Lakers vs Spurs series thread

[Cougar44]

Oh man, check this fucked up shit out. So my wonderful, lovely, awesome wife decides this Sunday, yeah that's right, tomorrow is a fine fucking day to have a "playdate" for my 5 and 7 year olds.........AT OUR GODDAMN HOUSE! So I says "Hey baby, hows about I take off for a while tomorrow around 1:30 mountain standard time, you know, just to go to the park or something". Nope, need you to help with the playdate. I am forced with a problem here..........do I want to fight? Not really, don't win that often. Do I just leave? Just end up fighting later. Think I'll try to hide downstairs or something. The real pisser is I know she did this shit on purpose...........
Sam

Except for the child..you could be posting most of our homes???

 

[Big Red Slugs]

D12 is a great player to build around, it's hard to see for some Slugs because he is a defensive player first. We need others around him to play some team defense who can put together a decent offensive output. Not sure what that looks like in the long run but I bet Mitch does...

BTW - Welcome aboard Slugs.... Ignore the trolls bro haven't seen it here this bad ever. And when I say "ignore" I do mean it. When you get to 40 post you can ignore anyone you choose, and it's as if they are not even there.

Absolutely right, Vita.

I've learned over the years to trust Mitch, although that whole thing about "unanimous decision" really disappointed me. I knew it wasn't true when he said it, then Magic came out and confirmed my suspicion, so I still got faith in Mitch, just worried about Jim a bit.

 

[Vitamike]

Absolutely right, Vita.

I've learned over the years to trust Mitch, although that whole thing about "unanimous decision" really disappointed me. I knew it wasn't true when he said it, then Magic came out and confirmed my suspicion, so I still got faith in Mitch, just worried about Jim a bit.

Jimbo could be a problem, now out of the shadow of papa he may make a mark of his own.. Only time will tell if it's a mark to be proud of or not...

 

[jayviabay]

i am posting with substance. a lot of u dolts think kobe would make a difference. u all talk in the abstract. the fact of the matter is yes he would make a difference with all the faker guards being injured.

as a corollary to that, his bloated salary strangles ur team. thats a reason why kobina injured is such a loss.

show me where i said Kobe would make a difference? I am commenting on how you down play kobe and his accomplishments.

How many championships has he contributed to and 1st all defensive teams has he been selected to??

 

[jayviabay]

Didn't think this sort of thinking still existed. Dinosaurs.

Please name any other player in the league outside of LBJ or KD that you would rather build around?

I can name several players I would build a team around but it wouldnt be players available in a sign and trade.

I respect your opinion and stance on Howard so just respect mine. To agree to disagree is a beautiful thing.

I dont think howard has the heart of a champion. he is very child like and that disturbs me. Like you said yourself, it seemed like he was trying to foul out on purpose. What type of franchise player stoop to such antics? when he is not having "fun", he seems to lack effort. This is just my opinion and thats all it is

 

[Big Red Slugs]

I can name several players I would build a team around but it wouldnt be players available in a sign and trade.

Okay . . .

I respect your opinion and stance on Howard so just respect mine. To agree to disagree is a beautiful thing.

No problem with agreeing to disagree, I just honestly didn't think anyone out there was still thinking the Lakers should trade Dwight Howard.

It was absurd to me earlier in the season when the media was selling that shit platter and people were gobbling it up, and it's still absurd to me now. Difference is earlier in the season people were saying to trade Howard based on the flawed thinking that we had to get something for him before he bolts this summer, but we knew all along he wasn't going to "commit" mid-season anyway, so it was just a bunch of media bs to me.

Seems you want to trade him now for a different reason, though . . .

I dont think howard has the heart of a champion. he is very child like and that disturbs me. Like you said yourself, it seemed like he was trying to foul out on purpose. What type of franchise player stoop to such antics? when he is not having "fun", he seems to lack effort. This is just my opinion and thats all it is

. . . And I just think he needs a better coach. He's still a relatively young guy, and regardless of what you/I think about his personality, that's a whole lot easier to correct with good, strong coaching than it is to acquire any other guy in the league with his proven talent.

Bigs are a major commodity and the especially good ones usually come with some personality issues, so I personally am not willing to cut bait on this one at all.

 

[Retroram52]

Hey Vita and BSR: Jim Buss has some disturbing behaviors in running the club that may contribute to some of the disjointedness we are seeing now and the proposed actions into the future. One of those is when Phil left. He removed all connections to Phil including alot of the scouting department and he moved his brothers into Phils old office. His brothers run the soccer franchise for cryin' out loud. And the word is, his scouting department is next to nothing. Perhaps he may want to re-think this.

 

[jayviabay]

. . . And I just think he needs a better coach. He's still a relatively young guy, and regardless of what you/I think about his personality, that's a whole lot easier to correct with good, strong coaching than it is to acquire any other guy in the league with his proven talent.

Bigs are a major commodity and the especially good ones usually come with some personality issues, so I personally am not willing to cut bait on this one at all.[/QUOTE]

I agree, Bigs are a major commodity. If howard does make a commitment to the Lakers, I hope your assessment is more right than mine. That being said, I hope they see Mike D is not the coach to build a team around howard.

I was hoping they fire Adelman in minn. and we snag him, also like to see what brian shaw could do...

 

[Big Red Slugs]

I was hoping they fire Adelman in minn. and we snag him, also like to see what brian shaw could do...

I like Adelman, too. But I think he stepped down because of his wife's health in Minnesota last month. I don't know if that's just cover for wanting to leave, but I do agree with you on Adelman.

Always liked B. Shaw as well. A lot of people don't like Byron Scott anymore, but I still do A LOT. JVG is out there. Nate McMillan is still out there as well, I think, right?

Point is, there are plenty of good options for moving past the failed experiment of Mike D'Antoni, even if we don't have a good fit for Phil. All in all, we absolutely have to get rid of Mike D'Antoni, and I think Howard will help tremendously in making that happen this summer.

 

[Big Red Slugs]

Hey Vita and BSR: Jim Buss has some disturbing behaviors in running the club that may contribute to some of the disjointedness we are seeing now and the proposed actions into the future. One of those is when Phil left. He removed all connections to Phil including alot of the scouting department and he moved his brothers into Phils old office. His brothers run the soccer franchise for cryin' out loud. And the word is, his scouting department is next to nothing. Perhaps he may want to re-think this.

Yeah, I might be delusional but I think the best option is if Jim Buss could just realize that bringing Phil in would actually help the franchise and even help relieve some of the pressure on Jim Buss himself. Not sure he can see that, though.

And something I've been wondering about, what happens if Dwight Howard walks into Mitch's office this summer and says he wants to play for Phil. Does Jim Buss let him walk?

 

[Retroram52]

Some of the things that Jim Buss has said and done since he assumed a primary owner role are simply diabolical. Afterall, this is the guy that drafted Andrew Bynum, supported him thorugh his early playing days with all of the injury issues, knew about his weed issues, must have known about the medical status of Bynum's knees, and then out of the blue (or so it seemed) trades him to Philadelphia to bring Howard here. Now we are seeing that Bynum's knees are so bad, he may never play another minute of basketball and someone in the Lakers organization snookered the Sixers-again. Either Buss knew and is a very shrewed businessman, or he did not know and somebody else pulled that trade off.

Jim often appears dissociated from reality when he is interviewed which is not many times because he avoids the media often. But if Dwight walked into Mitch's office and stated he wanted to play for Phil and Phil is say coaching in Toronto (the latest suitor) I'm not sure what would happen because of Jim's consistent diabolical behavior. Maybe that is why Jeannie is close by and Jim consults with her to get a reality check before anything goes down. He strikes me as dude with untreated Asperger's Syndrome and his sister is the real brains behind the operation.

One thing for sure. Jim does have to rid this organization of the Don'tknowi experiment because it is obvious to everyone except perhaps Jim Buss that this experiment is over. There is nothing more to gain by subjecting the players to this horrific example of clueless coaching I have ever witnessed in 50+ years of following the Lakers.

Brian Shaw would really be the best replacement. At least Shaw knows what to do with two bigs of the quality of Howard and Gasol and he certainly knows how to make game-sync adjustments which as Wlk3 has adequately posted, Don'tknowi just seems always out-of-sync with the game and its coaching requirements.

 

[lakersrule]

Not sure the S&T is available for the Lakers/Howard due to the new CBA rules kicking in. I certainly disagree with such a notion anyway. Dwight is just about back to being Orlando Dwight and should be completely back by the start of next season.

Orlando Dwight is easily a top 5 player in this league and someone I would build a team around. He still put up pretty good numbers this season considering the injuries and the drama. He's the best defensive player in the league when healthy. We saw this the last several weeks of the season. His lift is back. He's able to make multiple jumps. He can challenge shots and recover for rebounds. He is getting up and down the court quickly. He's a freakish athlete who has his athleticsim back and who I think will be back to dominating this league again next season.

 

[trojanfan12]

Not sure the S&T is available for the Lakers/Howard due to the new CBA rules kicking in. I certainly disagree with such a notion anyway. Dwight is just about back to being Orlando Dwight and should be completely back by the start of next season.

Orlando Dwight is easily a top 5 player in this league and someone I would build a team around. He still put up pretty good numbers this season considering the injuries and the drama. He's the best defensive player in the league when healthy. We saw this the last several weeks of the season. His lift is back. He's able to make multiple jumps. He can challenge shots and recover for rebounds. He is getting up and down the court quickly. He's a freakish athlete who has his athleticsim back and who I think will be back to dominating this league again next season.

Agree!! Bottom line on Dwight is this: The Lakers can pay him more than any other team in the league. If Dwight is dumb enough to walk away from an additional $25 million or so, then let him walk and the Lakers will re-build after next season when they have huge contracts coming off the books.

If he decides to stay, then we have one more season with this same team (for the most part) hopefully a healthier season and then the Lakers can re-build around Dwight after next season.

On Short Buss: hopefully, as someone pointed out, he is listening to Jeannie who should be running the franchise anyway. Hopefully Short Buss will be man enough and smart enough to swallow his pride and bring Phil back in some capacity.

On D'Antoni, I'm not sure that he's had a fair shot. With all of the injuries and the lack of training camp, he hasn't had a chance to make any adjustments of any kind with the roster intact. Bottom line, we have no clue as to what could have been accomplished if he had the full roster to work with all season long.

I believe that Short Buss set D'Antoni up (whether intentionally or not) to be the fall guy by the fact that he flirted with hiring Phil, let it get out publically and then hired D'Antoni before getting an answer from Phil. Once Laker fans and the media got wind of the flirtation with Phil, D'Antoni didn't stand a chance. In all honesty, considering all of the injuries, I'm not sure that the Lakers would have performed much better under Phil.

 

[Kold]

And something I've been wondering about, what happens if Dwight Howard walks into Mitch's office this summer and says he wants to play for Phil. Does Jim Buss let him walk?

No chance possible. Like I said earlier in the year, Dwight will get whatever he wants. It's just the way it is, the superstar FA always gets what they want because they have all of the leverage.....and to the other topic, I've been on the it'd be a bad move to trade Dwight Howard train from the very beginning. The guy just means way too much to this team and the future of the organization.

 

[starbigd]

No chance possible. Like I said earlier in the year, Dwight will get whatever he wants. It's just the way it is, the superstar FA always gets what they want because they have all of the leverage.....and to the other topic, I've been on the it'd be a bad move to trade Dwight Howard train from the very beginning. The guy just means way too much to this team and the future of the organization.

Not sure why you think Howard means ANYTHING to your roster. Every game you lose, he gets the blame, yet you still want to keep him? For what purpose?

I've been banging on one specific drum about the Lakers for 5 years now.....and thats that the main issue is age on the perimeter, and not being able to guard shooters and PGs.

I've been 100% right and very FEW Lakers fans seem to grasp it. The Lakers can't guard GUARDS.

They've had two 7 ft all stars in the frontcourt for YEARS and it's gotten them nothing. WHY? Because damn near EVERY team in the West has an all star caliber PG and SGs that can light you up from outside. The Lakers have YET to join the rest of the conference in this......they don't defend dribble penetration, and they don't get out on shooters.

The best way to address this would have been to trade Howard when you had the chance. Honestly, Pau, Howard, World Peace, Nash, Jamison should NOT be on this roster next year. But I somehow doubt the fans or the GM will get this either.

 

[wlk3]

A few points...when Phil was brought up I believed if he was trying to be a part time coach he shouldn't be hired and was happy to see Dantoni signed, to see this "offensive genius" get to work with Nash and all these new toys...since then I must say I have never felt more duped... He is terrible, and I gave him a lot more leeway than most...tonight I saw some real effort in getting the ball to Dwight by moving the ball from side to top and then lob... Problem was the Spurs adjusted, that's when it was his move and be just shit on himself... Goudelock was on fire he should have worked him and Dwight on the same side Pau high and Jamison weak side short corner... Dwight had 2 3 and 4 guys in his lap most game...yet nothing... He must go!!!

And moves must be made...I appreciate what Pau has brought but as pointed out just above our Perimeter is slow... Kobe and Dwight are the only starters that need to be brought back...maybe Artest because he will be hard to move... trade Pau to Indiana for Granger and Mahini and make a run at Brandon Jennings who would probably take less money to play with Kobe and the Lakers and now you got Jennings and Dwight when Kobe retires, oh and amnesty Nash...

Jennings
Kobe
Granger
Artest
Dwight

Bench:
Blake
Goudelock
Jamison
Jordan Hill
Mahini
Sacre
Morris
Duhon

I'm no GM but I think it's possible with West at the end of his deal and Pacers moving on from Granger... But something must be done... This team is not only slow but refuses to give full effort all game, unless they just don't have it... Either way it's unacceptable...

 

[Big Red Slugs]

Not sure why you think Howard means ANYTHING to your roster. Every game you lose, he gets the blame, yet you still want to keep him? For what purpose?

Because he's proven to be the best center in the game today.

Howard's impact on the defensive end alone makes him a top-5 player in my book, even hobbled. I'll remind you, as I've been saying all season, even before it became popular to say during broadcast: This season Howard was 1st in rebounding, 2nd on FG%, and 5th in blocked shots.

And I didn't realize Howard got blamed for every loss. I agree he's been undervalued by a lot of Lakers fans this season, but I don't recall the blame being placed squarely on his shoulders for anything more than maybe 2 or 3 games where he missed a bunch of free throws in a tight game. Trust that I was quick to dispel those concerns.

I've been banging on one specific drum about the Lakers for 5 years now.....and thats that the main issue is age on the perimeter, and not being able to guard shooters and PGs.

The Lakers have won 2 championships in the past 5 years.

I think you're magnifying, without actually mentioning, the drop-off in Kobe's ability to sustain hawkish perimeter defense. That is an issue, and there's a reason his contract is up after next season, and the Lakers will retool with yet another elite perimeter player in his spot to pair with Howard.

But you do have a point that the Lakers have been fairly weak at slowing the quicker PGs throughout our championships in the past 15 years and that the West is getting particularly quicker at that position, but the point you're missing is that we've been winning championships nonetheless.

I think a lot of it goes back to the fact that Phil likes bigger, typically slower PGs, so that's what we've ended up with for the most part in the past.

I've been 100% right and very FEW Lakers fans seem to grasp it. The Lakers can't guard GUARDS.

You've been 50% right at best. See above.

And plenty of Lakers fans grasp it. It's no secret that the Lakers have been slow on the perimeter for years, even amongst Lakers fans.

They've had two 7 ft all stars in the frontcourt for YEARS and it's gotten them nothing. WHY? Because damn near EVERY team in the West has an all star caliber PG and SGs that can light you up from outside. The Lakers have YET to join the rest of the conference in this......they don't defend dribble penetration, and they don't get out on shooters.

NEWS FLASH: The Lakers have dominated the NBA because we've always been able to acquire and retain the best big man in the game at the time.

And we almost always seem to pair that dominate big with an elite perimeter player or two as well. I have complete confidence in Mitch and the Lakers scouts' ability to get the job done again, as well as confidence that Howard won't allow Jim Buss to destroy the Lakers with ineptitude, because Howard will hold him over the barrel this summer to do the right thing.

The best way to address this would have been to trade Howard when you had the chance. Honestly, Pau, Howard, World Peace, Nash, Jamison should NOT be on this roster next year. But I somehow doubt the fans or the GM will get this either.

I bet you'd be the first one screaming, "The Mavs are BACK, bitches!" if Cuban were able to pull off a deal for Howard this summer. You and Cuban both would be more than happy to jettison Dirk and anyone else on your sorry roster for the chance.

Pau Gasol has put together 3 triple doubles in the past 6 games. I'll repeat, 3 trip-dubs in 6 games. I'd say he knows how to play the game better than most and certainly has something left in the tank. I'd personally hate to see the Lakers let him go. To me, Howard and Pau is what makes us unique. We just need a better coach.

Metta will probably be gone this summer, because next season is his option and he's been saying for a while that he'd like to finish his career in New York. His career is officially winding down now.

As for Nash, we need to let Toronto take him already for Kyle Lowry. Personally, I still hate Steve Nash and I've never trusted his intentions in putting on a Lakers jersey. He must go, so we agree there.

And Jamison is a FA now. Did you get that?

 

[trojanfan12]

Not sure why you think Howard means ANYTHING to your roster. Every game you lose, he gets the blame, yet you still want to keep him? For what purpose?

I've been banging on one specific drum about the Lakers for 5 years now.....and thats that the main issue is age on the perimeter, and not being able to guard shooters and PGs.

I've been 100% right and very FEW Lakers fans seem to grasp it. The Lakers can't guard GUARDS.

They've had two 7 ft all stars in the frontcourt for YEARS and it's gotten them nothing. WHY? Because damn near EVERY team in the West has an all star caliber PG and SGs that can light you up from outside. The Lakers have YET to join the rest of the conference in this......they don't defend dribble penetration, and they don't get out on shooters.

The best way to address this would have been to trade Howard when you had the chance. Honestly, Pau, Howard, World Peace, Nash, Jamison should NOT be on this roster next year. But I somehow doubt the fans or the GM will get this either.

What are you talking about with Laker fans can't seem to grasp that the Lakers can't guard guards!! You haven't exactly come up with some basketball epiphany or unlocked some mystical secret. Laker fans KNOW that guards kill the Lakers. The Lakers have been getting torched by quick guards since 2000 and they still won 5 championships.

As for trading Howard. What do you think they would get for him in return? Why would a team trade any real value for him when they know he's going to be a free agent at the end of the season?

A team that has players to trade that would even come close to equal value for Howard can keep their players, make a run at him in free agency and if they don't get him, they can still sign another free agent to address the same need.

Oh and as for "They've had two 7 ft all stars in the frontcourt for YEARS and it's gotten them nothing". I'd hardly call 2 championships is 5 years, nothing!!

 

[LAKERSUSCBAM]

This team is not only slow but refuses to give full effort all game, unless they just don't have it... Either way it's unacceptable...

there's our achilles heel all season: refuses to give full effort all game!

so much of what is said is about offense, Kobe, blah blah but the team gave up 101 friggin points per game. How hard is that to figure that Buss hired the wrong coach who only preaches offense. Injuries, chemistry, two coaches, AND lack of defensive effort doomed this team.

totally agree with other posters that we need to get younger on the perimeter. It's likely we've either seen the last of Pau or Metta. You keep Howard as you can't teach height and he still was effective, not dominant, even with his recovery from injury probably not at 100% yet.

wonder if they regret giving Nash a 3 year contract??

 

[starbigd]

Because he's proven to be the best center in the game today.

Howard's impact on the defensive end alone makes him a top-5 player in my book, even hobbled. I'll remind you, as I've been saying all season, even before it became popular to say during broadcast: This season Howard was 1st in rebounding, 2nd on FG%, and 5th in blocked shots.

And I didn't realize Howard got blamed for every loss. I agree he's been undervalued by a lot of Lakers fans this season, but I don't recall the blame being placed squarely on his shoulders for anything more than maybe 2 or 3 games where he missed a bunch of free throws in a tight game. Trust that I was quick to dispel those concerns.



The Lakers have won 2 championships in the past 5 years.

I think you're magnifying, without actually mentioning, the drop-off in Kobe's ability to sustain hawkish perimeter defense. That is an issue, and there's a reason his contract is up after next season, and the Lakers will retool with yet another elite perimeter player in his spot to pair with Howard.

But you do have a point that the Lakers have been fairly weak at slowing the quicker PGs throughout our championships in the past 15 years and that the West is getting particularly quicker at that position, but the point you're missing is that we've been winning championships nonetheless.

I think a lot of it goes back to the fact that Phil likes bigger, typically slower PGs, so that's what we've ended up with for the most part in the past.



You've been 50% right at best. See above.

And plenty of Lakers fans grasp it. It's no secret that the Lakers have been slow on the perimeter for years, even amongst Lakers fans.



NEWS FLASH: The Lakers have dominated the NBA because we've always been able to acquire and retain the best big man in the game at the time.

And we almost always seem to pair that dominate big with an elite perimeter player or two as well. I have complete confidence in Mitch and the Lakers scouts' ability to get the job done again, as well as confidence that Howard won't allow Jim Buss to destroy the Lakers with ineptitude, because Howard will hold him over the barrel this summer to do the right thing.



I bet you'd be the first one screaming, "The Mavs are BACK, bitches!" if Cuban were able to pull off a deal for Howard this summer. You and Cuban both would be more than happy to jettison Dirk and anyone else on your sorry roster for the chance.

Pau Gasol has put together 3 triple doubles in the past 6 games. I'll repeat, 3 trip-dubs in 6 games. I'd say he knows how to play the game better than most and certainly has something left in the tank. I'd personally hate to see the Lakers let him go. To me, Howard and Pau is what makes us unique. We just need a better coach.

Metta will probably be gone this summer, because next season is his option and he's been saying for a while that he'd like to finish his career in New York. His career is officially winding down now.

As for Nash, we need to let Toronto take him already for Kyle Lowry. Personally, I still hate Steve Nash and I've never trusted his intentions in putting on a Lakers jersey. He must go, so we agree there.

And Jamison is a FA now. Did you get that?

Lets just say we disagree then. Your last title was in was in 2010, and much of this same roster was here......they've gotten older, slower, and MUCH of the West has changed, which is my point. That style of play will no longer cut it.

I have NEVER wanted Howard, and adding him does nothing for the Mavs. Why?

Because Dallas, like the Lakers, does NOT play inside out basketball!!!

Howard statistically gives you the SAME production you got with Bynum. It was at best, a lateral move. It does not/will not pay you any dividends.

As it stands right now, if you keep Howard......you HAVE to jettison Kobe, Pau, Metta, Nash. It's not even in question. Kobe's 80 mill along with a max deal for Howard eliminates ANY FAs, period. So you can't improve the roster.

So, somebody has to go, which is why trading was the smarter choice. Understand - without dumping salary, there will be NO courting Brandon Jennings. There will BE no new players. And despite what many a homer think, the Buss family is not paying 100 million in luxury tax for a 7 seed team. Hell they aren't paying that even for a title team, because it comes directly out of their pockets.

I'm sure many will disagree with me here......and that's fine, thats what these boards are for. But I stand by my statement.....I've been 100% CORRECT.