Lakers 2016 Season Thread

[Retroram52]

Metta is playing tonight. This might be the last games left in his career.

 

[Retroram52]

Unfreakinbelievable ending to the game. Russell hits a three as time expires and the Lakers win by one. Metta missed an earlier shot, Randle gets the rebound and dishes to Russell who shoots the three and it rimmed up and out then fell through as the clock hit zero! That about does it with four-in-a-row wins for the Lakers. WE will be in third place with the associated chances for the draft pick. If we win the last two, we still hold down the third spot.

 

[wildturkey]

They are just damn determined to give themselves the worst odds of keeping the pick. Phoenix yet again pulls out an unexpected victory and they miss the chance to pull even because Luke has the good players in to finish the game. This is the stuff I was talking about earlier when I said if you're gonna commit to tanking, commit to tanking. If you can toss out BS lineups in early March (like when Russell was benched for "reasons"), you can finish games with your scrubs in April. This method accomplishes nothing. You're hurting your tanking effort by winning games for the sake of "development" but you also wasted months of "development" by playing with lineups you damn well knew aren't going to be the future. That's why organizations from the FO to the coaching staff need to pick a side and stick with it to the end. Otherwise you're just going in circles

 

[tomodach10]

They are just damn determined to give themselves the worst odds of keeping the pick. Phoenix yet again pulls out an unexpected victory and they miss the chance to pull even because Luke has the good players in to finish the game. This is the stuff I was talking about earlier when I said if you're gonna commit to tanking, commit to tanking. If you can toss out BS lineups in early March (like when Russell was benched for "reasons"), you can finish games with your scrubs in April. This method accomplishes nothing. You're hurting your tanking effort by winning games for the sake of "development" but you also wasted months of "development" by playing with lineups you damn well knew aren't going to be the future. That's why organizations from the FO to the coaching staff need to pick a side and stick with it to the end. Otherwise you're just going in circles

I agree. I really thought they would lose last night. Well the season is over soon.

 

[wildturkey]

Another W (NO sat almost everyone). Lakers locked into 3rd worst. It's all luck now

 

[Retroram52]

Six -in-a-row going into the last game of this season. WE actually have improved our win total over the last two years and may end the year with a 7-game winning streak. I consider Luke's first year a success as he has brought a new culture to the Lakers. Along with Magic, I see a continued improvement and a return to prominence pretty darn soon!

 

[tomodach10]

Six -in-a-row going into the last game of this season. WE actually have improved our win total over the last two years and may end the year with a 7-game winning streak. I consider Luke's first year a success as he has brought a new culture to the Lakers. Along with Magic, I see a continued improvement and a return to prominence pretty darn soon!

they have improved, but I cant read to much into that due to teams sitting a lot of their starters. I just hope they have a good back up plan if we lose this pick. The good thing is, at least there is no Lebron James type player forecast in this years draft.

 

[trojanfan12]

they have improved, but I cant read to much into that due to teams sitting a lot of their starters. I just hope they have a good back up plan if we lose this pick. The good thing is, at least there is no Lebron James type player forecast in this years draft.

Actually, prior to last night and the Spurs (who started their guys, but pulled them early), teams haven't been sitting their starters. That's why it's encouraging.

Even if teams had been sitting their starters, just the additional playing time and playing the way Luke wants them to, helps their development.

 

[tomodach10]

Actually, prior to last night and the Spurs (who started their guys, but pulled them early), teams haven't been sitting their starters. That's why it's encouraging.

Even if teams had been sitting their starters, just the additional playing time and playing the way Luke wants them to, helps their development.

Teams they played were not at full strength. Gasol did not play in Lakers win.

 

[trojanfan12]

Teams they played were not at full strength. Gasol did not play in Lakers win.

Pretty much everyone else did. Point is, until the last couple of games, they haven't been getting teams who were playing only their scrubs.

I've also seen many people say they'd rather have the T-Wolves roster over the Lakers. Yet in the past 3 weeks, the Lakers have beaten the T-Wolves twice.

 

[wildturkey]

Actually, prior to last night and the Spurs (who started their guys, but pulled them early), teams haven't been sitting their starters. That's why it's encouraging.

Even if teams had been sitting their starters, just the additional playing time and playing the way Luke wants them to, helps their development.

You're making a mistake here if you're investing a lot into this line of thinking. You can't base anything thing for the future on April games. The wins are meaningless because you never know what you're gonna get from the opponent. You could get teams resting guys for the playoffs, teams tanking, or teams stuck in the middle just giving half ass effort as they count down the days to Cancun (like those T-Wolves). It's impossible to get an accurate reading as far as development goes because of that. It happens every year; some team or player goes streaking this late and people think it means something when its nothing more than just a result because someone has to win the game. When it comes to late season basketball in April, pay little attention to team win streaks or individual players putting up solid numbers (especially if they've never done so in the past). It's a mirage.

And I definitely wouldn't apply that thinking to this specific team considering they were absolutely trying to lose those games. You can't play the development card when healthy, good players are sitting and Artest is playing 25+ minutes.

 

[Retroram52]

Well this tortured season has come to a close losing to the Warriors. We have secured the third spot for chances at a top three pick. We ended at 26-56.

 

[trojanfan12]

You're making a mistake here if you're investing a lot into this line of thinking. You can't base anything thing for the future on April games. The wins are meaningless because you never know what you're gonna get from the opponent. You could get teams resting guys for the playoffs, teams tanking, or teams stuck in the middle just giving half ass effort as they count down the days to Cancun (like those T-Wolves). It's impossible to get an accurate reading as far as development goes because of that. It happens every year; some team or player goes streaking this late and people think it means something when its nothing more than just a result because someone has to win the game. When it comes to late season basketball in April, pay little attention to team win streaks or individual players putting up solid numbers (especially if they've never done so in the past). It's a mirage.

And I definitely wouldn't apply that thinking to this specific team considering they were absolutely trying to lose those games. You can't play the development card when healthy, good players are sitting and Artest is playing 25+ minutes.

The only ones I saw sitting was Russell over the last couple of games because he's with his family mourning the death of his grandma and Ingram was on a minutes restriction because of tendinitis in his knee. Luke gave Metta some minutes, out of respect, because it's almost certainly the end of his playing days (at least with the Lakers), what he's meant to the players as a mentor and he's a fan favorite.

I disagree on this line of thinking being a mistake. If this were a more veteran team, that had just had a bad run of injuries or had a season ending injury to their star player (ala David Robinson and the Spurs) I would agree. A team like that understands what is happening re: tanking.

However, this is a very, very young team whose previous coach had done next to nothing to develop them, so it was essentially everyone's rookie season. With a team that young, I want them out on the court playing the way the coach wants them to play and trying to develop winning habits.

You don't develop winning habits by asking/setting them up to lose. Sorry, but I will never agree that young guys develop/get better by intentionally losing games. It's a bad habit and it's the kind of thinking that causes teams to spend years (decades in some cases) chasing lottery balls.

 

[tomodach10]

You're making a mistake here if you're investing a lot into this line of thinking. You can't base anything thing for the future on April games. The wins are meaningless because you never know what you're gonna get from the opponent. You could get teams resting guys for the playoffs, teams tanking, or teams stuck in the middle just giving half ass effort as they count down the days to Cancun (like those T-Wolves). It's impossible to get an accurate reading as far as development goes because of that. It happens every year; some team or player goes streaking this late and people think it means something when its nothing more than just a result because someone has to win the game. When it comes to late season basketball in April, pay little attention to team win streaks or individual players putting up solid numbers (especially if they've never done so in the past). It's a mirage.

And I definitely wouldn't apply that thinking to this specific team considering they were absolutely trying to lose those games. You can't play the development card when healthy, good players are sitting and Artest is playing 25+ minutes.

thank you!! could not have said it better. Can't judge much of a team at the tail end of a season.

 

[wildturkey]

The only ones I saw sitting was Russell over the last couple of games because he's with his family mourning the death of his grandma and Ingram was on a minutes restriction because of tendinitis in his knee. Luke gave Metta some minutes, out of respect, because it's almost certainly the end of his playing days (at least with the Lakers), what he's meant to the players as a mentor and he's a fan favorite.

I disagree on this line of thinking being a mistake. If this were a more veteran team, that had just had a bad run of injuries or had a season ending injury to their star player (ala David Robinson and the Spurs) I would agree. A team like that understands what is happening re: tanking.

However, this is a very, very young team whose previous coach had done next to nothing to develop them, so it was essentially everyone's rookie season. With a team that young, I want them out on the court playing the way the coach wants them to play and trying to develop winning habits.

You don't develop winning habits by asking/setting them up to lose. Sorry, but I will never agree that young guys develop/get better by intentionally losing games. It's a bad habit and it's the kind of thinking that causes teams to spend years (decades in some cases) chasing lottery balls.

You are being willfully blind if you don't think that team was trying to lose for the last couple of months. Like you're basically on that island by yourself. 99.9% of anyone that watched NBA basketball this season saw what was up. Tanking and development are polar opposites. You can't develop all that stuff you touched on when you're trying to lose games by messing around with line ups, sitting healthy guys, etc. It doesn't work like that. You can't develop chemistry and cohesion when every night you might have a different line up or your sub pattern is different. You're not gaining anything, especially if its against April malaise teams giving minimal effort.

If LA's rotations and minutes all that jazz stayed consistent for months and this win streak happened at the end of the season, then I'd agree with you. But that's not what happened. They were tanking and they ended up winning more games than they probably should have.

 

[tomodach10]

When a team decides to sit healthy (better players) and develop youth, that is code for tanking. Saw that with phoenix and Bledsoe. Also, you are not going to build team chemistry juggling lineups against teams not caring much about the end of the season. That win streak at the end of the season only damaged odds of keeping pick nothing more. Has no effect on next year IMO.

 

[trojanfan12]

You are being willfully blind if you don't think that team was trying to lose for the last couple of months. Like you're basically on that island by yourself.

I didn't say they weren't trying to lose over the past couple of months. I said previously that the FO set up the tanking by trading Lou Williams, shutting down Deng and Mozgov (although that may have contributed to the win streak lol) and by apparently also shutting down Nick Young. So, you really need to respond to what I said, not change what I've said to try and "be right."

I also said that the players did not try to lose and they shouldn't be asked to. This is a very young team trying to develop/learn winning habits. You can disagree all you want, but you don't develop winning habits in young players by asking them to lose.

The Lakers FO did what they needed to do, they got rid of/shut down the vets and ran with the kids. The kids started winning. I'm not going to complain about that.

Tanking and development are polar opposites.

No, they aren't. The tanking was set by the FO by shutting down/trading vets. That left it on the young guys to get the majority of the playing time expecting that they would lose a lot, which they did until the last 6 games of the season. Playing time is how young guys develop.

You can't develop all that stuff you touched on when you're trying to lose games by messing around with line ups, sitting healthy guys, etc. It doesn't work like that. You can't develop chemistry and cohesion when every night you might have a different line up or your sub pattern is different. You're not gaining anything, especially if its against April malaise teams giving minimal effort.

It's really not as complicated as you try to make it.

Luke was using changing lineups with the young guys. That's part of developing them. He was experimenting to see which of the young guys played best together and also by looking at them at different positions (i.e. having Russell play more as a 2 guard.

If LA's rotations and minutes all that jazz stayed consistent for months and this win streak happened at the end of the season, then I'd agree with you. But that's not what happened. They were tanking and they ended up winning more games than they probably should have.

What was consistent was running the young guys out there and exposing them to different situations to see how they reacted. That's part of their development.

Also, your "99.9%" comment is just your unsubstantiated opinion and basically bullshit people use to try and pretend their opinion is fact. You're better than that.

You and I are just going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[trojanfan12]

When a team decides to sit healthy (better players) and develop youth, that is code for tanking. Saw that with phoenix and Bledsoe. Also, you are not going to build team chemistry juggling lineups against teams not caring much about the end of the season. That win streak at the end of the season only damaged odds of keeping pick nothing more. Has no effect on next year IMO.

Exactly. That's what I have said all along. I agree with most of this post

It's really simple. FO's tank. Players and coaches don't. The Lakers FO set up the tank by trading away Lou Williams and shutting down pretty much all of the vets except Metta who Luke played out of respect. He's a fan favorite and it's been confirmed that he won't be back in a Lakers uniform next season.

That left them to run with the young guys whom they knew would lose a lot of games, but would gain valuable experience/development by playing.

This is where I disagree. The most important thing for young players is playing time. It's truly the only way for them to develop and see what they have. So, the fact is, the players did gain valuable experience that will absolutely help them next year.

Additionally, what Luke has been trying to do all season is develop a winning attitude and culture. You don't do that by asking your players to lose games. The young guys played hard every game and they saw some success at the end of the season. That will also have an effect on next year.

 

[trojanfight]

heres my view on the tanking or not tanking enough this season. i think over the years the lakers have been just a few more losses from landing elite level players. 2 years ago they finished just 5 wins ahead of the timberwolves and ended up 2nd in the lottery. played their cards a little differently that year they end up drafting karl-anthony towns. a top 15 player while deangelo russell a few spots here and there but really may not be top 100. then this year. we shall see how the lotto balls play out. if they get a chance on anyone, trade or not trade all that. the suns gave them every opportunity to take the 2nd spot back. didn't take advantage. in my opinion its a big drop off from first 2 picks. are we going to be looking back 2-3 years from now saying yeah lonzo ball is a great top 20 player on the suns. lakers could have had him but 4 meaningless wins in april took that away.