Jets agree to trade Revis Island to Buccs for multiple picks...

[Dodub]

Man, you & I just disagree about everything under the sun don't we? Freeman, Bradford, Revis...

Freeman is an anchor to that franchise IMO (not in a good way). I'd happily let him walk.

How exactly is he the anchor? They had one of the worse defenses in the league last year; 29th in team defense and 32nd in passing defense. Unless Freeman can defend the pass then there is no chance that he is holding this team back.

Freeman was 9th in the NFL in yards and 7th in the NFL for passing TD's, he was pretty average in terms of ints and % but certainly not to the point where one could assume that he is the thing holding the team back. I would love to find out how he is the problem with this franchise.

Again they would be incredibly dumb to let him walk, the guy has his best football in front of him. I believe they are doing the right thing in shoring up the defensive backfield.

 

[BUCCS469]

This is specious reasoning. Look at the 15th pick:

Bruce Irvin
Mike Pouncey
Jason Pierre-Paul
Brian Cushing
Branden Albert
Lawrence Timmons
Tye Hill

The 15th pick has done better than the 13th the last 7 years. Does that mean you'd trade the 13th pick fort the 15th pick straight up?

You're using the "I-just-flipped-heads-3-times-in-a-row, so-I'm-more-likely-to-flip-tails-this-time" rationale. It's completely false. What the 13th pick has produced in the past has absolutely no bearing on what it will produce ths year. Also, the 13th pick is a commodity. They can trade up or down for player(s) they like.

And again, it's not just Revis VS the 13th pick (more like the 11th or 12th based on the value of the other pick next year). It's actually:

A. Revis

VS

B. (1) The 11th or 12th pick + (2) about 11-13 million dolloars in cap space per season.

There's no way I'd take A over B on a mediocre team like the Buccs. I'd keep building through the draft & looking for a better QB.

unproven commodities...in general first rounders are still about 50/50...ill take the guy that i already know is good...not a guy that may be good someday

 

[Dodub]

The reason I called him an "anchor" is the same reason I'd call Alex Smith or Tony Romo the same thing. They're worse than terrible QBs because it's easier to part ways with terrible QBs. With mediocre QBs, they trick you in to thinking they might win you a SB some day because they have a great game every once in a while.

In what way is he mediocre? No QB who throws for 4,000 yards and 27 tds is medicore. He has one of the stronger arms in the NFL, size of Big Ben with more mobility. He might not be as polished of a passer as Drew Brees but he is in no way medicore.

 

[mike hunt]

The Jets new GM is making a splash and showing some balls so far, i hope he knows how to build a team through the draft.

Good luck Revis i will miss seeing you in the Green and White, week 1 Bucs and Jets will be a circus.

 

[BUCCS469]

The reason I called him an "anchor" is the same reason I'd call Alex Smith or Tony Romo the same thing. They're worse than terrible QBs because it's easier to part ways with terrible QBs. With mediocre QBs, they trick you in to thinking they might win you a SB some day because they have a great game every once in a while.

freeman has had a different offense ever year he has been here you know that right....this will be his first time going into a season with the same offense as the year before..

 

[NinerSickness]

How exactly is he the anchor? They had one of the worse defenses in the league last year; 29th in team defense and 32nd in passing defense. Unless Freeman can defend the pass then there is no chance that he is holding this team back.

I'm not saying a good QB would have won a SB with the Buccs last year. But the fact that he had a bad defense doesn't change the fact that he was bad too. Brees had an even worse defense, and he played great.

Freeman was 9th in the NFL in yards and 7th in the NFL for passing TD's, he was pretty average in terms of ints and % but certainly not to the point where one could assume that he is the thing holding the team back. I would love to find out how he is the problem with this franchise.[/QUOTE]

Total yards & total TDs is one of the worst ways to evaluate QB performance. That's what fans who don't understand the game and sports writers have been doing for decades. Drew Bledsoe always had obscene total numbers, but he was never one of the great QBs of his time.

Freeman isn't a guy on whom you can consistently count. Put him in a comfortable atmosphere in a small-ish game and he might do well. Put him in a pressure situation and he's no good. His 6.41 YPA on the road was attrocious; compare that to Tony Romo who had 7.36 YPA on the road. And Romo's another guy who's holding his franchise back IMO.

NFL teams want a guy who's good in pressure situations like Eli Manning, not a guy who puts up a bunch of total yards in the regular season.

 

[Dodub]

In 16 games Freeman was over 200 yards in 14 of them, at 240 yards 7 times, 300 yards 4 times. On the season he was over 4,000 yards. 4 times this year he threw 3 tds or more, 9 times this year he threw multiple TDs, he only had two games without TD's. He did not have a good game "every once in a while".

This is all while learning a new offensive system.

He still has a bit of work to do on his decision making and at times is off target on shorter throws but he is a legit NFL starting QB

 

[NinerSickness]

unproven commodities...in general first rounders are still about 50/50...ill take the guy that i already know is good...not a guy that may be good someday

Then why not trade all of your draft picks for current NFL players?

That is a flawed, simplistic way of looking at personell decisions. You're not taking all factors into consideration.

 

[NinerSickness]

In 16 games Freeman was over 200 yards in 14 of them, at 240 yards 7 times, 300 yards 4 times. On the season he was over 4,000 yards. 4 times this year he threw 3 tds or more, 9 times this year he threw multiple TDs, he only had two games without TD's. He did not have a good game "every once in a while".

This is all while learning a new offensive system.

Matt Stafford had a bunch of passing yards too last season. He was still a terrible QB in 2012.

By the way, it's a little off topic, but since we're talking about bad QBs, are you still riding the Bradford train, or have you come over to my side?

 

[threelittleturds]

There is no possibility that this could have ended any better for the Bucs. None whatsoever. I am Very Very Very Happy!!!

Also kinda ends all that prima donna crap. He wants the Money he is going to have play and earn it.

Don't get your hopes up, that prima donna shit almost never ends. He still wants to get paid top QB money.

I think it is a great pickup for the Bucs though, it'll be really interesting to see how passing teams attack that with Revis Island and Goldson patrolling the other parts of the field. They gave up a lot but if he comes back healthy as the best CB in the NFL, well, then the price was worth it.

 

[NinerSickness]

freeman has had a different offense ever year he has been here you know that right....this will be his first time going into a season with the same offense as the year before..

Alex Smith had the same problem, but he's still a mediocre QB regardless of what system he runs.

 

[BUCCS469]

Then why not trade all of your draft picks for current NFL players?

That is a flawed, simplistic way of looking at personell decisions. You're not taking all factors into consideration.

why take it to the extreme...its a move you make when the need is right..what you just said is you admitting you dont have a reasonable answer...if you think first rounders are such a slam dunk show me a draft where 50% of the players taken ended up in the pro bowl at least once.

 

[BUCCS469]

Alex Smith had the same problem, but he's still a mediocre QB regardless of what system he runs.

tell me when alex smith put up the numbers freeman did last year...

oh yeah and what pick was he taken with?

 

[Dodub]

=NinerSickness;2924728]I'm not saying a good QB would have won a SB with the Buccs last year. But the fact that he had a bad defense doesn't change the fact that he was bad too. Brees had an even worse defense, and he played great.

Freeman was 9th in the NFL in yards and 7th in the NFL for passing TD's, he was pretty average in terms of ints and % but certainly not to the point where one could assume that he is the thing holding the team back. I would love to find out how he is the problem with this franchise.

Total yards & total TDs is one of the worst ways to evaluate QB performance. That's what fans who don't understand the game and sports writers have been doing for decades. Drew Bledsoe always had obscene total numbers, but he was never one of the great QBs of his time.

Freeman isn't a guy on whom you can consistently count. Put him in a comfortable atmosphere in a small-ish game and he might do well. Put him in a pressure situation and he's no good. His 6.41 YPA on the road was attrocious; compare that to Tony Romo who had 7.36 YPA on the road. And Romo's another guy who's holding his franchise back IMO.

NFL teams want a guy who's good in pressure situations like Eli Manning, not a guy who puts up a bunch of total yards in the regular season.[/QUOTE]

Not just a bad defense. That defense was the only thing keeping the from being a playoff contender. I believe if the defense played as well as the offense they go to the playoffs this past year. He didn't play bad, he had a pretty good season. He had a better season than; Matt Stafford, Andy Dalton, Jay Cutler and was on par this season with Eli Manning and Phillip Rivers in regards to yards, tds and ints. I guess all those guys should be let go too.

Yards, TDs and INTs are the only things that matter when evaluating a QB. Anythiing other than those things are complete bs or nonsense from message board members trying to make themselves feel special. I don't give a crap about QB rating. I would put my knowledge of the game against anyone in this damn board, from my playing days to my days now as a coach.

Can a QB move the ball down the field, can the QB get the ball into the end zone and can the QB keep the ball out of the hands of the defense. Those are the only things that matter, when evaluating a QB. Period. No one in their right mind is going to tell me that TD's and yards don't matter in terms of a QB.

 

[threelittleturds]

The Jets new GM is making a splash and showing some balls so far, i hope he knows how to build a team through the draft.

Good luck Revis i will miss seeing you in the Green and White, week 1 Bucs and Jets will be a circus.

Unfortunately the owner has screwed the Jets this year. Rex Ryan is a lame duck coach and everybody knows that GMs want to hire their guy. Maybe it will work out, but most times this situation is a complete disaster.

Now without Revis, it is my belief that the new GM wants to build the Jets his way, not Ryan's way... so if the players start to believe that and realize that Ryan is just a fired coach walking, it could easily turn into a 2-14 season.

 

[threelittleturds]

tell me when alex smith put up the numbers freeman did last year...

oh yeah and what pick was he taken with?

Who cares about the Chiefs starting QB?

 

[Dodub]

Alex Smith had the same problem, but he's still a mediocre QB regardless of what system he runs.

You seem to be having a hard time seeing the difference between players who are in similar circumstances. Alex Smith and Josh Freeman are polar opposites in terms of QB play. Smith perfers short and intermeidate throws while Freeman perfers intermediate to long throwns. Smith is more of a cautious game manageer while Freeman is a gun slinger. Smith has a weak but accurate arm, while Freeman has a cannon but isn't as accurate. Smith takes a while to get confidence while Freeman at times has too much confidence. Smith plays with his brain, Freeman plays with his abilities. They are completely different players.

Man that 4,000 yards and 27 QB's were sooo medicore. Too bad there aren't 10 QB's in the NFL who reached those levels.

 

[BUCCS469]

You seem to be having a hard time seeing the difference between players who are in similar circumstances. Alex Smith and Josh Freeman are polar opposites in terms of QB play. Smith perfers short and intermeidate throws while Freeman perfers intermediate to long throwns. Smith is more of a cautious game manageer while Freeman is a gun slinger. Smith has a weak but accurate arm, while Freeman has a cannon but isn't as accurate. Smith takes a while to get confidence while Freeman at times has too much confidence. Smith plays with his brain, Freeman plays with his abilities. They are completely different players.

Man that 4,000 yards and 27 QB's were sooo medicore. Too bad there aren't 10 QB's in the NFL who reached those levels.

at least theres someone else here talking sense

 

[NinerSickness]

He didn't play bad, he had a pretty good season. He had a better season than; Matt Stafford, Andy Dalton, Jay Cutler and was on par this season with Eli Manning and Phillip Rivers in regards to yards, tds and ints. I guess all those guys should be let go too.

Cutler is screwed from the get-go (along with anyone who would've played in Arizona) because his OL isn't just bad; it's one of teh worst OLs in many years.

Stafford was terrible last year, but I think he's a lot more talented than Freeman, so I'd hang onto Stafford.

Dalton? I wouldn't go with Dalton (or Ponder) if I were running an NFL team. They're mediocre too.

Rivers has next to no talent on offense any more, but he arguably the best QB in the NFL over a 5-year span. No, you don't cut a guy like that. Eli? Eli is arguably the best QB in the entire NFL. He had a rough run with some injuries on the team, but he's the reason the Giants are always going to be one of the scarriest teams (probably THE scarriest) to the Niners in their SB window.

Yards, TDs and INTs are the only things that matter when evaluating a QB. Anythiing other than those things are complete bs or nonsense from message board members trying to make themselves feel special. I don't give a crap about QB rating.

Attempts don't matter? The QB rating takes how many attempts you take into consideration. That's why it's a far better measure of performance than total numbers. But I also look at what they do against the best teams & disregard the cream puffs. That's why I never believed in Alex Smith.

 

[Dodub]

Cutler is screwed from the get-go (along with anyone who would've played in Arizona) because his OL isn't just bad; it's one of teh worst OLs in many years.

Stafford was terrible last year, but I think he's a lot more talented than Freeman, so I'd hang onto Stafford.

Dalton? I wouldn't go with Dalton (or Ponder) if I were running an NFL team. They're mediocre too.

Rivers has next to no talent on offense any more, but he arguably the best QB in the NFL over a 5-year span. No, you don't cut a guy like that. Eli? Eli is arguably the best QB in the entire NFL. He had a rough run with some injuries on the team, but he's the reason the Giants are always going to be one of the scarriest teams (probably THE scarriest) to the Niners in their SB window.



Attempts don't matter? The QB rating takes how many attempts you take into consideration. That's why it's a far better measure of performance than total numbers. But I also look at what they do against the best teams & disregard the cream puffs. That's why I never believed in Alex Smith.

Attempts matter but not nearly as much as those other things. Can a QB move the ball, score TD's and not turn it over. That is what I care about the most. The other stuff is just fluff for me. You can't disregard cream puffs statistically because that is where most of the QB's have their big stat padding games, if you do that for him you have to do it for every other QB. If we are judging QB's only on how they perform in pressure situations, we have to take a harder look at Favre who so often crumbled under pressure, as well as Peyton earlier in his career. I like looking at the overall picture.