Jose Abreu is the best young hitter in the game

[pumpkinhead33793]

Lol at "on par"

How is it that Ichiro improved substantially? He arrived on the scene in his prime. Then he stayed there for a decade. (Career high in doubles, stolen bases, second best OPS and Slugging, most runs, etc.)

Abreu could definitely have better seasons than 2014. He could get help in the order around him. Bumping his RBI and Runs. Not out of the question to assume his OBP will improve. Maybe even get a decent bump in homers. But substantial improvements are most likely not happening.

It'll be interesting to see how long he can sustain this level. Because he's definitely performing at a very high level, offensively.

It's pretty much a certain that Abreu will be even better last year. Do you have any idea what his numbers are after his first 2 months. I think he is hitting close to 350.

 

[DragonfromTO]

It is what you are saying because if you are in your prime, you can't get better because that would then be your prime.

And you all keep comparing him to the average hitter which is not fair because the average hitter does not start in the big leagues at age 27.

It's like you didn't even read what I wrote. Or maybe you just didn't understand it.

 

[pumpkinhead33793]

But those pitchers on the other hand are certain to gain absolutely no advantage from becoming more acclimated with him.

Sure, the star pitchers on his level.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Again, you have to factor in experience. In baseball, a players prime as far as their physical ability goes well past 27. You can't possibly tell me that someone that is in their first year at 27 will not approve based on experience at age 28, 29, 30 when they become more acclimated to pitchers.

There are two Cubans in the majors who started in their mid 20s and haven't gotten any better after their first full years:

Cespedes and Morales

 

[DragonfromTO]

It's pretty much a certain that Abreu will be even better last year. Do you have any idea what his numbers are after his first 2 months. I think he is hitting close to 350.

Do you really think you've made enough of an argument to call that "pretty much a certain(sic)"?

 

[mr.hockey4242]

It's pretty much a certain that Abreu will be even better last year. Do you have any idea what his numbers are after his first 2 months. I think he is hitting close to 350.

What the shit? What makes that certain that he gets better?

Hell aren't you arguing right now that hes on par with Trout who is actually having his worst season yet?

As you were shown, Ichiro had his best year as a rookie. Still a very good player but that was the absolute peak.

There is no way to say for certainty things get better.

Couldn't we just as easily point to his RBI and Power dropage over the last 3 weeks and relatively poor walk numbers to say that this is the best his RBI and OBP will ever get?

 

[pumpkinhead33793]

It's like you didn't even read what I wrote. Or maybe you just didn't understand it.

It's what you are implying when you all say "prime".

I agree if you solely mean physical maturity. I disagree wen you factor in experience and the mental side of it.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Cespedes says hi

Hahaha I was thinking to myself that there were tons of valid counter-examples throughout history but it never even occurred to me that Cespedes (while his career is far from finished) is looking like a pretty good one right now.

 

[pumpkinhead33793]

What the shit? What makes that certain that he gets better?

Hell aren't you arguing right now that hes on par with Trout who is actually having his worst season yet?

As you were shown, Ichiro had his best year as a rookie. Still a very good player but that was the absolute peak.

There is no way to say for certainty things get better.

Couldn't we just as easily point to his RBI and Power dropage over the last 3 weeks and relatively poor walk numbers to say that this is the best his RBI and OBP will ever get?

And how the fuck do you know that a Trout will get better??? After all he has only played 3 years and his last one was his worst. Who is to say that pitchers have bit figured him out better and his extra weight has made him worse? There is no guarantee that he will be better next year than this year just like there is no guarantee that Abreu will. Do you agree on that?

 

[StanMarsh51]

Hahaha I was thinking to myself that there were tons of valid counter-examples throughout history but it never even occurred to me that Cespedes (while his career is far from finished) is looking like a pretty good one right now.

Yep...Kendrys Morales is another one (Cuban also) who had his first full season at age 26 and hasn't been anywhere near as good since.

 

[broncosmitty]

It's pretty much a certain that Abreu will be even better last year. Do you have any idea what his numbers are after his first 2 months. I think he is hitting close to 350.

He has been very impressive this year. Nobody will say he's not.

But there are other impressive hitters. Who are younger. Like Stanton and Trout for example.

Do you think Michael Brantley is pretty much certain to be better next year?

 

[mr.hockey4242]

And how the fuck do you know that a Trout will get better??? After all he has only played 3 years and his last one was his worst. Who is to say that pitchers have bit figured him out better and his extra weight has made him worse? There is no guarantee that he will be better next year than this year just like there is no guarantee that Abreu will. Do you agree on that?

That is exactly my point we don't know. But you are comparing Abreu to Trout and calling him a young hitter. When Trout is young. He is over 4 years younger to be exact.

Trout is actually having his worst season so far and is still going to win an MVP. He has finished in top 2 all 3 years. That is why you are being foolish.

Trout still has another 4 years to actually reach his peak years.

Everything is assumption based. But it is much easier to assume a 23 year old 3 time All Star and MVP improves INTO his prime then a 27 year old who has hit the beginning of his prime.

Abreu is only a safe assumption for 3 more seasons. Trout has at least 8 before you can reasonably expect a big decline.

 

[navamind]

And how the fuck do you know that a Trout will get better??? After all he has only played 3 years and his last one was his worst. Who is to say that pitchers have bit figured him out better and his extra weight has made him worse? There is no guarantee that he will be better next year than this year just like there is no guarantee that Abreu will. Do you agree on that?

And how the fuck do you know that a Abreu will get better???

 

[pumpkinhead33793]

Well now we are talking future years performance. Guess we will have to wait till next year. As far as THIS YEAR, Abreu had a better statistical year in most categories than Trout. You can't argue the stats.

 

[navamind]

It is what you are saying because if you are in your prime, you can't get better because that would then be your prime.

And you all keep comparing him to the average hitter which is not fair because the average hitter does not start in the big leagues at age 27.

And how many players become everyday players at the age of 20?

 

[pumpkinhead33793]

And how the fuck do you know that a Abreu will get better???

I don't. But Trout did have a worse year this year than last year.

 

[pumpkinhead33793]

And how many players become everyday players at the age of 20?

Andruw Jones did it. How much did he improve from 23 to 27?

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Andruw Jones did it. How much did he improve from 23 to 27?

Did Andruw Jones do what Trout did from 20-23?

 

[navamind]

Andruw Jones did it. How much did he improve from 23 to 27?

But it's "guaranteed" that a 27-year-old will improve in his next season?

Jones' top four years (OPS+ wise) came in his age 23-29 seasons.

 

[DragonfromTO]

It's what you are implying when you all say "prime".

I agree if you solely mean physical maturity. I disagree wen you factor in experience and the mental side of it.

And you are still sort of missing the point. When I say "prime" I am not talking specifically about Abreu. No one (including you) will know precisely when his "prime" was until his career is finished (or at least well on the downside). All we can do until then is make a best guess based on what we know about how players develop.

So now that you've seemingly acknowledged that he will probably physically decline from here on out, why specifically do you think that what he gains with experience will exceed what he loses from that physical decline? It certainly might, but history seems to strongly suggest that it won't... the cost of experience is youth, and it tends to end up being a bad transaction. So what do you think is so different about him?