Just want to see what you guys think of this

[calsnowskier]

Jeff George
Alex Smith
Ryan Leaf
JaMarcus Russell
Tim Couch
David Carr
Matt Leinart
Vince Young

These guys all agree that the franchise QB coming out of the draft is WAY more important than an established, MVP-level MLB.

Make the trade!!

 

[clyde_carbon]

Jeff George
Alex Smith
Ryan Leaf
JaMarcus Russell
Tim Couch
David Carr
Matt Leinart
Vince Young

These guys all agree that the franchise QB coming out of the draft is WAY more important than an established, MVP-level MLB.

Make the trade!!

What a stupid argument.

 

[calsnowskier]

What a stupid argument.

What a stupid rebuttal.

 

[MHSL82]

That's a better question, and I think I'd take Bradford.

They wouldn't trade Bradford to us anyway. As overrated as he was and struggling he is, there still is some belief in him and I doubt they would trade him to a rival with a qb guru in a non-lockout season. No excuse for that backfire (not the Bradford-Luck backfire, the 49ers-Anyone else backfire). But hypothetically, for his age maybe, depending on Alex and Kaep. If Bradford doesn't make the expected jump, Alex is better and so may Kaep be. But I don't know if we'd see whether he leveled off between now and the draft - he did change OC's and had the lockout, oline problems so I'm sure he's fine.

 

[imac_21]

Jeff George
Alex Smith
Ryan Leaf
JaMarcus Russell
Tim Couch
David Carr
Matt Leinart
Vince Young

These guys all agree that the franchise QB coming out of the draft is WAY more important than an established, MVP-level MLB.

Make the trade!!

Alright, you didn't like Clyde's rebuttal. So I'll give it a try.

Here's a list of franchise QBs from the last 30 years (use your imagination, you know who they are).

Here's a list of franchise ILBs (as above).

Which is more valuable and harder to replace?

To add to that, why does Aaron Rodgers talk to Steve Young? What brought them together? How does that relationship demonstrate the importance of getting a great QB?

Also, how many of your QB busts were considered as "can't-miss" as Andrew Luck?

By my count, you have listed zero. Really, no one on your list comes close.

 

[calsnowskier]

Alright, you didn't like Clyde's rebuttal. So I'll give it a try.

Here's a list of franchise QBs from the last 30 years (use your imagination, you know who they are).

Here's a list of franchise ILBs (as above).

Which is more valuable and harder to replace?

To add to that, why does Aaron Rodgers talk to Steve Young? What brought them together? How does that relationship demonstrate the importance of getting a great QB?

Also, how many of your QB busts were considered as "can't-miss" as Andrew Luck?

By my count, you have listed zero. Really, no one on your list comes close.

Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to get Luck. But to give up Ray Lewis / L.T. For a guy who is looking amazing in college is foolish.

If there was NO question that Luck = Montana/Brady/Manning/Marino etc, than OK. But that requires a time machine, and mine is in the shop, so I can't use it right now.

As far as can't miss guys, George and Leaf were pretty close to that. Maybe they were not getting the same talk as Luck, but to be fair, has ANYONE ever had this kind of talk? This is the age of 24 hour news so everything gets blown out of proportion. Until he is in the NFL, you just don't know.

 

[imac_21]

Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to get Luck. But to give up Ray Lewis / L.T. For a guy who is looking amazing in college is foolish.

If there was NO question that Luck = Montana/Brady/Manning/Marino etc, than OK. But that requires a time machine, and mine is in the shop, so I can't use it right now.

As far as can't miss guys, George and Leaf were pretty close to that. Maybe they were not getting the same talk as Luck, but to be fair, has ANYONE ever had this kind of talk? This is the age of 24 hour news so everything gets blown out of proportion. Until he is in the NFL, you just don't know.

As you said, this is the age of 24 hour news. Players are more under the microscope than ever before. Would Ryan Leaf's attitude have been better known? After all, it was his attitude that caused him to fail more than anything else. Is there talk of that attitude with Luck?

George might as well have been in the draft in the 40s for how far technology and news-reporting has come. The scouting reports and film study that will be available on Luck far surpasses anything that existed when George was a prospect. And when Leaf was for that matter.

But if we had the opportunity to get Luck, and it was going to cost us Willis, I would do it.

What's the most you would be willing to give up for Luck? Players and/or picks.

 

[calsnowskier]

Further, let's take a look at the ELITE qbs of the last 30 years or so...

Brady - 6th round
Manning - #1 overall
Favre - 2nd rd, 33 overall
Montana - 3rd rd
Elway - #1 overall
Marino - #27 overall

The "experts" obviously had it wrong out if the gate for most of these guys. These guys would all be #1 overall in hindsight, but only 2 of them were in reality.

I will keep my defensive HOF QB and let my QB guru HC do something with my former #1 overall QB and his heir apparent, tyvm.

 

[imac_21]

Further, let's take a look at the ELITE qbs of the last 30 years or so...

Brady - 6th round
Manning - #1 overall
Favre - 2nd rd, 33 overall
Montana - 3rd rd
Elway - #1 overall
Marino - #27 overall

The "experts" obviously had it wrong out if the gate for most of these guys. These guys would all be #1 overall in hindsight, but only 2 of them were in reality.

I will keep my defensive HOF QB and let my QB guru HC do something with my former #1 overall QB and his heir apparent, tyvm.

Can we look at where the elite ILBs were taken? Is Willis that irreplaceable? Hell, there are some that feel Bowman is outplaying him right now.

What would it take for you to trade Willis? What would a team have to offer you?

 

[calsnowskier]

Can we look at where the elite ILBs were taken? Is Willis that irreplaceable? Hell, there are some that feel Bowman is outplaying him right now.

What would it take for you to trade Willis? What would a team have to offer you?

It doesn't matter where elite MLBs are drafted. We are not talking about a potential elite MLB. We are talking about an ESTABLISHED elite MLB.

I would trade him in a second for Rogers or Brees. They are known quantities. I would not trade him for Luck. He is a question mark.

 

[imac_21]

It doesn't matter where elite MLBs are drafted. We are not talking about a potential elite MLB. We are talking about an ESTABLISHED elite MLB.

I would trade him in a second for Rogers or Brees. They are known quantities. I would not trade him for Luck. He is a question mark.

If we were to trade him, I assume we would also attempt to replace him. That's why it matters where elite MLBs are drafted. You also have to consider the relative importance of the positions. No one, presumably, will ever argue that a MLB is of equal value to a QB. So how valuable is it, relatively speaking?

I didn't ask if you would trade him for Luck. I asked what you would take for Patrick Willis. If someone offered you a first and second, would you do it? What if they offered two first round picks?

Also, do you think a team would give that up?

If we didn't have Willis, what would you be willing to give up for an elite ILB? If you were GB, what would you trade for Willis? Would you trade for Willis?

 

[wartyOne]

That said, I would cry like a baby seeing P-Will go....

Many a tear were shed when the Niners traded Montana, but it was the right move. The Niners may not find a LB as good as Pwillie in another decade, but if they invest a little in draft picks(s) and / or money they could easily get a reallly good ILB. The same is absolutely not true about QBs. Getting a franchise QB is pure luck (pun intended). If you get one past round 1 you beat tremendous odds. If there's a great one everyone knows is great you have to be lucky enough to pick high enough to get him. If there's a chance to nab one you think will be great & you don't have a good / great QB you do it. JMHO.

I wanted the Niners to trade for Jay Cutler. I'd still love to have himb in SF. But if there's even a small a chance to get Luck even better.

No it wasn't. If Montana doesn't get traded, SF has three more Lombardi's.

 

[tallglassofwater007]

haaa, this is just a scenario that'll never happen, but i'm getting caught up in it. sorry!

anyways, one last post...........we need a franchise QB sooner or later, obviously sooner is better than later.

are you suggesting we pass on Luck and look for another prospect? someone who HAS question marks like Barkley or Landry? someone else with much less guarantee?

its goes beyond a player versus a player argument, the TEAM is much better off with a franchise QB. whats to say Luck doesn't make the HOF?

Deep.... I'm not saying pass on Luck... if there was a chance to get him I would go for him. I would love it if he were a Niner. I agree that if you get that right QB you are a contender pretty much every year. But to trade Willis for a guy who may or may not be that QB is not something I would be jumping at the chance to do. (Although he probably will be that guy)


tzil... I don't see how my logic is all over. I'm saying that for every great college athlete that succeeds in the pros, there are probably 10 who fail. College success doesn't guarantee pro success is all I am trying to say.

 

[clyde_carbon]

I might have to rethink this thread since I just met Willis!

 

[bdave]

My question though with all the past NFL busts, did they have football sense or were they just good at throwing the ball? Luck has a very unreal ability to know where everyone is on the field and read defenses. Even though he doesn't get sacked much he can feel when it's time to run or throw the ball away. He seriously plays an NFL style in college. There's no doubt in my mind that if he gets on the right team in the NFL he's going to take off.

To be honest I would definitely not give up Patrick Willis for Luck without Harbaugh as coach but looking at how well Harbaugh develops QB's he already knows exactly what it will take for Andrew Luck to succeed. And that's the part of me that says go for it.

 

[mem49er]

I might have to rethink this thread since I just met Willis!

Are you Fo' Reals??!!! I assume you were there for an interview or did you get the gig? Seriously, that would be AWESOME though I would be hella' jealous. I demand proofs! I will not be satisfied for any less than a phone pic and game worn jerseys Fed Ex'd to me!!

 

[MW49ers5]

My question though with all the past NFL busts, did they have football sense or were they just good at throwing the ball? Luck has a very unreal ability to know where everyone is on the field and read defenses. Even though he doesn't get sacked much he can feel when it's time to run or throw the ball away. He seriously plays an NFL style in college. There's no doubt in my mind that if he gets on the right team in the NFL he's going to take off.

To be honest I would definitely not give up Patrick Willis for Luck without Harbaugh as coach but looking at how well Harbaugh develops QB's he already knows exactly what it will take for Andrew Luck to succeed. And that's the part of me that says go for it.

If you are being considered as the #1 overall DP then it is believed you possess most of the intangibles; which, I am sure Luck does - at the college level. Whether those skills will transition to the NFL is a guess at best.

Right now we appear to have the Joe Montana & Steve Young of ILB's and arguably the best front seven in the NFL and I can't see splitting that up for a prospect.

 

[calsnowskier]

If we were to trade him, I assume we would also attempt to replace him. That's why it matters where elite MLBs are drafted. You also have to consider the relative importance of the positions. No one, presumably, will ever argue that a MLB is of equal value to a QB. So how valuable is it, relatively speaking?

I didn't ask if you would trade him for Luck. I asked what you would take for Patrick Willis. If someone offered you a first and second, would you do it? What if they offered two first round picks?

Also, do you think a team would give that up?

If we didn't have Willis, what would you be willing to give up for an elite ILB? If you were GB, what would you trade for Willis? Would you trade for Willis?

The Niner, right now, are a competitive team. Why trade one of your core players for picks at all?

If Detroit wants to give us Suh PLUS a couple high picks, MAYBE. But we all know that ain't happening.

It is not like the Niners are in desperation mode and we need to retool the entire team. We are in good shape and we do not need to blow anything up.

 

[deep9er]

Deep.... I'm not saying pass on Luck... if there was a chance to get him I would go for him. I would love it if he were a Niner. I agree that if you get that right QB you are a contender pretty much every year. But to trade Willis for a guy who may or may not be that QB is not something I would be jumping at the chance to do. (Although he probably will be that guy)


tzil... I don't see how my logic is all over. I'm saying that for every great college athlete that succeeds in the pros, there are probably 10 who fail. College success doesn't guarantee pro success is all I am trying to say.

if you're not passing on Luck, then you'd trade Willis. by keeping Willis, you're passing on Luck.

this is the scenario presented....trade Willis for #1 (ie Luck).

 

[tzill]

Jeff George
Alex Smith
Ryan Leaf
JaMarcus Russell
Tim Couch
David Carr
Matt Leinart
Vince Young

These guys all agree that the franchise QB coming out of the draft is WAY more important than an established, MVP-level MLB.

Make the trade!!

Not one of those guys was as widely regarded as Luck is. Not one.

Alex wasn't a consensus first pick, there were many who thought Edwards or Rogers or even Pacman should have gone first in a pretty weak overall draft
Leaf wasn't even drafted first.
Russell wasn't a consensus first pick; most had Megatron rated higher.
Couch wasn't a consensus first pick; many said "throw a blanket" over Couch/McNabb/Smith/James/Williams.
Carr -- same thing in 2002 -- Carr/Peppers/Harrington/Williams was a crapshoot.
Leinart was drafted tenth b/c of his weak arm.
Young was drafted third b/c of his Wonderlic score.

None of these guys are truly comparable to Luck. Barring injury, he's the consensus #1 pick and is generally considered "can't miss." The last QB that was true of is probably Elway in 83...that's 29 years between drafts. In those 29 years, a QB was taken #1 15 times. Of those 15, the only argument you could really make for "can't miss lock first overall pick" is MAYBE Aikman in 89. But even then, he was neck and neck with Mandarich and Sanders because he had broken his ankle at OU and transferred to UCLA. A lot of people thought Mandarich would be the best OL ever.

11 - Newton -- questions about his adaptability to the pro offense
10 -- Bradford -- Suh regarded as a better pick by many
09 - Stafford -- many thought Sanchez better
07 - Russell -- many thought Megatron better
05 - Smith -- Edwards/Rogers thought better
04 - Eli -- trade to NY/Rivers considered as good
03 - Palmer -- Rogers/Johnson considered as good
02 - Carr -- trick offense, Harrington and Peppers considered as good
01 - Vick -- not projected as a QB, SD traded the pick
99 - Couch -- McNabb/Smith thought as good
98 - Peyton -- Leaf/Woodson considered as good
93 - Bledsoe -- Mirer as good
90 - George -- ATL gave up the pick
89 - Aikman -- Mandarich/Sanders, ankle & transfer concerns
87 - Vinny -- Product of a system, choked in nat champ
83 - Elway.

I don't think folks appreciate the historical context Luck is in.

He's REALLY that good.