Keeper - standard, keep 4

[TKOSpikes]

I don't get it. Will any other owner have their 1st round pick? Is it out of the question you can get McCoy and Dez or Marshall (or equivalent)?

again, why vereen, i would not keep a bench player!!!

10 team or not, milk (I understand and mostly follow your reasoning), getting Vereen 10 rounds later than he'll go is a steal. He played 8 games last year and had 5 or more catches in five games. He will turn into the new Wes Welker for Brady under a whole season, and will also pick up a handful of carries (maybe more) a game. He is a great flex option or RB 2, and again, 10 team or not you need a strong bench and waivers can quickly disappear when you need someone most.

just sayin, my scenario gives him his first 7 picks (how many others in the draft can say that? won't he have a round all to himself? again, maybe I'm missing something. I understand how good Shady is, but he can probably only go down from last year... he was this good (projected) pre 2012 too, and that didn't turn out as well.

haha (just making ya work for it Monkey!)

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I don't get it. Will any other owner have their 1st round pick? Is it out of the question you can get McCoy and Dez or Marshall (or equivalent)?



10 team or not, milk (I understand and mostly follow your reasoning), getting Vereen 10 rounds later than he'll go is a steal. He played 8 games last year and had 5 or more catches in five games. He will turn into the new Wes Welker for Brady under a whole season, and will also pick up a handful of carries (maybe more) a game. He is a great flex option or RB 2, and again, 10 team or not you need a strong bench and waivers can quickly disappear when you need someone most.

just sayin, my scenario gives him his first 7 picks (how many others in the draft can say that? won't he have a round all to himself? again, maybe I'm missing something. I understand how good Shady is, but he can probably only go down from last year... he was this good (projected) pre 2012 too, and that didn't turn out as well.

haha (just making ya work for it Monkey!)

I dont disagree that vereen is great value, but if you are also keeping Benard, Bell and mccoy, then Vereen will stay on bench... With a limited amount of keepers isnt it silly to keep a bench player... Your pretty much going into the season hoping for an injury!!! even if he doesnt keep McCoy, as you suggest, he would still be getting a top RB with the first few rounds... so in all aspects vereen is not needed... He would just be wasted value...

This may just be my rule, but i would never keep a bench player with a limited amount of keepers!!!

 

[TKOSpikes]

even if he doesnt keep McCoy, as you suggest, he would still be getting a top RB with the first few rounds... so in all aspects vereen is not needed... He would just be wasted value...

why? target Dez, Marshall, Gronk, QB, Keenan Allen, Mike Floyd

...all this is moot, since he's keeping Shady, but hey, it's fun right milk!

 

[MilkSpiller22]

why? target Dez, Marshall, Gronk, QB, Keenan Allen, Mike Floyd

...all this is moot, since he's keeping Shady, but hey, it's fun right milk!

I really wish i was in a league that allowed me to put this much preseason thought into it!!! so monkey, I am playing vicariously through you!!!


he really has to keep McCoy... I know why that sounds weird, but he has no clue where he drafts, and he has no clue how many owners will have their first round pick... There is a huge difference in the first round between the top picks and the later round picks and chances are everyone with a player who should be a top pick will keep that player, and some may have multiple players... Like how monkey has bell and benard, who both sometimes make the first round in a 12 league team...

If he knows where he drafts before he sets his keeper list maybe it will be wise not to keep McCoy, but the risk not to get him is too big, especially since the chances are that the player he will get will be much worse...

and once you keep McCoy, and both Benard and Bell are better value than Vereen, then how can you ever keep vereen?? Again, if you know he will be a bench player isnt it more valuable to keep someone you will actually start??

 

[TKOSpikes]

How is Gio in the 8th better value than Vereen in the 16th?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

How is Gio in the 8th better value than Vereen in the 16th?

This is not a PPR league, so that takes away a big piece of vereen's game...

He is ranked at around the 20th best RB on draft day... Which means he is at best a low end #2 RB, high end Flex...

Benard is ranked as a top 15 RB, Which makes him a high end #2 low end #1(seen him as high as 9th)...

I have seen Vereen go as high as the 4th round, but that is in a 12 team league, a 10 team league, I would be surprised to see him drafted before the 5th round. And likely be drafted in the 6th or 7th round in a 10 team league...

Benard, does not go past the 3rd round in any draft, and he sometimes reaches the first round..

Lets just say for argument sake, Benard should be drafted in the 2nd round, and Vereen in the 5th round...

That would be a 6 round difference for Benard and an 11 round difference for vereen(assuming he keeps both Bell and Cobb) If no Cobb or bell then it is the 15th or 14th round!!!

But Because Benard is more valuable to a starting roster, his value is weighed heavier...

Think about it this way, He can not keep 4 RBs, that would be silly!!! that means he would have to drop one of McCoy, Bell, Benard or vereen... Monkey is definitely keeping McCoy, and Bell is the best value keeper he has on his team!!!

That would mean he would have to decide between Vereen and Benard on who to drop(not keep).

With starting 1QB, 2RB,2WR, 1 Flex, 1TE- that is 7 position players...

With benard in the 8 round and Bell in the 14th, he has 2 top end starters before even talking about the first 7 rounds... He can make the best Starting roster possible... and he will make a better starting roster with Benard than vereen...

so unless you like vereen more than Benard, Benard has much more value, since your starting roster will be better with him...

I hope that made sense...

 

[SmokingMonkey]

How is Gio in the 8th better value than Vereen in the 16th?

Biggest thing for me there is that I like the chances I have of getting Vereen back at a good value in this league.
Since it is not PPR, people sleep a bit on the receiving RBs. Sproles finally got some love last year, only to get injured and miss games, which was ironic.

As to the 'Which Draft pick will you have?' question, I'm BANKING on at least 2 people picking in the first round, before it even gets to me. 1 guy I know for sure is blowing up his squad and will probably have his at least 3 of his top 4 picks this year. Another guy only has Rodgers taking up one of his top 4 picks.

I pick 10 out of 10, and I will find out in a month ( a week before we draft) who the keepers are and how many people will be picking ahead of me.

I'll post the other teams if I get bored/have some down time this week

 

[TKOSpikes]

I'm not arguing Bernard's talent, but you can't convince me that he is 8 rounds better than Vereen. And Shady's 2012 tells me keeping value is better than paying for last year.

Let's take Joique Bell for example. 160 carries and 50 catches last year for 150 points. Maybe Vereen has 100 carries (7/game), but you can up his catches to at least 80 (5/game). Doesn't matter that it's not PPR, 80 catches will get you points.

Gio had 170 carries last year and 50 catches for pretty much the same amount of points. And L. Bell had 240 carries and almost the same amount of catches for pretty much the same total points.

We are splitting hairs here. The difference will be who scores more TD and that is unpredictable.

And I just think Shady is more 2012 Shady this year with no DJax and an added Sproles. 300 carries for 1600 yards again? I doubt it. I still think he is awesome, but I really think the Eagles take a big step back from last year's trendy offensive outburst. NFL teams are pretty good at defending the new trend the next season... i.e. wildcat, QB option...


Nothing wrong with
QB
Gio
Bell
Dez (1st)
Marshall (2nd)
TE (maybe you get Gronk in the 3rd?)
Vereen

and still open rounds 4, 5, 6, and two 7's for depth. And we all know depth can be turned into greatness...
.

 

[TKOSpikes]

And let's not forget Bell and Gio are sophomores...sure they could get better, but they could also Doug Martin it.

 

[TKOSpikes]

Whoops. Forgot to put Cobb in that lineup.

Anyway my point remains.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I'm not arguing Bernard's talent, but you can't convince me that he is 8 rounds better than Vereen. And Shady's 2012 tells me keeping value is better than paying for last year.

Let's take Joique Bell for example. 160 carries and 50 catches last year for 150 points. Maybe Vereen has 100 carries (7/game), but you can up his catches to at least 80 (5/game). Doesn't matter that it's not PPR, 80 catches will get you points.

Gio had 170 carries last year and 50 catches for pretty much the same amount of points. And L. Bell had 240 carries and almost the same amount of catches for pretty much the same total points.

We are splitting hairs here. The difference will be who scores more TD and that is unpredictable.

And I just think Shady is more 2012 Shady this year with no DJax and an added Sproles. 300 carries for 1600 yards again? I doubt it. I still think he is awesome, but I really think the Eagles take a big step back from last year's trendy offensive outburst. NFL teams are pretty good at defending the new trend the next season... i.e. wildcat, QB option...


Nothing wrong with
QB
Gio
Bell
Dez (1st)
Marshall (2nd)
TE (maybe you get Gronk in the 3rd?)
Vereen

and still open rounds 4, 5, 6, and two 7's for depth. And we all know depth can be turned into greatness...
.

and you think that is a better starting roster than

QB
McCoy(1)
Bell(14)
WR1
WR2
Gronk(5)
Benard(8)
??? I say no way your starting roster is better than the one with benard and McCOy
there are 7 position players, and he would still have picks in round(2,3,4,6,7)

the key in a keeper league, is to make your starting lineup as strong as possible, and that will help you have a strong bench... But in a 10 team league, a strong bench is a little over-rated, since it is so shallow and so easy to find free agents, and even late round picks that should start in a normal league...

 

[TKOSpikes]

If WR 1 and 2 are not both top 10, then yes I do.

 

[TREFF]

I'm not sure how I missed out on this conversation, but I'm glad I did. Enjoying the banter though!

 

[TKOSpikes]

ahh come on Treff! jump in, the water is warm!

 

[TKOSpikes]

the key in a keeper league, is to make your starting lineup as strong as possible

If that's the case I would say McCoy, Dez, Marshall and Gronk. If the object is to start with the best, then that's a pretty good foursome and there are lots of similar RB's in the pool to dig from and you don't even need to bother with back up WR/TE/QB for about five rounds.

I love Gio Bernard, he is a keeper in my only keeper league, but he is not that much better than Le'Veon and/or Vereen that I would keep him in the 8th over the others in 15th/16th. And in keeper leagues with rules like this, you have to take advantage.

The biggest reason for getting Bell, Cobb and Vereen in the positions he has them now, is for maximizing value. There is 0 % chance of those three losing draft value (and they are actually gaining double digit round value). Gio in the 8th is almost just as amazing...sure Gronk in the 5th is awesome too, but we all know that cookie crumbles the easiest out of all the cookies in the cupboard.

McCoy, as awesome as he is, can easily lose draft value (ask 2012 owners).

But in a 10 team league, a strong bench is a little over-rated, since it is so shallow and so easy to find free agents,

May be true in September, but it thins out pretty quickly with injuries and smart owners... you are looking at the 10-team thing too lightly.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

If that's the case I would say McCoy, Dez, Marshall and Gronk. If the object is to start with the best, then that's a pretty good foursome and there are lots of similar RB's in the pool to dig from and you don't even need to bother with back up WR/TE/QB for about five rounds.

I love Gio Bernard, he is a keeper in my only keeper league, but he is not that much better than Le'Veon and/or Vereen that I would keep him in the 8th over the others in 15th/16th. And in keeper leagues with rules like this, you have to take advantage.

The biggest reason for getting Bell, Cobb and Vereen in the positions he has them now, is for maximizing value. There is 0 % chance of those three losing draft value (and they are actually gaining double digit round value). Gio in the 8th is almost just as amazing...sure Gronk in the 5th is awesome too, but we all know that cookie crumbles the easiest out of all the cookies in the cupboard.

McCoy, as awesome as he is, can easily lose draft value (ask 2012 owners).



May be true in September, but it thins out pretty quickly with injuries and smart owners... you are looking at the 10-team thing too lightly.

Agreed... I am not saying not to have a deep bench, I just think on draft day, having a stronger Starting roster is more important...


And especially for my keepers, I don't set my keepers up thinking about depth and my bench... I only think about my Starting Roster... And in a limited amount of keepers, I would try as hard as possible not to keep a bench player... And right now for monkey vereen is a bench player(unless he does not keep McCoy)... But I don't recommend him not to keep McCoy, and he also does not want to not keep him!!!

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I'm not sure how I missed out on this conversation, but I'm glad I did. Enjoying the banter though!

Treff, get in the debate...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

As for keeping McCoy, Bryant, Marshall and Gronk... I will admit that I gave that a deep thought... Almost recommended that to him... But just cant pass on Benard and or Bell, who both are ranked just as high as Bryant and marshall in most ADP... And with a 2nd round pick it is likely that he will get one of those WRs anyway...


so he is much better off not keeping either WR... And when I say better off, I mean to make the best starting Roster possible...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

If WR 1 and 2 are not both top 10, then yes I do.

Why does both have to be top 10 if you can get one top 10 WR, and 3 top 12 RB... Again, this is not PPR...

 

[TKOSpikes]

And right now for monkey vereen is a bench player(unless he does not keep McCoy)... But I don't recommend him not to keep McCoy, and he also does not want to not keep him!!!

which is my whole point, so I guess I should just shut up since that's not changing...


I don't know, ever since I lost in 2010 with AP and CJ2K as my backs, I've turned to WR and journeyman RB's... and have done better.