Kobe Is Coming Back For the Money Only

[True Lakers Fan]

It's not a matter of having confidence in their capabilities as it is confidence that, at least Jeanie, will stick to her guns.

As I pointed out on another thread. Jim has said he will step down if this 3 year plan doesn't work. He didn't have to do that, he's an owner of the team. He could simply have done like Jerry Jones with the Cowboys and gone with the 3 year plan and if it didn't work, say "Oh well, back to the drawing board. Here's the new 3 year plan." That tells me that at least he is confident in the plan and is willing to put his position on the line to back it up.

Jeanie has said that she'll hold him to it. Just like Jim, she didn't have to. She could have just stayed quiet or said "I'm not firing my brother, if he wants to step down, that's up to him." Again, she didn't do that.

What I hope it means, along with the way Byron has been showing tough love to the players when needed, is that we are seeing the return of the accountability that ran top to bottom with the Lakers when Dr. Buss was still alive.

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Maybe the 3 year plan will work. Maybe it won't. But at least there seems to be some direction rather than the rudderless ship it appeared to be last season.

The Lakers might get lucky this summer and then again they might not. Yes I have confidence in Jeannie, but only up to a point. Jim Buss no matter what is family and blood is thicker than water. I am saying that it could and most likely will take a few years for them to figure this out. I think they already started the rebuilding process out in a bad way because when Jerry Buss was healthy, I don't think he would have allowed the Lakers to reach this point with only one aging super-star. If their three year plan works as you say, then they have one more year to wait and it will be 2016 before we see the Lakers get back to being contender and what I've been trying to say - is don't expect the Lakers to be contenders in Kobe's final season. Even with some major signings, however it could still take a few years to get to the finals. It's a process that takes time which is something the Lakers fans usually don't like to have. I lik Byron Scott though and while I think George Karl would have been a better coach, preferred Scott because he bleeds purple and gold and is younger and healthier. I kind of got tired of seeing Phil Jackson sit on the bench doing knowing - Got to the point where they were calling him Chief Sitting Bull. I do believe the Lakers will be in the playoffs in 2016 though. They are not going to continue tanking year after year and I'm not even 100% sure that they need to try to tank it now. I think they are really that raw

 

[LALakersboy24.7]

 

[trojanfan12]

The Lakers might get lucky this summer and then again they might not. Yes I have confidence in Jeannie, but only up to a point. Jim Buss no matter what is family and blood is thicker than water. I am saying that it could and most likely will take a few years for them to figure this out. I think they already started the rebuilding process out in a bad way because when Jerry Buss was healthy, I don't think he would have allowed the Lakers to reach this point with only one aging super-star. If their three year plan works as you say, then they have one more year to wait and it will be 2016 before we see the Lakers get back to being contender and what I've been trying to say - is don't expect the Lakers to be contenders in Kobe's final season. Even with some major signings, however it could still take a few years to get to the finals. It's a process that takes time which is something the Lakers fans usually don't like to have. I lik Byron Scott though and while I think George Karl would have been a better coach, preferred Scott because he bleeds purple and gold and is younger and healthier. I kind of got tired of seeing Phil Jackson sit on the bench doing knowing - Got to the point where they were calling him Chief Sitting Bull. I do believe the Lakers will be in the playoffs in 2016 though. They are not going to continue tanking year after year and I'm not even 100% sure that they need to try to tank it now. I think they are really that raw

Couple of things here. It wasn't entirely bad decisions by the Lakers that put them in this current position. They made moves in an attempt to prevent what they are going through right now.

Did you forget that they had a trade for CP3 all set, agreed to and ready to go when David Stern decided to veto it?

Did you forget that they orchestrated a trade for Dwight Howard and Steve Nash that most people thought would put them right back in the finals? You may not have agreed with getting Nash, but you can't deny that you and pretty much everyone else thought the Lakers were back in contention with that trade.

Had either of those deals worked out like they were supposed to, the Lakers wouldn't even be close to this current position. So putting the entire blame for this on the FO is being a bit of a revisionist. Truthfully, the biggest mistake that the Lakers FO made, was keeping D'Antoni when Dwight wanted Phil. However, I'm not even sure that was such a huge mistake. After all, it's not likely that Dwight is getting the Rockets to the finals any time soon.

Last years FA class was pretty weak. The only difference makers in the whole class were Lebron and 'Melo. Lebron respected the Lakers enough to actually meet with Mitch (not every team with cap space got to) and the Lakers emerged as the top threat for 'Melo after all of the idiots on ESPN literally laughed and said the Lakers had "no shot." Beyond those 2, they would have had to overpay for mid-tier guys like Luol Deng who would have improved the team enough to get in 6-8 seed hell. The worst spot in the NBA is the perpetual 6-8 seed. Not enough cap space to add the max level FA that gets them over the top and not bad enough to get a difference maker through the draft.

Also, whether you want to believe it or not and whether you want to claim that Dr. Buss wasn't in his right mind or not (for which there is zero evidence to support) as you've claimed in the past, the fact is that it was Dr. Buss who wanted D'Antoni over Phil in the first place. Dr. Buss wanted Showtime style basketball back and D'Antoni's system was/is the closest thing to that.

 

[trojanfan12]

Btw TLF, I agree with you re: Phil. It's not a popular opinion among Lakers fans, but I believe Phil's time has passed and that it was obvious the season after the last championship.

Heck, in his final season, when everyone knew he was retiring and supposedly wanted to send him out with one last finals run, he couldn't even get them to the WCF. That told me that his time had passed.

His greatest skill was always his ability to get the huge ego's that he dealt with to all play together. By the end, he was no longer able to do that. The players just weren't buying into the "Zen" anymore.

 

[DJ]

Filthy whores all over this thread.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Btw TLF, I agree with you re: Phil. It's not a popular opinion among Lakers fans, but I believe Phil's time has passed and that it was obvious the season after the last championship.

Heck, in his final season, when everyone knew he was retiring and supposedly wanted to send him out with one last finals run, he couldn't even get them to the WCF. That told me that his time had passed.

His greatest skill was always his ability to get the huge ego's that he dealt with to all play together. By the end, he was no longer able to do that. The players just weren't buying into the "Zen" anymore.

I'm not saying that any one thing was the reason alone by the way- I'm just saying that it is not that simple. Just like you I heard both Jim and Jeannie say Jim would resign if he couldn't do it, but Jim and Jeannie in my opinion has been running the show for awhile now. Take it from some one who has a 90 year old mother in poor health. Dr Jerry Buss was most like not a major contributor to many of those decisions even though they won't admit it. When some one's health goes down - they normally don't function like they used to. Jeannie and Jim say they will hold each other accountable, but this is their team now - they own it via an irrevocable trust and regardless of who they hire to run the business, all decisions will go through Jeannie and Jim no matter what. That's how a family owned business operates and that's how every business operates. I'm just saying that these two are necessarily going to step aside merely because the fan base thinks they should. They are going to apply their own standard of success and then spin it if necessary.

The good news is that things will get better and the Lakers will eventually build better teams and win championships. It just might take more time then what most fans expect. A new ownership and new management means the newbies have to learn. It's never the same when you're making all of the decisions in comparison to asking a genius like Dr Buss what he thinks. They are really in a difficult situation and the real point I'm making is that in 2016 or 2017 if things are still a few years away - everyone will need to cut them some slack. Right now everyone is okay, but wait a few years and be prepared for anything - hopefully the anything brings a pot of gold

 

[trojanfan12]

I'm not saying that any one thing was the reason alone by the way- I'm just saying that it is not that simple. Just like you I heard both Jim and Jeannie say Jim would resign if he couldn't do it, but Jim and Jeannie in my opinion has been running the show for awhile now. Take it from some one who has a 90 year old mother in poor health. Dr Jerry Buss was most like not a major contributor to many of those decisions even though they won't admit it. When some one's health goes down - they normally don't function like they used to. Jeannie and Jim say they will hold each other accountable, but this is their team now - they own it via an irrevocable trust and regardless of who they hire to run the business, all decisions will go through Jeannie and Jim no matter what. That's how a family owned business operates and that's how every business operates. I'm just saying that these two are necessarily going to step aside merely because the fan base thinks they should. They are going to apply their own standard of success and then spin it if necessary.

The good news is that things will get better and the Lakers will eventually build better teams and win championships. It just might take more time then what most fans expect. A new ownership and new management means the newbies have to learn. It's never the same when you're making all of the decisions in comparison to asking a genius like Dr Buss what he thinks. They are really in a difficult situation and the real point I'm making is that in 2016 or 2017 if things are still a few years away - everyone will need to cut them some slack. Right now everyone is okay, but wait a few years and be prepared for anything - hopefully the anything brings a pot of gold

Actually, everything doesn't go through Jim and Jeanie. At least not as equal partners. Dr. Buss has things set up so that Jim is in charge of basketball operations and Jeanie is in charge of the business side of the Lakers. However, Dr. Buss also gave Jeanie final decision making power and set it up so that she can fire Jim or anyone else in the organization.

Obviously, she can't take away his share of ownership, but she can remove him from running basketball operations and hire someone else if she see's fit to do so. That is why when she says she will hold him to what he said about the 3 year plan holds weight.

And spare me your lectures on how businesses run. I'm well aware of how businesses run. It's funny how you say everyone needs to cut them slack, yet you've been one of the main one's on here bitching and complaining about things.

Are you sure it's your mother who's 90?

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Not bitching - just saying that it's not automatic in that three year plan and I still don't believe Jeannie will hold him accountable if it fails. I think things will be better though and enough that they will be able to justify Jim staying in charge. It would be really tough for them to do a super fail with as many smart people there are in the organization.

 

[trojanfan12]

Not bitching - just saying that it's not automatic in that three year plan and I still don't believe Jeannie will hold him accountable if it fails. I think things will be better though and enough that they will be able to justify Jim staying in charge. It would be really tough for them to do a super fail with as many smart people there are in the organization.

Not true, you've been bitching about the FO for the past 2-3 years.

Of course there's no guarantee that ANY plan of ANY length will work. When Jerry West came up with the plan to get Shaq and Kobe, there was no guarantee that it would work. In fact, if memory serves, he was actually surprised himself that it worked.

The CP3 trade was a solid plan that didn't work because Stern didn't allow it to happen. The trade for Dwight was a solid plan that most thought would make the Lakers finalists again. Because of injury and Dwight's attitude, it blew up. Neither of those are on the FO.

You can't look at a plan of any kind and be guaranteed that it will work. You can only look at it and see if it seems to be a solid plan that has a good chance of working. The current 3 year plan seems to be just that, a solid plan that has a good chance of working.

What evidence do you have to not believe that Jeanie won't hold Jim to his word? Considering that Jim went public with stating he'd step down and Jeanie said publicly that she'd hold him to it, do you think the media and Lakers fans will forget that? If it doesn't work, he doesn't step down and she doesn't hold him to it, don't you think that Lakers fans and the media will blow up all over her and the franchise? Lakers fans have shown in the past that they will voice their displeasure by not spending the money to go to the games.

I think that even if Jeanie didn't hold him to it right away, she'd eventually have to. Fan and media pressure combined with a half full (at best) Staples Center would force her hand.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Constructive Criticism - ahem

 

[trojanfan12]

Constructive Criticism - ahem

Touche'

 

[HammerDown]

 

[Fiero425]

[MEDIA=twitter]567715209960099841[/MEDIA]

When have any of these players done more than do their own thing, absorb the adoration, and end up losing games in the end? These players don't care about winning or they would have left for better and more fruitful opportunities! This is about ego; esp. for Kobe and Carmelo or they would have made concessions and I can't see it happening with either player! There was an opening on the Bulls, but neither would want to play 2nd fiddle to Derrick Rose! :rollseyes: They'll both go out losers in the end!

 

[LALakersboy24.7]

When have any of these players done more than do their own thing, absorb the adoration, and end up losing games in the end? These players don't care about winning or they would have left for better and more fruitful opportunities! This is about ego; esp. for Kobe and Carmelo or they would have made concessions and I can't see it happening with either player! There was an opening on the Bulls, but neither would want to play 2nd fiddle to Derrick Rose! :rollseyes: They'll both go out losers in the end!

Yea I'm pretty sure Kobe doesn't care about winning.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

They'll both go out losers in the end!

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Joe Johnson is the only one that is still playing - I suppose I should go look and see if he's on the dl list yet before I say that.