Just How Bad is the Niner Offense

[Pattersonca65]

What's worse though is that both Randle and Beckham were out with hamstring injuries on the drive, or at least 90% of it and the Niners still could not stop them.
As for Kaepernick I'm not sure whether to be pleased with last night's performance or worry that one pretty good result will only delay the inevitable.

I agree with the first part. Inexcusable for the defense. As far as Kap goes, I would look to draft a QB this coming draft and groom him. The only other alternative this year is Gabbert and I just don't see Gabbert as a long-term solution anyway regardless of whether Kap or Gabbert plays the rest of the season.

 

[Pattersonca65]

yes, certainly agree the odds favored us preventing a TD. this situation is where the completions alone doesn't hurt, but the RAC's do (especially Vereen's). We couldn't make immediate tackles with so many guys back there?! I also wonder if we shouldn't have taken out Bowman beginning of that last stand?

didn't think the penalty on Acker was a good call?

Did you see the Giants olineman blatantly holding Reaser on Vareen's big play?

 

[Montalban]

yes, certainly agree the odds favored us preventing a TD. this situation is where the completions alone doesn't hurt, but the RAC's do (especially Vereen's). We couldn't make immediate tackles with so many guys back there?! I also wonder if we shouldn't have taken out Bowman beginning of that last stand?

didn't think the penalty on Acker was a good call?

Why? Bowman is solid back there. As for Acker, perhaps it should have been holding instead of PI; is that what you meant? Because clearly it was a foul

 

[Montalban]

Did you see the Giants olineman blatantly holding Reaser on Vareen's big play?

It always seems the refs are reluctant to call fouls on the home team at the end of the game. I think they get caught up in the excitement of the moment just like the fans do in a game-winning drive.

 

[deep9er]

We saw how bad they were Sunday night with a 4 point lead and 82 yards of field to defend for only 1:41. The failed miserably. This is what bad teams do though.

BTW - 1:41 with two timeouts, you should be able to move down most of the field. The hard part is the red zone and even in this case, that completion to Donnell wasn't easy. That route is difficult to throw and Bowman wasn't in too bad a position.

 

[deep9er]

Why? Bowman is solid back there. As for Acker, perhaps it should have been holding instead of PI; is that what you meant? Because clearly it was a foul

Bowman is fine in general, but note i said at the start of that "1:41 left in the game" situation. So at the start of their last drive, the odds of them running were LOW. A CB on Vereen is better than Bowman, cause a CB is more used to covering a pass route. IMO what hurt wasn't the short completions by itself, but the RAC's.

If the Giants had gotten close enough to the goal where they might run, then you'd put Bowman back in. Even at the end of that drive, don't think they got close enough?

 

[Pattersonca65]

Why? Bowman is solid back there. As for Acker, perhaps it should have been holding instead of PI; is that what you meant? Because clearly it was a foul

I think that is what he meant. It looked like the same play where it may have been Torrey Smith who was mugged. They called it holding and just yards instead of PI

 

[Montalban]

Bowman is fine in general, but note i said at the start of that "1:41 left in the game" situation. So at the start of their last drive, the odds of them running were LOW. A CB on Vereen is better than Bowman, cause a CB is more used to covering a pass route. IMO what hurt wasn't the short completions by itself, but the RAC's.

If the Giants had gotten close enough to the goal where they might run, then you'd put Bowman back in. Even at the end of that drive, don't think they got close enough?

Fair enough. I don't think Bowman has ever come out on passing downs though. he was one of the better defenders against the pass.

 

[Montalban]

I think that is what he meant. It looked like the same play where it may have been Torrey Smith who was mugged. They called it holding and just yards instead of PI

Yeah, it often does seem kind of arbitrary, doesn't it.

 

[Robotech]

Bowman will probably never get back to what he was. He was pretty good on coverage pre-injury. I hope you guys still remember this, as it feels like ancient history now, but back when were were good, Bowman essentially supplanted Willis on the depth chart because the Niners would take out Willis on passing down and keep Bowman in there.

 

[Montalban]

BTW - 1:41 with two timeouts, you should be able to move down most of the field. The hard part is the red zone and even in this case, that completion to Donnell wasn't easy. That route is difficult to throw and Bowman wasn't in too bad a position.

We disagree. You know exactly what they had to do. You should not cover 82 yards in 1:41 with your top three receivers out of the game; just shouldn't happen. I agree that it does happen with the better teams like The patriots, Packers and such.

 

[deep9er]

We disagree. You know exactly what they had to do. You should not cover 82 yards in 1:41 with your top three receivers out of the game; just shouldn't happen. I agree that it does happen with the better teams like The patriots, Packers and such.

we?

just because you know what they had to do, doesn't mean you will stop them? Good team or bad, your defense goes to protect mode, so all the underneath stuff is available. Vereen is as fast as the WR's, and gained extra yards.

Even if their top WR's were out, the D has to play them straight up. If the 3rd string WR goes deep, a CB and safety still has to defend it.

BTW - what was the longest pass completion during that drive? Pass in the air that is, not the short pass turned long RAC.

 

[Kinzu]

I think that is what he meant. It looked like the same play where it may have been Torrey Smith who was mugged. They called it holding and just yards instead of PI

The Smith one was PI. He was 15 yards down the field with the ball in the air. The PI called on us the hold came within the first 5 yards as the WR tried to get into his route. How one was holding and the other PI makes 0 sense based on the rules.

 

[deep9er]

Here is the play by play, all short passes to Vereen. Protecting against the deep ball was correct, so this leaves the underneath open. So next you should consider a DB on Vereen too, to reduce RAC's.

1. New York Giants at 01:45
2. 5-B.Pinion kicks 71 yards from SF 35 to NYG -6. 34-S.Vereen to NYG 18 for 24 yards (49-B.Miller).
3. 1-10-NYG 18(1:41) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning scrambles right tackle to NYG 29 for 11 yards (26-T.Brock).
4. 1-10-NYG 29(1:19) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass short left to 34-S.Vereen to NYG 40 for 11 yards (29-J.Tartt).
5. Timeout #1 by NYG at 01:11.
6. 1-10-NYG 40(1:11) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass incomplete deep right to 19-M.White.
7. 2-10-NYG 40(1:06) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass short middle to 34-S.Vereen to SF 44 for 16 yards (29-J.Tartt) [59-A.Lynch].
8. Timeout #2 by NYG at 00:50.
9. 1-10-SF 4450) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass deep middle intended for 19-M.White INTERCEPTED by 26-T.Brock [63-T.Jerod-Eddie] at SF 12. 26-T.Brock to SF 13 for 1 yard (19-M.White). The Replay Official reviewed the incomplete pass ruling, and the play was REVERSED. (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass incomplete deep middle to 19-M.White [63-T.Jerod-Eddie].
10. 2-10-SF 4445) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass incomplete short right [59-A.Lynch].
11. 3-10-SF 4440) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass short middle to 34-S.Vereen to SF 20 for 24 yards (41-A.Bethea, 26-T.Brock).
12. Timeout #3 by NYG at 00:30.
13. 1-10-SF 2030) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass incomplete short left to 13-O.Beckham Jr. [91-A.Armstead]. PENALTY on SF-20-K.Acker, Defensive Pass Interference, 8 yards, enforced at SF 20 - No Play.
14. 1-10-SF 1226) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass short middle to 84-L.Donnell for 12 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

 

[purguy12]

We should change this Thread to how bad is our Defense. Offense is ranked better then the D.

Offense is ranked 25th and D is ranked 31st.

 

[Montalban]

we?

just because you know what they had to do, doesn't mean you will stop them? Good team or bad, your defense goes to protect mode, so all the underneath stuff is available. Vereen is as fast as the WR's, and gained extra yards.

Even if their top WR's were out, the D has to play them straight up. If the 3rd string WR goes deep, a CB and safety still has to defend it.

BTW - what was the longest pass completion during that drive? Pass in the air that is, not the short pass turned long RAC.

Yes, "we"; you and I is "we". And since you and I disagree on this I say "we disagree". Don't understand your heart burn with this.
As for the last part of your statement, you can rationalize the defense's failure Sunday night all you want but the truth is (in my opinion) that any defense should be able to defend 82 yards of field with 1:41 on the clock with the top three receivers from the offensive team missing.

 

[Montalban]

We should change this Thread to how bad is our Defense. Offense is ranked better then the D.

Offense is ranked 25th and D is ranked 31st.

Must have been a long ride home for you Sunday night. What a disgrace, huh? At least our boy played fairly well though. He could have even been mistaken for an NFL QB that night.

 

[Montalban]

we?

just because you know what they had to do, doesn't mean you will stop them? Good team or bad, your defense goes to protect mode, so all the underneath stuff is available. Vereen is as fast as the WR's, and gained extra yards.

Even if their top WR's were out, the D has to play them straight up. If the 3rd string WR goes deep, a CB and safety still has to defend it.

BTW - what was the longest pass completion during that drive? Pass in the air that is, not the short pass turned long RAC.

What possible relevance can that have? Doesn't matter how you get the yards, just that you get them.

 

[Pattersonca65]

1.41 and three time outs is enough time to move the ball down the field. But if your defense plays well it should not have happened. The 49ers made it too easy on NY all game long and especially on that long drive.

 

[Robotech]

We should change this Thread to how bad is our Defense. Offense is ranked better then the D.

Offense is ranked 25th and D is ranked 31st.

Wow, I didn't realize that, but you're right except that our offense is ranked 29th. Nevertheless, they are still ranked higher than our 31st ranked defense. Mangini needs to resign. He is getting outcoached by Geep Chryst of all people!!!