Keep it all in perspective

[WizardHawk]

Seattle entered the super bowl with 19 players on IR. Pretty sure that's way more than last year. Include letting Harvin go and that's 20 players not on your roster.

So they had quite a few backups and guys off the practice squad on the sideline that game.

Now we learn that Sherman, Thomas, and Chancellor all need surgeries so we know that 3/4 of the starting secondary was playing hurt the entire game (and it showed).

Despite losing Lane on that interception run back (really, just hit the damned ground after that pick) the team went out to a 10 point lead by the end of the 3rd quarter.

Now you lose Avril to a concussion early in the first drive the Pats had in the 4th quarter. That put the death nail in that defense. They had nothing left after that. No pass rush pressure left a HOF caliber QB to carve up that injured secondary.

All of that and yet if Kearse doesn't drop a TD pass to him they are up 31-14 in the 4th and the game is on ice. One missed catch from glory.

Still, they gave up the lead and moved the ball down the field and an incredibly lucky, but not unusual for Kearse, catch and they are right in the mix to win.

You have all of those problems and several missed opportunities and you are still right where you want to be to end the game.

Frustrating? Sure, of course, but understand how great that game was given what they had to work with. You had Lockette and Mathews out there at receiver because of how depleted you were. Yet Mathews, that hadn't had a catch all year, ends up one play away from possibly being the MVP of the game. That's coaching. Carroll and Bevell had an outstanding game plan that worked to a T. They threw things at NE they couldn't stop and weren't ready for knowing that Baldwin and Kearse were going to be covered well all day.

People are calling for Bevell to be fired, need to get major help at WR, and a variety of other fixes for something that isn't broken.

You will get most of your injured players back next year. Richardson might not be there early season and who knows how long for Lane, but Mebain and the other key pieces should be good to go.

Your team nearly won the SB despite all those injuries and all those issues and will get all of those players back to make them even stronger than that team that nearly got the trophy.

There is no need to go crazy and fire people or do major changes in players outside of dealing with FA losses. This is still the most talented team in the league and as young as most of them are, they haven't come close to hitting their full potential yet.

 

[tzorn10]

That's coaching. Carroll and Bevell had an outstanding game plan that worked to a T. They threw things at NE they couldn't stop and weren't ready for knowing that Baldwin and Kearse were going to be covered well all day.

Yeah, zero points in the 4th quarter and a play call that cost a team a super bowl victory. Great job guys.

 

[WizardHawk]

Yeah, zero points in the 4th quarter and a play call that cost a team a super bowl victory. Great job guys.

For you there was no season leading up to the play. Doesn't matter what anyone did, JUST that play. Be as bitter as you like, but I'll look at the whole story and the bigger picture and ready for next years great run to Levi Stadium.

 

[tzorn10]

That one play is the one that mattered and they failed. Its also embarrassing how Belichick bluffed Carroll and old Pete had no clue what to do. That and 'The Call' was just horrible coaching when it mattered most. One of these times there isn't going to be a next year and that's the shame of pissing a super bowl away like that.


Just horrible

 

[WizardHawk]

Keep your bullshit on one of the many threads already run over with them. Leave this one and any other attempting to start being positive alone. I've had quite enough of your bitching and moaning.

 

[tzorn10]

Your right. One last parting note though, I must say that any season your team doesn't win the super bowl is a failure (isn't that the point). Being the last loser is still being a loser.


Keep celebrating that super bowl loss and peace.

 

[tnerb57]

Well. That de-escalated quickly.

 

[poewelch84]

Seattle entered the super bowl with 19 players on IR. Pretty sure that's way more than last year. Include letting Harvin go and that's 20 players not on your roster.

So they had quite a few backups and guys off the practice squad on the sideline that game.

Now we learn that Sherman, Thomas, and Chancellor all need surgeries so we know that 3/4 of the starting secondary was playing hurt the entire game (and it showed).

Despite losing Lane on that interception run back (really, just hit the damned ground after that pick) the team went out to a 10 point lead by the end of the 3rd quarter.

Now you lose Avril to a concussion early in the first drive the Pats had in the 4th quarter. That put the death nail in that defense. They had nothing left after that. No pass rush pressure left a HOF caliber QB to carve up that injured secondary.

All of that and yet if Kearse doesn't drop a TD pass to him they are up 31-14 in the 4th and the game is on ice. One missed catch from glory.

Still, they gave up the lead and moved the ball down the field and an incredibly lucky, but not unusual for Kearse, catch and they are right in the mix to win.

You have all of those problems and several missed opportunities and you are still right where you want to be to end the game.

Frustrating? Sure, of course, but understand how great that game was given what they had to work with. You had Lockette and Mathews out there at receiver because of how depleted you were. Yet Mathews, that hadn't had a catch all year, ends up one play away from possibly being the MVP of the game. That's coaching. Carroll and Bevell had an outstanding game plan that worked to a T. They threw things at NE they couldn't stop and weren't ready for knowing that Baldwin and Kearse were going to be covered well all day.

People are calling for Bevell to be fired, need to get major help at WR, and a variety of other fixes for something that isn't broken.

You will get most of your injured players back next year. Richardson might not be there early season and who knows how long for Lane, but Mebain and the other key pieces should be good to go.

Your team nearly won the SB despite all those injuries and all those issues and will get all of those players back to make them even stronger than that team that nearly got the trophy.

There is no need to go crazy and fire people or do major changes in players outside of dealing with FA losses. This is still the most talented team in the league and as young as most of them are, they haven't come close to hitting their full potential yet.

Injuries catch up to you, I watched it with the 9ers this year, all you can do is hope they are healthy next year and the next time they get back to that stage.

 

[Podunkparte]

Those people talking about upgrading WR.... Did they happen to watch the MVP of the Seahawks on Sunday?

Chris Matthews needs to be on this roster next year.

 

[dude82]

I put tzorn on my ignore list months ago and now the only time I see his crap is when someone quotes him. He's not going to go away on his own, so that's really your best option if you're tired of reading his crap.

Anyway... as far as Bevell goes, it's not like this is the first time since he's been here that he's taken heat for his playcalling, so there is precedent for it. For example, when he falls in love with a play (often a bubble screen or some other quick hitter) that, more often than not, either goes for a small gain, no gain or a loss, he's drawn the ire of the people on this board for being too stubborn. I also vividly remember people demanding he be fired during the first half of the 2012 season when our offense seemed to be stuck in neutral more often than not. To his credit, he eventually implemented the zone-read look more consistently and the offense finished that season lighting up the scoreboard, but for the first 9 games or so of that season, a call for Bevell's job seemed like a weekly occurrence. I think we finished in the top 5 in scoring that year, but it took a huge scoring push in the final 5 or 6 weeks of the season to make it happen.

Even if you want to attribute the last call to Carroll, the offense still went 3-and-out a couple times in the 4th quarter when they had a chance to put the game away. I can't imagine Carroll had a whole lot of input into what to call during those drives. I get that at least some of that was a failure to execute, but it was also a failure to adjust to Belichick's adjustments. Since Bevell's the OC, it's on him to make those adjustments. Plus, it seems like most devastating losses like this result in someone getting fired and it's usually a coordinator, unless the head coach did something to fall out of favor with the front office or his players. So, combine the history of dislike/hate for Bevell's playcalling skills, the idea that coordinators/play callers almost always take the fall for these types of losses, with Bevell being the only coordinator left to take it out on and that's why you saw so many people jump on Bevell Sunday night for that last play call.

 

[WizardHawk]

Your right. One last parting note though, I must say that any season your team doesn't win the super bowl is a failure (isn't that the point). Being the last loser is still being a loser.


Keep celebrating that super bowl loss and peace.

You really shouldn't follow sports then. If winning the championship is the only thing that can satisfy you as a fan, you are seldom going to ever be happy in any sport. What a sad and pathetic person you are.

I hope you are under 22, because you come off like just a young kid that doesn't know any better and if that's true, you will likely grow out of it when you grow up.

The SB win is the goal for every team. And to come so close and come up one play short stings. It's a sting that will linger for a long time. It doesn't have to define your life though, nor does it have to be the only story of your teams season. I'm sorry if my still having fond memories of the season bothers you (not really), but that last play doesn't take any of that away.

The pain may be worse with this ending, but I'm a lot more upbeat than if we would have played like Denver last year. How can you not have optimism about next season knowing you had all of those injuries and all of those issues and still came that close to winning it all? You had gaffs and blunders and injuries and it still almost didn't matter. It's not like you had played your best game mistake free and still came up short. Then you know you have major work to do. This wasn't that.

Sure it sucks to lose and no one is happy about it, but adults who have been around sports long enough and have tasted defeat enough put it in context and look forward to the next battle. M's are about to hit spring training, It's LOI day for college football, the draft is coming up, etc. This loss won't eat away and I won't use it as an excuse to mope around and have my real life impacted by it.

 

[WizardHawk]

I put tzorn on my ignore list months ago and now the only time I see his crap is when someone quotes him. He's not going to go away on his own, so that's really your best option if you're tired of reading his crap.

Anyway... as far as Bevell goes, it's not like this is the first time since he's been here that he's taken heat for his playcalling, so there is precedent for it. For example, when he falls in love with a play (often a bubble screen or some other quick hitter) that, more often than not, either goes for a small gain, no gain or a loss, he's drawn the ire of the people on this board for being too stubborn. I also vividly remember people demanding he be fired during the first half of the 2012 season when our offense seemed to be stuck in neutral more often than not. To his credit, he eventually implemented the zone-read look more consistently and the offense finished that season lighting up the scoreboard, but for the first 9 games or so of that season, a call for Bevell's job seemed like a weekly occurrence. I think we finished in the top 5 in scoring that year, but it took a huge scoring push in the final 5 or 6 weeks of the season to make it happen.

Even if you want to attribute the last call to Carroll, the offense still went 3-and-out a couple times in the 4th quarter when they had a chance to put the game away. I can't imagine Carroll had a whole lot of input into what to call during those drives. I get that at least some of that was a failure to execute, but it was also a failure to adjust to Belichick's adjustments. Since Bevell's the OC, it's on him to make those adjustments. Plus, it seems like most devastating losses like this result in someone getting fired and it's usually a coordinator, unless the head coach did something to fall out of favor with the front office or his players. So, combine the history of dislike/hate for Bevell's playcalling skills, the idea that coordinators/play callers almost always take the fall for these types of losses, with Bevell being the only coordinator left to take it out on and that's why you saw so many people jump on Bevell Sunday night for that last play call.

I can't really put people on ignore on the hawks board when I'm a mod. Doesn't really work like that.

On the radio this morning Mitch was saying they were told the team sent their package out and it was Carroll that saw the defense and said call a pass to Bevell when he saw it. No idea if that is real or not, but it makes sense if Carroll was going to have input on the offensive side it would be to react to what the defense was doing. Now that would still leave the type of pass in Bevell's lap, but it still puts it on Carroll for not feeding the beast.

As for Bevell's history, I'd like some feedback on resent weeks. The screen thing he was doing earlier was a Harvin thing and we all hated it. Now that we know what an asshole he was it makes a lot more sense. He was reportedly saying he wasn't going to take high risk passing routes. So how do you use a speedy guy that refuses to run full routes? It was bad, but not sure I can blame him as much now knowing Percy's BS as I did at the time. But how was he after Harvin left? I didn't have issues with the play calling the rest of the year really. Look, he's not perfect and I can pick on specific plays here and there, but you don't make it this far with a shitty OC. You just don't. Maybe he isn't #1 in the league, but he's not 10th or worse certainly. I'm just not looking to shake the tree up when that tree has taken us to back to back SB's. That's as dumb as firing Harbaugh off a team with several straight NFCCG appearances or better. You just don't dick around with things when they are working.

 

[tzorn10]

I guess i'm too passionate (2005 eats at me still), but I cant just go the 'Gee Wally, if our coaches weren't such idiots, we would be hoisting the trophy right now, but gosh darnnit, even though they were clueless, they deserve a pat on the back for ripping the souls out of every fan out there'.


Yeah, I cant do it.

 

[SonnyCID]

Stfu tzorn. Keep it real, you enjoy these moments more than winning. Bitches live to bitch.

 

[trojanfan12]

Your right. One last parting note though, I must say that any season your team doesn't win the super bowl is a failure (isn't that the point). Being the last loser is still being a loser.


Keep celebrating that super bowl loss and peace.

I agree with you up to a point. I agree that any time your team doesn't win a championship, in any sport, the season is ultimately a failure. After all, that is the goal for every team at the start of every season. However, that doesn't mean there aren't positives to take away from the season.

First of all, there are what? 29 other teams that would have given anything to have the season that the Seahawks just had?

2nd, the team seemed to be suffering from a "super bowl hangover" and 6 games in, it was looking like they may not make the playoffs, let alone get back to the Super Bowl. They got over their hangover, turned things around and ended up right back in the Super Bowl.

3rd, given the injuries, etc. that Wiz mentioned, for them to even be in position to win the game at the end was pretty impressive.

Was the season ultimately a failure? Yes, as you and I both agree, any season that doesn't end in a championship is a failure.

However, there are plenty of positives to take away from this past season and lots of reasons to be optimistic about the future.

In the end, would you rather have the season that the Seahawks had or the season that the Browns had?

 

[SonnyCID]

I love my team just as much as I did when I was a kid and they weren't winning a single thing. Sunday hurts, but it doesn't change the way I feel. This group has a ton of character, win or lose last week, I would still expect great football going forward.

 

[BHF]

On the radio this morning Mitch was saying they were told the team sent their package out and it was Carroll that saw the defense and said call a pass to Bevell when he saw it. No idea if that is real or not, but it makes sense if Carroll was going to have input on the offensive side it would be to react to what the defense was doing. Now that would still leave the type of pass in Bevell's lap, but it still puts it on Carroll for not feeding the beast.

Huh. That sounds familiar.

As for Bevell's history, I'd like some feedback on resent weeks. The screen thing he was doing earlier was a Harvin thing and we all hated it. Now that we know what an asshole he was it makes a lot more sense. He was reportedly saying he wasn't going to take high risk passing routes. So how do you use a speedy guy that refuses to run full routes? It was bad, but not sure I can blame him as much now knowing Percy's BS as I did at the time. But how was he after Harvin left? I didn't have issues with the play calling the rest of the year really. Look, he's not perfect and I can pick on specific plays here and there, but you don't make it this far with a shitty OC. You just don't. Maybe he isn't #1 in the league, but he's not 10th or worse certainly. I'm just not looking to shake the tree up when that tree has taken us to back to back SB's. That's as dumb as firing Harbaugh off a team with several straight NFCCG appearances or better. You just don't dick around with things when they are working.

There was definitely confusion after we ditched Harvin. For better or worse going into this season he was clearly going to be the focus of the passing game. When that didn't work out, we had to scrap all the off season work and build a new play book on the fly. Give the man his due for making that work. That's a job well done.

He's not a top 10 OC. But neither is he bottom 10. For every great game plan he puts together (and he does put together some impressive ones), he puts together a pretty fucking boneheaded one, too. And that's not just an analysis of this year, but his four years here and his time back in Minnesota as well. If Quinn wasn't jumping ship already you maybe, MAYBE have the conversation about replacing him. Maybe. But that's a long shot. He's developed Wilson, and we're a team with a defensive focus anyway. What we've been doing has won us 41 games, two NFC titles, and a SB in the last three years. Don't rock that boat.

And you absolutely, positively do not replace both coordinators on a SB team in the same off season and remain championship contenders. You just don't.

 

[dude82]

I can't really put people on ignore on the hawks board when I'm a mod. Doesn't really work like that.

On the radio this morning Mitch was saying they were told the team sent their package out and it was Carroll that saw the defense and said call a pass to Bevell when he saw it. No idea if that is real or not, but it makes sense if Carroll was going to have input on the offensive side it would be to react to what the defense was doing. Now that would still leave the type of pass in Bevell's lap, but it still puts it on Carroll for not feeding the beast.

As for Bevell's history, I'd like some feedback on resent weeks. The screen thing he was doing earlier was a Harvin thing and we all hated it. Now that we know what an asshole he was it makes a lot more sense. He was reportedly saying he wasn't going to take high risk passing routes. So how do you use a speedy guy that refuses to run full routes? It was bad, but not sure I can blame him as much now knowing Percy's BS as I did at the time. But how was he after Harvin left? I didn't have issues with the play calling the rest of the year really. Look, he's not perfect and I can pick on specific plays here and there, but you don't make it this far with a shitty OC. You just don't. Maybe he isn't #1 in the league, but he's not 10th or worse certainly. I'm just not looking to shake the tree up when that tree has taken us to back to back SB's. That's as dumb as firing Harbaugh off a team with several straight NFCCG appearances or better. You just don't dick around with things when they are working.

Like I said, there's been criticism of Bevell's playcalling since at least 2012 and while I agree that it's difficult to fire the guy when the stats say that he's been doing a good job overall, there always seems to be a fall guy when things like this happen and given that history of criticism, he was the most likely person to be that guy, for the fans at least. Carroll may decide that he doesn't want to make any more changes to a coaching staff that has taken the team to two consecutive Super Bowls than he has to after Quinn's departure, and he may use the fact that the Hawks have finished pretty high in a lot of offensive categories to justify keeping Bevell on board. I just wanted to give some general examples that might help explain why so many people went after Bevell as the main fall guy for this game.

I will also say that it can't be a good sign when you have players openly questioning the call after the game. It'll be interesting to see how Carroll handles that, especially if those players also Bevell and Carroll decides to keep him on-staff. Was it just a series of emotional outbursts after a hard fought game that ended badly or will it be an issue going forward? That'll be Carroll's off-season challenge this year. Last year, his challenge was trying to keep everyone together and focused after a successful season that resulted in players getting richer and more famous than they've ever been, which can cause egos to get out of control and cause jealousy among those who feel like they should also be getting that money and fame, but aren't for whatever reason.

Anyway, I agree with pretty much everything in your original post. It's pretty remarkable that they came as close as they did to repeating under the circumstances. Hopefully most, if not all, of the injured players from this year are able to come back fully healthy before the season starts or sometime early in the season and that we don't end up with quite so many players on IR or so many players so badly banged up at the end of the year that they'd be on IR if it wasn't the time of year when players say "Screw it! I'm playing and I'll worry about this after the season." I think that was ultimately the biggest difference between last year and this year. Last year we still had a ton of injuries throughout the roster over the course of the year, but the team absorbed that barrage of injuries and seemed to be getting healthier as the regular season ended and they went through the playoffs. This year, the injuries kept coming throughout the end of the regular season and into the playoffs to some of the best players on the team or to guys that were just starting to find their groove as new additions to the starting lineup. Realistically, there will be a few guys who won't be able to come back until after next season starts, but hopefully it's just a few.

 

[WizardHawk]

Huh. That sounds familiar.

There was definitely confusion after we ditched Harvin. For better or worse going into this season he was clearly going to be the focus of the passing game. When that didn't work out, we had to scrap all the off season work and build a new play book on the fly. Give the man his due for making that work. That's a job well done.

He's not a top 10 OC. But neither is he bottom 10. For every great game plan he puts together (and he does put together some impressive ones), he puts together a pretty fucking boneheaded one, too. And that's not just an analysis of this year, but his four years here and his time back in Minnesota as well. If Quinn wasn't jumping ship already you maybe, MAYBE have the conversation about replacing him. Maybe. But that's a long shot. He's developed Wilson, and we're a team with a defensive focus anyway. What we've been doing has won us 41 games, two NFC titles, and a SB in the last three years. Don't rock that boat.

And you absolutely, positively do not replace both coordinators on a SB team in the same off season and remain championship contenders. You just don't.

Finally we have some common ground. I don't think you dump Bevell and it would really be a lot to add to the plate given Quinn is gone.

I am in favor of saying goodbye to Cable though. Tired of the same failed Oline year after year. Britt might end up being ok, but a lot of his other picks just aren't and probably won't be good. Or at least stable in the case of Okung.

All I've been saying since the game is spread the blame around to everyone that came up short. It wasn't just Bevell. Calling that TO after Kearse's catch was bad IMO. Not going to your power set if you were going to change personnel was bad. How about just keeping the same guys out there you had on 1st down and running the same damned play? The defense was on their heels. Just run a quick play. But then would we be kicking them for not running more clock down if Brady again leads them to a TD with all those TO's they still had?

It's not like I'm actually celebrating the loss like one person is saying. They came up short of their goal. No one can deny that. I would say I'm not entirely in agreement with TF12 on it though. The team's job is to win it all in that regard they failed, but it shouldn't be from a fans perspective. Our 'job' is to enjoy the entertainment. It's supposed to be that isn't it? Were we entertained this year? Did we get FAR more entertainment and enjoyment than say Saints fans? Did losing this game entirely nullify the joy you got for the prior 4 months? Did it change the outcome of the NFCCG? For many of you it appears the answer to those is yes, but for me it doesn't take those away. The shock of losing that game leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth, but we had so much fun on this journey and have a LOT to look forward to next year. I'm just going to keep it all in perspective. That's how I roll.

 

[WizardHawk]

This just hasn't been said enough though. I keep hearing on the radio "Just run the same play and you win the game" or similar stuff. I'm not sure how anyone comes to the conclusion it's a guarantee that a different call is a game winner. We know Lynch hasn't been solid in goal line situations this season as it is. And if they did score quickly the Pats have 2 TO's and time with a HOF QB to come back and answer.

I fully agree I'd rather have seen what a run or two would have done and would be living with the loss much easier knowing we at least lost with our strength, but it's no forgone conclusion the game ends in a win for Seattle just because they call a different play in that situation.