

 

[JonBlaze]

I've been a Cousins doubter. It's hard to change your thinking when so many games have suggested otherwise. But KC has shown the right trajectory in his development this year. I will admit I didn't think he'd do it as he was this close to being benched vs Tampa. It's been enjoyable to be wrong some of the time Then I think back to some of the ugly performances and it gets me doubting if this could be a long term thing.

 

[Breed]

If I'm listed amongst the haters or doubters I'm OK with it. Though I think I'm more doubter than hater. I hit Baja Saturday and didn't get back till today so I didn't see the game live. I did watch it earlier today and I must say, I was very impressed with KC. It was imo his best game as a professional and it came against a pretty decent defense as well making it more impressive. He did some things that I'd been hoping he would. Going deep, throwing passes that while his players weren't wide open, he trusted them to make a play, Jax's TD and Reed's 1st TD come to mind. His TD run was fuckin SWEET! and gave him an impressive 5 TD rushes and 8 FDs on only 21 carries. He looked decisive, in control, relaxed, everything you'd want your team's QB to look like. The Skins led by Cuz even slammed the door shut and said hell nah there ain't no comeback here, fellas! when Buffalo cut it to 28-17 with PG's TD.

Now at the risk of being called arrogant again by another poster. KC's performance as well as the rest of the team's performance. Has me fully expecting the Skins to get another monkey off their back. I want and expect the Skins to win their last 2 games, both on the road, and go into the playoffs through the front door on their own merit. None of that we need so n so to lose bullshit.

Here comes the but though. Short of the Skins winning the Super Bowl this year. I'm not gonna be convinced that anything has really changed. I've seen this movie too many times before or some variation of it. In 1999 the Brad Johnson-led Skins were arguably the 2nd best offense in the NFL behind the Rams and a bad FG att snap away from playing them in the NFCCG. In 2000 they crashed and burned. In 2005 Joe Gibbs showed that he still had the chops to be a top tier NFL HC and led the Skins to the playoffs. In 2006 they crashed and burned again. In 2007 Todd Collins took over for the an injured Jason Campbell and led the Skins into he playoffs on the strength of an impressive 4 game winning streak. That had some talking heads opining that the Skins were playing the best ball of any team going into the playoffs that year. In 2008, crash and burn part 3. And finally in 2012 Robert Griffin electrified the NFL and the Skins and led them to their last NFC East title and looked to be primed to put a foot in Seattle's ass in rd 1. Till he hurt himself on a play he wasn't touched on by an opposing player and it was all downhill from there. And in In 2013 we once again witnessed a crash n burn with an RG3 twist added into the mix. Nope, as far as me being convinced a true and real turnaround has occurred in Redskins Park with the Washington Redskins. I'm gonna have to see 2 successive seasons strung together.................or a Super Bowl win. That said, congrats to KC. Unless he utterly crashes and burns in the Skins 2 remaining games and I don't see that happening. He's about to get paid and paid well. He earned it.

 

[Sportster 72]

It looks like he will be our QB for the next few years so hopefully two or three years from now we are all happy about that. If not we start all over again.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Slightly OT but still about Cuz...lulz

 

[Sharkinva]

Slightly OT but still about Cuz...lulz

THis time next year, his conversion van will look like this

 

[redskinsfan]

I'm wondering if Cousins' camp will make cutting Robert a condition for beginning negotiations. I'm sure it'll happen, but the question is when he'll finally be given his pink slip.

 

[gkekoa]

Kirk Cousins is making more money each week. At this point, I have a very frank discussion with him...after the season. Let him know our current price is 5 years, 75 million with the first two years fully guaranteed. Performance bonuses can get him up to 18 million per season. I would also let him talk to other teams and find out what the market commands. I would let him know he isn't going anywhere though. If the market is demanding but we can accept it, we would match their offer. If we can't handle the match, let him know we will franchise him and work on a future contract as the season progresses.

 

[Sharkinva]

I'm wondering if Cousins' camp will make cutting Robert a condition for beginning negotiations. I'm sure it'll happen, but the question is when he'll finally be given his pink slip.

OH this is going to be a must happen in order to get Kirk resigned. The question is how do the Skins want to play it. And i think they are hedging their bets still until the season finally plays out. As I mentioned about a month ago, if we release Griffin we get nothing in return for the investment. Now if we are sold on Kirk, this might not be a big deal.

However, if they are dead set on trying to recoup something for him, they might have to double down, franchise tag Kirk and hold Griffin into the new league year in hopes of working out a trade. Now the risk there is, no one wants to trade for him and every one who wants him assumes we will eventually cut him due to his cap figure. We only save the cap space if we cut him before March 3rd, or trade him. If he is there on March 4th, we either have a trade in place, or KIrk is likely going to play out the season on the Franchise tag. I simply dont see Kirks agent letting him sign a long term deal here as long as Griffin is still on the roster.

So the final bonus question becomes, if they do double down, do they use the light tag ( $18.5 MIllion) Which allows Kirk to negotiate with other teams and we get 2 first rounders if he bolts... or do they Go Heavy ( $25 million) and exclusive rights approach.

 

[Sharkinva]

Kirk Cousins is making more money each week. At this point, I have a very frank discussion with him...after the season. Let him know our current price is 5 years, 75 million with the first two years fully guaranteed. Performance bonuses can get him up to 18 million per season. I would also let him talk to other teams and find out what the market commands. I would let him know he isn't going anywhere though. If the market is demanding but we can accept it, we would match their offer. If we can't handle the match, let him know we will franchise him and work on a future contract as the season progresses.

This would have to be done before the begining of the league year. If we simply let him talk to other teams without a tag, we cant simply say we dont want to match so we will just tag you now.

The Tag goes in place, Cousins can sign it, meaning he cant shop around. Or he can shop giving the Skins the right to match his best offer OR take the two first rounders associated with the tag.

 

[redskinsfan]

OH this is going to be a must happen in order to get Kirk resigned. The question is how do the Skins want to play it. And i think they are hedging their bets still until the season finally plays out. As I mentioned about a month ago, if we release Griffin we get nothing in return for the investment. Now if we are sold on Kirk, this might not be a big deal.

However, if they are dead set on trying to recoup something for him, they might have to double down, franchise tag Kirk and hold Griffin into the new league year in hopes of working out a trade. Now the risk there is, no one wants to trade for him and every one who wants him assumes we will eventually cut him due to his cap figure. We only save the cap space if we cut him before March 3rd, or trade him. If he is there on March 4th, we either have a trade in place, or KIrk is likely going to play out the season on the Franchise tag. I simply dont see Kirks agent letting him sign a long term deal here as long as Griffin is still on the roster.

So the final bonus question becomes, if they do double down, do they use the light tag ( $18.5 MIllion) Which allows Kirk to negotiate with other teams and we get 2 first rounders if he bolts... or do they Go Heavy ( $25 million) and exclusive rights approach.

I'd say we go heavy to make sure he doesn't get away, though I believe if we use the lower one, we'll still be okay. Even with the $25M tag, cutting Robert will "only" result in a net $9M hit on our cap. But it's worth it to make sure we don't end up fishing for an iffy QB in the draft or the garbage that will be on the free agent market. As for Kirk, if I were him, I'd want to stay here. He knows the system, he's got a coach that believes i him and designed the system around him, and he'll be on a team that's on the rise. I'm hoping he doesn't have hard feelings on the way the Redskins brass treated him in the early going, but there's a lot of upside in staying the course here.

And you know Shananhan must be watching all this with his underwear down near his ankles right about now.

 

[Sharkinva]

I'd say we go heavy to make sure he doesn't get away, though I believe if we use the lower one, we'll still be okay. Even with the $25M tag, cutting Robert will "only" result in a net $9M hit on our cap. But it's worth it to make sure we don't end up fishing for an iffy QB in the draft or the garbage that will be on the free agent market. As for Kirk, if I were him, I'd want to stay here. He knows the system, he's got a coach that believes i him and designed the system around him, and he'll be on a team that's on the rise. I'm hoping he doesn't have hard feelings on the way the Redskins brass treated him in the early going, but there's a lot of upside in staying the course here.

And you know Shananhan must be watching all this with his underwear down near his ankles right about now.

Oh IM sure Mike will send Dan a life sized ass selfie with the words kiss me written on them once we resign Kirk. As for the Robert angle, we should start hearing rumors one way or another by the end of next month. I will hedge my bet and say they wont out right release him until the final moment if they cant swing a trade on day one of the league year. And thats mainly because if he is released the day after the Super Bowl, he is free to sign any place. And thats one more month we dont want him having the playbook in the event he signs within the Division.

I still think there is an outside chance we pull a trade and sign and get a 3rd or 4th rounder for him to the right team. Very outside chance.