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Jets win could hurt Bengals

Cincyfan78

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That was quite a coaching job tonight by your savior.
Not a savior - but we all know too well that just because someone is a great Coordinator doesn't make them a great Head Coach. I think Zimmer is a great DC. I think he's average as a coach - and they hitched their wagon to Kirk Cousins. That was a massive misstep, IMO. The effect that has had on the cap, and the team, can't be overstated. It was a poor move.

I'd take him here as a DC in a heartbeat. Even if he's not as good as his first go around, he's got to be better than Vic. So, it's an upgrade one way or the other.
 

cincygrad

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I think someone brought it up here.... When you are a defensive-minded head coach, you generally have to turn your offense over to a guy that will either succeed and then get hired to be his own HC or you will hire a guy that isn't very good. Zimmer has been plagued by both as a HC.... He's had guys running his offense that have sort of sucked and not gotten as much production out of the talent and then he has had guys that were good and moved on. And as Cincy said, the organization fucked up their entire cap by paying Kirk Cousins like he is Aron Rogers. I don't think Zimmer's D now sucks because he has lost his fastball, I think he's just lost too much talent over the years.
 

futballiscool

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Justin Fields and Zach Wilson both playing lights out in their bowl game is great news for the Bengals pick.
 

cincygrad

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Yeah.... I think you now pass on Fields at your own risk. If that guy moves onto the NFL and becomes a star, you will find yourself a 'former GM' for passing on the pick.
 

BKBroiler9000

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If you’re the GM of a QB needy team, I don’t know how you can watch Fields come back from a kidney shot, and drop 385 and 6 TDs on a Clemson defense...and pass on that..
 

futballiscool

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Yeah.... I think you now pass on Fields at your own risk. If that guy moves onto the NFL and becomes a star, you will find yourself a 'former GM' for passing on the pick.

With Mahomes, Herbert and Allen looking like they'll run the AFC for the next ten years I think teams are going to gamble on mobile, strong armed QBs. Even if they're not ready out of the gate the upside is so high if you can develop them. Fields definitely fits that profile.
 

alf8478

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I think someone brought it up here.... When you are a defensive-minded head coach, you generally have to turn your offense over to a guy that will either succeed and then get hired to be his own HC or you will hire a guy that isn't very good. Zimmer has been plagued by both as a HC.... He's had guys running his offense that have sort of sucked and not gotten as much production out of the talent and then he has had guys that were good and moved on. And as Cincy said, the organization fucked up their entire cap by paying Kirk Cousins like he is Aron Rogers. I don't think Zimmer's D now sucks because he has lost his fastball, I think he's just lost too much talent over the years.

Mike Zimmer's offensive coordinators were:

Norv Turner, considered by many as a great OC.
Pat Shurmur, above average as an OC in multiple places, lousy head coach.
John DeFelippo-crap OC.
Kevin Stefanski--good enough OC to get a head coaching job and lead the Browns (of all teams) to the playoffs; and
Gary Kubiak, considered to be a very good to great OC.

The Vikings are aggressive in the draft and sign free agents. I would argue that over the past 3-4 years the Vikings have had a better roster than the bengals. The have better RB, WR, TE. Both lines suck. Both kickers suck. QB was a wash (pre-Burrow), but Cousins' salary makes the bengals a better situation at that position. The have defensive players who actually get sacks.

Aside from a couple of fluky playoff wins against the Saints, which was great, because, FUCK THE SAINTS, he's been pretty average as a coach.

You guys want him back because he's a known name, and he's better than what is here now, but I guess I'm the only one who remembers his defenses gashed in the playoffs by Mark Sanchez, and Philip Rivers and TJ Yates and Shonn Green and Arian Foster running forever on them.
 

cincygrad

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Mike Zimmer's offensive coordinators were:

Norv Turner, considered by many as a great OC.
Pat Shurmur, above average as an OC in multiple places, lousy head coach.
John DeFelippo-crap OC.
Kevin Stefanski--good enough OC to get a head coaching job and lead the Browns (of all teams) to the playoffs; and
Gary Kubiak, considered to be a very good to great OC.

The Vikings are aggressive in the draft and sign free agents. I would argue that over the past 3-4 years the Vikings have had a better roster than the bengals. The have better RB, WR, TE. Both lines suck. Both kickers suck. QB was a wash (pre-Burrow), but Cousins' salary makes the bengals a better situation at that position. The have defensive players who actually get sacks.

Aside from a couple of fluky playoff wins against the Saints, which was great, because, FUCK THE SAINTS, he's been pretty average as a coach.

You guys want him back because he's a known name, and he's better than what is here now, but I guess I'm the only one who remembers his defenses gashed in the playoffs by Mark Sanchez, and Philip Rivers and TJ Yates and Shonn Green and Arian Foster running forever on them.
Average defensie ranking the 8 seasons pre-Zimmer - 22.5
Average defensive ranking the 8 Zimmer seasons - 10
Average defensive ranking the 5 post-Zimmer seasons - 23.5.

The guy isn't the next coming of Bill Belicheck.... And his units had flaws. But his numbers while here were good and the defense wasn't the embarrassment it was before his arrival or after his departure. Can't fault folks for having fond feelings.
 

alf8478

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Average defensie ranking the 8 seasons pre-Zimmer - 22.5
Average defensive ranking the 8 Zimmer seasons - 10
Average defensive ranking the 5 post-Zimmer seasons - 23.5.

The guy isn't the next coming of Bill Belicheck.... And his units had flaws. But his numbers while here were good and the defense wasn't the embarrassment it was before his arrival or after his departure. Can't fault folks for having fond feelings.
I’m sure the roster had nothing to do with the drop off. 8 years is more than most of the prime years for players.
 

cincygrad

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I’m sure the roster had nothing to do with the drop off. 8 years is more than most of the prime years for players.
I imagine that is true.... But the folks picking the roster during Zimmer's day are the same folks picking them now. And heck, I guess Zimmer probably had something to do with a few picks during his era as I'm sure the current coaches do now.
 

alf8478

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I imagine that is true.... But the folks picking the roster during Zimmer's day are the same folks picking them now. And heck, I guess Zimmer probably had something to do with a few picks during his era as I'm sure the current coaches do now.
Fair point. But Marvin was also there drafting/scouting as well as other assistants like Guenther, not that he has done any better since leaving here either, but I believe 2015 under Paul G was their best statistical defensive season.
my whole point is that it’s time for a fresh voice, maybe someone young and creative.
zimmer, while admittedly better than Lou, doesn’t excite me. It reaks of them doing little to no research or interviewing.
 

cincygrad

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Fair point. But Marvin was also there drafting/scouting as well as other assistants like Guenther, not that he has done any better since leaving here either, but I believe 2015 under Paul G was their best statistical defensive season.
my whole point is that it’s time for a fresh voice, maybe someone young and creative.
zimmer, while admittedly better than Lou, doesn’t excite me. It reaks of them doing little to no research or interviewing.
We (and all the national media) has all been down this road with the Bengals before.... Everyone was convinced when Marvin was leaving that the only options Mike Brown would consider were Mike Zimmer (if he would have been available), Hue Jackson, Paul Guenther, or Darrin Simmons. They certainly showed a willingness to try something different - Just not sure they got it right.
 

CrashDavisSports

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We (and all the national media) has all been down this road with the Bengals before.... Everyone was convinced when Marvin was leaving that the only options Mike Brown would consider were Mike Zimmer (if he would have been available), Hue Jackson, Paul Guenther, or Darrin Simmons. They certainly showed a willingness to try something different - Just not sure they got it right.

Well, at least Turner is going to be gone. I wish Anarumo was going to, but if there are no good options out there come free agency who are willing to come here, then I guess you stick with the turd you know. Zimmer is still my choice. I would be okay with an established DCoord, but not sure if we are able to get our hands on one, so we will see.
 
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