Kobe vs Jordan vs Lebron age 31

[trojanfan12]

More teams = more parity. While Kobe and LeBron faced the same amount of teams, they played during the "superteam" era when players tried to latch on with other stars to increase their chances of winning. Not as much top-to-bottom competition.

More teams eventually equals parity. However, it doesn't equal parity right away because it takes a few years for the overall talent to catch back up.

I agree about the superteam era for Kobe and Lebron. However, I think it doesn't change much re: what they have faced vs. what MJ faced. MJ was in a watered down league, so while many of the top teams were still really good, there were also a lot of average to below average teams to beat up on.

In the superteam era (which seems to be slowing down some) there was a little tougher competition at the top of league, but still plenty of average and below average teams.

Now, over the past couple of seasons, we are seeing more parity than before because players are looking for places where they can win, but not necessarily looking to form superteams. The result is that there are now really only 3 truly bad teams. Maybe 4 as the Suns seem to gone into the tank with the Bledsoe injury.

 

[DJ Fieri]

And LeBron had some very good role players in Miami. Shooters, defenders, and such.

 

[trojanfan12]

Plenty of bad teams in all eras. I think you are underselling the more recent ones.

What do you consider the start of the "superteam" era? Kobe was several years into his career prior to 2011.

The superteam era is an interesting question. You can make an argument that the Lakers and Celtics of the 80's were the first superteams. You could even throw the 76ers into that category as well. The difference was that those teams were built through the draft and trades rather than players picking where they want to go and teaming up there. But, when you look at the rosters, they were definitely superteams.

 

[RobToxin]

zzzzzzzz

These are getting as old and tired as the Brady-Manning debates.

Crap like this is why I don't like "player fans". Always having to somehow validate that their favorite player was better than some other player from 20 years ago.

Guess what? Jordan is in the Hall of Fame! Kobe will be in the Hall of Fame! LeBron will be in the Hall of Fame!

The rest of it is just "player fan" garbage.

 

[lakersrule]

The superteam era is an interesting question. You can make an argument that the Lakers and Celtics of the 80's were the first superteams. You could even throw the 76ers into that category as well. The difference was that those teams were built through the draft and trades rather than players picking where they want to go and teaming up there. But, when you look at the rosters, they were definitely superteams.

Based on Cane's post, the 2011 Miami Heat were really the first players picking where they want to play superteams. Danny boy put his together through trades.

 

[trojanfan12]

Based on Cane's post, the 2011 Miami Heat were really the first players picking where they want to play superteams. Danny boy put his together through trades.

Yeah, I think it's a question of how you define superteam. Is it just based on the roster with no regard to how the team was put together? Or is it only considered a superteam if players chose go to the same team ala the 2011 Heat?

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

I am not some Lebron defender. I am ambivalent to him.
Sometimes I like him. Sometimes I dont.

But, The thread was designed to make Lebron look bad.

I merely pointed out that Jordan did absolutely nothing prior to Jackson/Pippen....and he did nothing after
Lebron has had some of the shittiest coaches around AND often horrible running mates.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

I don't know about a "decade of championships", but the NBA was considerably more physical before the Pacers-Pistons brawl and all the watered-down rules on flagrant fouls.

Jordan faced greater, more balance competition than Kobe or LeBron.

2 times they won 3 titles in a row... If Jordan didn't leave for baseball I think they would a ran the table for almost the entire 90's ....

 

[WiggyRuss]

say what you want about LeBron- at certain times in his career- no one has done more with less.

 

[lebron23james]

I am not some Lebron defender. I am ambivalent to him.
Sometimes I like him. Sometimes I dont.

But, The thread was designed to make Lebron look bad.

I merely pointed out that Jordan did absolutely nothing prior to Jackson/Pippen....and he did nothing after
Lebron has had some of the shittiest coaches around AND often horrible running mates.

That is how important a good team is

Even Jordan couldn't win a ring prior to having a great team/coach

 

[msgkings322]

That is how important a good team is

Even Jordan couldn't win a ring prior to having a great team/coach

Almost no player no matter how good can win it all without at least one other HOF or close to it kind of player. Jordan had Pippen of course. The only exceptions I can think of offhand are Olajuwon (only HOFer on his championship teams, no the broken down corpse of Drexler doesn't count and in any case that was only 1 of those years) and perhaps Curry (I doubt any of his supporting cast will have a shot at the HOF).

Then you have the 2004 Pistons who had zero HOFers on the team....testament to IMO the best basketball coach ever Larry Brown. I'm saying best overall coach due to his pro AND college resume. Pop is probably 'better' just looking at the pro game.

 

[Pariah]

Who has more finals losses?

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Instead of having a new Lebron slurping thread idea, why not just create one Lebron loving thread and sticky it for the residents that want to continue to worship the man. Wouldn't that make it easier?

 

[True Lakers Fan]

2 times they won 3 titles in a row... If Jordan didn't leave for baseball I think they would a ran the table for almost the entire 90's ....

I agree and instead it would have been 8 straight titles.

 

[lebron23james]

Jordan 1 dad killed

Lebron and Kobe 0

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

I agree and instead it would have been 8 straight titles.

Yeah probably 8 .... realistically I think they would a got it done had he stayed ...

 

[hockey878]

Yeah probably 8 .... realistically I think they would a got it done had he stayed ...

I used to think this. But then you start to realize the physical toll it takes to play that late into june each year. People's bodies would have broken down quicker, player acquisitions wouldn't have been the same, maybe there would've been some bad injury luck.

Maybe if you wanted to look at each season in a vacuum they would have, but I think when you start figuring in all the unintended consequences of extra games you don't know what happens. Maybe they'd have won 4 straight and then MJ would've torn an ACL in the beginning of the 5th year.

Also, in regards to the OP. As the NBA population has become more conscious of analytics, it is important to realize that comparing PPG across eras can be extremely difficult. THe pace (possessions per game) in the 80's was much faster and there was more scoring in general. There is a good chance Kobe and LeBron would have higher PPG on the 80's as well.

Before I get flamed for that, I still think MJ is significantly better than either of them.

 

[hockey878]

NBA League Averages | Basketball-Reference.com

10-12 less possessions per game in the 00's vs the 80's
even the pace in the early/mid 90's was faster than the past 5 years or so.

 

[beardown07]

OP Fail

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

I used to think this. But then you start to realize the physical toll it takes to play that late into june each year. People's bodies would have broken down quicker, player acquisitions wouldn't have been the same, maybe there would've been some bad injury luck.

Maybe if you wanted to look at each season in a vacuum they would have, but I think when you start figuring in all the unintended consequences of extra games you don't know what happens. Maybe they'd have won 4 straight and then MJ would've torn an ACL in the beginning of the 5th year.

Also, in regards to the OP. As the NBA population has become more conscious of analytics, it is important to realize that comparing PPG across eras can be extremely difficult. THe pace (possessions per game) in the 80's was much faster and there was more scoring in general. There is a good chance Kobe and LeBron would have higher PPG on the 80's as well.

Before I get flamed for that, I still think MJ is significantly better than either of them.

Jordan proved to be very tough through in his career though.... He didn't miss many games.. I don't think he missed significant time his entire career other than 1 serious injury early in his rookie or sophomore season in the pro's...