Jay Cutler Won't Vaccinate His Children

[wingsauce7]

I still have no idea why this is triggering so much discussion. A parent has the right to not have their children vaccinated. If it's a bad idea, it's THEIR risk. Parents who decide to have their children vaccinated shouldn't worry because their kids are now immune to the effects of the disease.

 

[BoBlake]

I still have no idea why this is triggering so much discussion. A parent has the right to not have their children vaccinated. If it's a bad idea, it's THEIR risk. Parents who decide to have their children vaccinated shouldn't worry because their kids are now immune to the effects of the disease.

Except that vaccines are not 100% effective on all kids....no drugs are. So even if some of those parents vaccinated their children, they may still be able to catch the disease.

It is endangering other students.



Plus, whenever people on the internet see other people being idiots, they are legally obligated to comment on it.

 

[wingsauce7]

Except that vaccines are not 100% effective on all kids....no drugs are. So even if some of those parents vaccinated their children, they may still be able to catch the disease.

It is endangering other students.

Huh???

 

[Mondio]

that excuse is weak sauce. Sorry, but you're infintitely times more likely to injure or kill YOUR kid by YOUR own stupid fucking decisions than they are to be somehow damaged by an unvaccinated kid. Seriously.

If you're that afraid, put them in a bubble. Even as it stands, Polio, one of our most feared diseases, was nothing to the overwhelming majority of people infected with it. absolutely NOTHING. not even a fucking sniffle. a good 4% or so had mild to moderate flu like symptoms and around 1% or less had severe neurologic conditions.

Last I checked our hospitals are still taking care of million of kids and adults with neurologic conditions. Polio, no polio does it really matter? So we have less polio and no iron lungs, we still have overflowing hospitals and kids and adults with some other neurologic condition on ventilators.

 

[BoBlake]

Huh???

Are you slow? Special? English as a second language?



Seriously, if my grandfather lived long enough to see us arguing over weather vaccines were a good or a bad thing.....

 

[BoBlake]

that excuse is weak sauce. Sorry, but you're infintitely times more likely to injure or kill YOUR kid by YOUR own stupid fucking decisions than they are to be somehow damaged by an unvaccinated kid. Seriously.

If you're that afraid, put them in a bubble. Even as it stands, Polio, one of our most feared diseases, was nothing to the overwhelming majority of people infected with it. absolutely NOTHING. not even a fucking sniffle. a good 4% or so had mild to moderate flu like symptoms and around 1% or less had severe neurologic conditions.

Last I checked our hospitals are still taking care of million of kids and adults with neurologic conditions. Polio, no polio does it really matter? So we have less polio and no iron lungs, we still have overflowing hospitals and kids and adults with some other neurologic condition on ventilators.

I'm not afraid of it. I just think if there is a proven, safe, cheap, effective vaccine it should be used as broadly as humanly possible.

 

[wingsauce7]

Vaccines are given to protect the vaccinated person from getting a certain disease. Vaccines don't eliminate a disease. If 100% of people were vaccinated against measles, it still doesn't destroy measles. Even vaccinated people still carry the measles virus. If the vaccine works, and you are vaccinated, you wouldn't get measles.

It doesn't matter if the person next to you is vaccinated or not. If YOU'RE vaccinated you wouldn't get measles.

 

[JDM]

Vaccines are given to protect the vaccinated person from getting a certain disease. Vaccines don't eliminate a disease. If 100% of people were vaccinated against measles, it still doesn't destroy measles. Even vaccinated people still carry the measles virus. If the vaccine works, and you are vaccinated, you wouldn't get measles.

It doesn't matter if the person next to you is vaccinated or not. If YOU'RE vaccinated you wouldn't get measles.

You won't get the forms that the vaccine covers. Not being vaccinated provides several scales of magnitude more opportunity for the virus to mutate to a form the vaccine doesn't cover.

 

[nebearsfan70]

JDM... I appreciate your attempts to rationalize your argument concerning the mutation of viruses, but your are blatantly wrong. Please, just stop. You crossed the line from ignorance to just plain stupidity, and you keep digging your hole deeper and deeper. I understand your ego can't let it go, but you need to know that your knowledge of viral mutations doesn't exist. I will try this a different way so maybe you will understand. Vaccines contain a "dead" or non-active viral agent (which is often always a viral "body" without the RNA or DNA). Once introduced, the immune system responds by creating anti-bodies (anti-bodies actually affix themselves to a protein in the outer wall of the virus body [it is like a cell wall except it does not usually contain lipids]). Once affixed, the anti-body releases a hormone that signals macrophages to "ingest" the virus. End of virus. Of course there are other mechanisms for which a virus is rendered useless, but I am going to keep it simple for you. The problem: Just because the immune system produces anti-bodies does not mean all the viral agents are miraculously and instantly destroyed in the body. What really happens is an arms race between the virus and the immune system. Viruses not affixed by an anti-body continue to replicate themselves inside cells in the body while the immune system attempts to eradicate the virus. Infection occurs when the virus replicates quicker than the immune system can handle, the result of this equation is the person begins to feel sick. Okay. That is the basics. But there are two things you need to know that you seem not to understand. First, viruses that you stated "have been eradicated" due to vaccines are actually alive and well. I know you are confused, but re-read the above and maybe you will get it. As I stated before, every person in the USA has had contact with potentially dangerous viruses and they are either dormant in the body or they are active. The immune system is able to handle the "invasion" and keep pace with the virus (including of viruses that the person has been vaccinated). Okay, so what is important is the mutation rate of a virus. Let's start here: There are basically two types of viral agents... DNA based and RNA based. The mutation rate of DNA based viral agents is significantly higher than that of animal or plant cells (which is 10 (-6) per generation). But there is much more genetic material in a DNA vs RNA viral agent, so if you can follow that means the RNA mutation rate is significantly higher. Now for the really important part: A virus mutates every time it replicates itself... The amount of mutation and where the mutation occurs along the helix is significant. So you should understand that it does not matter how much viral material is in the body, but what matters is the type of virus that is in the body and the mutation rate of the virus.

Just so we understand each other...

 

[wingsauce7]

Are you slow? Special? English as a second language?

I don't think so. You stated that no vaccine is 100% effective for everyone. OK, then if that's true, the person who the vaccine isn't effective on is vulnerable to catching the disease regardless of whether the person they are exposed to have been vaccinated. People who are vaccinated, still carry the disease.

 

[JDM]

No, I am not. If there are 1 billion instances of replication, there is 1000 times the chance that a harmful mutation occurs than if there are a million instances.

Vaccination allows the body to fight faster, resulting in substantially less of the virus in the system, less time to continue to reproduce, and overall scales of magnitude less reproductions, resulting in equivalently less probability of harmful mutation.

 

[wingsauce7]

You won't get the forms that the vaccine covers. Not being vaccinated provides several scales of magnitude more opportunity for the virus to mutate to a form the vaccine doesn't cover.

...and witches once lived in Salem...

 

[BoBlake]

Herd Immunity

Herd immunity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[NinerSickness]

The disease was dying out anyway. And it had far more to do with living conditions and overall sanitation than any other factor. Getting vaccinated for measles is like having horse-and-buggy insurance.

 

[BoBlake]

No one really dies from pink eye. That doesn't mean the disease is dying out.

 

[NinerSickness]

No one really dies from pink eye. That doesn't mean the disease is dying out.

And practically no one died from the measles even before the vaccine was invented. But for some reason people think the .000237% chance of dying from something is a bigger risk than potential long-term, detrimental effects of vaccines on the human body. I don't blame anyone who thinks the latter is the greater of the 2 risks, and that "danger" certainly doesn't justify 4 MILLION vaccines every year.

By the way, did the Bubonic plague die out? Or is that one ready for a come back?

 

[BoBlake]

...is a bigger risk than potential long-term, detrimental effects of vaccines on the human body.

And what exactly are those risks again? Statistically speaking (since you're fond of those).

 

[NinerSickness]

And what exactly are those risks again? Statistically speaking (since you're fond of those).

How 'bout intravenously putting aluminum into the human body? They used to use mercury, but now they use aluminum, which is possibly even more toxic than mercury.

But the fact remains that there really isn't such thing as proof when it comes to cause and effect in the medical community. There are so many factors that nobody really knows 100%. Anyone who says they know for sure whether something is healthy or unsafe is lying to you. That's why there's a risk either way. You just have to go with what you think makes the most sense.

 

[BoBlake]

How 'bout intravenously putting aluminum into the human body? They used to use mercury, but now they use aluminum, which is possibly even more toxic than mercury.

But the fact remains that there really isn't such thing as proof when it comes to cause and effect in the medical community. There are so many factors that nobody really knows 100%. Anyone who says they know for sure whether something is healthy or unsafe is lying to you. That's why there's a risk either way. You just have to go with what you think makes the most sense.

So you have nothing statistically? Got it.

You know what else, oxygen is deadly too (at high enough levels). It doesn't mean that it's deadly to breathe.

 

[BoBlake]

You just have to go with what you think makes the most sense.

Ok, you keep trusting "reality TV stars."

I'll stick to biologists and other medical professionals (who, I'm sure, vaccinate their children).