Jay Cutler... For discussion

[wood20ks]

YEP.

To add: Who was available when they resigned Jay? McCown... We were not in the market for a first round QB Draft pick. And needed Draft picks for Defense. Rather have Bridgewater over Kyle Fuller?[/QUOTE]

Or Manz..........i`m thinking so right now.

Fuller has been great tho.Yough to take him off the roster.But thats hindsight.

 

[wood20ks]

...and all those yards yielded a victory? C'mon, everyone knows Cutler is an interception machine. Two picks leading to 14 points, missed passes, and dumb decisions. The defense didn't help either, but my original point is clear. If a QB cannot win the big games, win games when it matters, you are destined for mediocrity. Need data? Look over the last 5 seasons. Does he have good games? Yep, he sure does. But a squirrel can find a nut every now and then too.

My point is simply this: With all these weapons around him, the guy still fucks up. Period. This is his make-or-break season. He got paid, he has the talent around him... And he still cannot beat the Packers. Can't win in the division, you don't make the playoffs... And you are average.



Okay, nice history lesson. But what does that have to do with today? Not a damn thing except... It shows how poorly the Bears assess the QB position.

Sorry if I disagree with you and others on the board, but I'm tired of the same old Jay. Apparently everyone besides Bear fans realizes this as well.

That is a huge :

 

[wood20ks]

Ok... so what are you going to do about it? Stop being a Bear fan? Stop watching the games? Bitch about Jay until he's gone? (at least 3 seasons of him... and potentially more) You absolutely can disagree and be pissed about his mistakes- but what does that do for you? Just pissed off and mad.

No..........ol`#34 got me as a bear fan back in 754 as a rookie,and I will always remain one forever.Just cause I hate one player that gets my hopes up just to have the rug thrown out from underneath,doesn`t mean i quit being a Bear fan...........otherwise i`d give up being a Cub fan years ago.

 

[wood20ks]

Those two INT's are not on Jay... You can blame the wide out on the int's. If anything I can blame Jay for not hitting Bennett IN the endzone rather than in front of it, to end the half.

My point of that list is, and the current crop of QB's list is, it isn't as easy as anyone makes it out to be, to replace Jay, with someone ATLEAST as good, forgetting for a second better than Jay. That's why I posted all those current QB's. There are a LOT of bad or mediocre, worse than Jay QB's in this league and only a few that are better. Payton, Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Rivers right now, Smith in Arizona but I question his other years, Wilson, Luck... That's about it. You're not getting one of those.

Add cam to that list.........Along with Stafford and ryan........And possibly Foles.dalton and kaep too..............js.

 

[wood20ks]

Pick one, here is a list of the last few years drafts QB's:


EJ Manuel, Geno Smith, Glennon, Barkley, Nassib, Tyler Wilson... 2013
Luck (can't have him was the first pick), Griffen, Tannehill, Weeden, Osweiler, Wilson (here you go, Third rounder! but who knew? or he would have gone second to Luck)... 2012
Newton, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder, Dalton, Kaepernick, Mallet, Stanzi... 2011
Don't think there is a single starter from the 2010 class of QB's...
And only Stafford is a starter from the 2009 class of QB's and he was the first pick.

So there you are... go ahead, tell me who you want... Wilson but he was a 3rd rounder.... Luck we wouldn't have had the # 1 pick in the draft... So who? I'm telling you, it isn't that easy. There is a huge list of real bad and some maybe qb's since 2009.

we traded for jay.................

 

[wood20ks]

This stat- Jay Cutler now has a 1-9 RECORD against the Packers since he has been a Bear.

Urlacher: 9-18 against GB- Only won HALF as many as he lost. WHY?
Briggs/Tillman: 9-15 (1-10 since 09 too, yes I know they were both injured in some of those games)
Hester: 6-12
Forte: 3-11

I'm making the point that it's a team game. Yet these guys don't get the shit. They played and lost against them too. Isn't Football the ultimate TEAM game?

And the rest of those players don`t have the ball in their hands every snap either.

The last time the Bears won more then 3 games in a row against GB was 1990-1992. They lost 10 straight from 94-98. 7 straight from 2000-03.
Using the 1-9 stat is BS...its just a way to point out the writer bias. It's weak.

Maybe the team`s squads.........Did the defense only score 17 pts?...........no.............Even tho they gave up a ton,its Jays job to try to get those points back.......Not to give up more.

 

[HubertJubberman]

I think he's a swell body builder

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

My point of that list is, and the current crop of QB's list is, it isn't as easy as anyone makes it out to be, to replace Jay, with someone ATLEAST as good, forgetting for a second better than Jay. That's why I posted all those current QB's. There are a LOT of bad or mediocre, worse than Jay QB's in this league and only a few that are better. Payton, Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Rivers right now, Smith in Arizona but I question his other years, Wilson, Luck... That's about it. You're not getting one of those.

I'm not so sure. McCown is demonstrably lame, but the Bears offense made him look pretty good last year. Are we really sure Jay is all that replaceable?

I don't know, I just got done watching all 4 Bears games this season, and so far Cutler has been extremely underwhelming to my eyes. If he doesn't start playing a lot better and a lot more consistently, I am going to join the Cutler-haters.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

let me be more clear. What aggravated me so much about watching these games on the All-22 is how frequently Cutler either misses or chooses not to pass to the most open receiver. He is making a lot of mistakes out there.

 

[NCChiFan]

we traded for jay.................

My point is, it isn't easy to replace Jay, like draft for him... Look at all those horrid QB's that folks drafted. Since '09, only 2 have really excelled, Luck and Wilson. THAT's IT. You could make an argument a few more have reached the Jay level of expertise (Stafford), but the way I look at that list only 2 have exceeded Jay. Those are not great odds.

We can hate all we want, but calling for him to be benched or replaced isn't that easy or even realistic at this point.

 

[NCChiFan]

I gathered that list of QB's partly because of the article that came out last week saying Jay almost went to Washington instead of the Bears. If Jay had, who would be the Bear QB right now??? Surely, Lovie and Jerry Angelo would have tried to draft one. So, I ask again, who from that list do you think they would have drafted? I doubt they would have gambled on Wilson. The Bears never came close to having a 1st pick in a draft for either Stafford or Luck. The rest of that list... Pretty much sh#$. Would B. Marshall have chosen to come to Chicago if we didn't have a QB?

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

and another thing....

this post-game "it was Marshall's fault" stuff...I suppose strictly speaking that's true. But Marshall...who is no dummy...in one very real sense was doing the right thing. Watch that play. He is doing a double-move because the Packer secondary ALL DAY was jumping short routes. The Matthews/Williams-tipped interception was a classic route jump (imagine if Josh Morgan had simply run an outside deep route, he would have been wide open for a TD on that one because the Packers were clearly in Cover 3 and he had ZERO help on the deep outside....that was purely yet another Packer secondary gamble...even if he turned a ran outside after the initial slant he would have been wide open). So by this point in the game, Marshall knows this. Marshall *correctly* anticipates that Shields is going to cut the route, so he makes a double move...not in the plans, but Marshall's double move totally exposed Shields. Marshall would have probably scored a touchdown if Cutler had guessed correctly like Marshall did. So maybe it wasn't what they had agreed to do, but I really can't fault Marshall for exploiting the major weakness in the Packer coverage. Too bad Cutler didn't recognize that.

No doubt Cutler can't read everyone's mind, I'm not expecting him to be psychic. But he and Marshall have been playing together a long time. One way or another, those two have to be on the same page with that kind of thing.

 

[NCChiFan]

Marshall would have probably scored a touchdown if Cutler had guessed correctly like Marshall did.

Not sure if it is about guessing as much as it is about making a proper read. If Jay had felt comfortable enough to wait another second, he would have seen what Marshall saw and it would have been 6pts. But, Jay had either his head timer going off, (pass now, pass now) or didn't see Sheilds as he could have been screened by the blocking lineman or was locked in on Brandon making the stop, cut and not the up read.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

I gathered that list of QB's partly because of the article that came out last week saying Jay almost went to Washington instead of the Bears. If Jay had, who would be the Bear QB right now??? Surely, Lovie and Jerry Angelo would have tried to draft one. So, I ask again, who from that list do you think they would have drafted? I doubt they would have gambled on Wilson. The Bears never came close to having a 1st pick in a draft for either Stafford or Luck. The rest of that list... Pretty much sh#$. Would B. Marshall have chosen to come to Chicago if we didn't have a QB?

the "other universe what-if" game is interesting to play but almost always hard to really nail down. I see one advantage in trading for Cutler, which is that we have squandered fewer higher draft picks on QBs than we otherwise would have. But the "if not Cutler then who?" argument suffers from the following weaknesses:

- Cutler hasn't actually delivered enough when it has mattered, so what, exactly, is it we would have lost?
- when the rest of the offense was "fixed", and Cutler went out (i.e. 2013), the offense still performed fine, leading one to wonder just how easily another mid-grade QB (such as Cutler is...and let's face it, he's not playing in the Top 15 of QBs so far this year) could have replaced his value
- if we hadn't signed him this year, in effect saying "well, I guess we will take our chances in the QB lottery and probably not make the playoffs this year", in the long run the Bears *might* have been better off. After all, that's $20 million in freed up money you can suddenly spend on the positions we wound up using the high draft picks for

Now, understand, I am not there yet. It is four games into his new contract, and if over the life of this season and the rest of those years he rocks out like he has always had the potential to, it will have been a great deal for the Bears. But so far he has not done what he is getting paid for. Yet.

As to the point about QBs drafted since the Cutler deal...and of course this is all very easy to say with the benefit of hindsight, but there have been numerous QBs drafted who would have more or less replaced his value and may in time wind up exceeding it. For one thing, it is WAY TOO EARLY to size up the last 3 years of QB drafts because QBs often take several years to judge their long-term worth to a franchise. But...at a minimum, I think we can say this:

QBs drafted since Cutler trade that are clearly better than Cutler: Luck
QBs drafted since Cutler trade that are at least in the same approximate class at Cutler: Stafford, Newton, Locker (he is getting better fast by the way, in case no one is paying attention), Dalton, Kaepernick, RG3 (maybe, jury is still rather out on what he is going to turn into), Foles, debatably Tannehill and Cousins (yes, that's very debatable, but the dropff isn't major...they are at least startable, and Tannehill is also demonstrably improving yet).

Obviously several of the other young QBs such as Mallett and this year's class have yet to be determined. And if Sam Bradford ever gets healthy, who knows with him.

So for all of these QBs, had we had the psychic foresight to realize that they weren't busts (I know that's easy to say about these guys now, years later), but the Bears organization probably would have been better off if we had grabbed one of these QBs with our picks for the ones who were available (obviously not Andrew Luck etc.), kept the draft picks we traded, and used the money elsewhere. Of course, who is to say the team wouldn't have squandered the QB picks on busts like Ponder or Sanchez? We don't know and never will, and this is the one value Cutler has provided this team. He is a known quantity. For better and for worse.

 

[anotheridiot]

Since we are bringing up value and the trade, lets not forget that the two first round picks were #18 in 2009 and #22 in 2010. The range of players in 09 were Macklin, Peddigew, Percy Harvin in '10 Demarius Thomas, Bulaga and Dez Bryant. You can argue two of those players would make any QB better and we most probably would not need a Marshall....

In the bears defense, there were not many QB's after Stafford or Bradford #1's that year, and we could have used the pick for Tebow, so there is a silver lining.

 

[richig07]

Once again, for another season. I have officially had it with all of the Jay Cutler nonsense on this board.

The Cutler "haters" will find reasons to pin everything on him, and the Cutler "nut huggers" will generally back him through most everything he gets criticized for. Even if I do feel the "nut huggers" are far more sensible. As most of us did pin MUCH of the blame on Jay for the BUF and GB losses. While the "haters" can't even take their fucking blinders off for a second to admit when he plays well. Besides going, "Hey! At least he didn't fuck up, and turn it over!" Lol

These type of threads are exhausting and they do nothing but go in circles.

 

[NCChiFan]

(such as Cutler is...and let's face it, he's not playing in the Top 15 of QBs so far this year)

Define "not playing in the Top 15 QB's so far this year"... Because:

Passing yard leaders so far this year... Jay Cutler #10
Passer Rating ESPN has ... Jay Cutler #13
NFL QB Rating has.... Jay Cutler #10
QB Rating in the red zone has.... Jay Cutler #12
Total QBR has Jay Cutler at ..... #16

Are you a QBR purest? Or is there a rating system I'm missing here?

I'll give you an even funnier bunch of stats, if you want, that actually show Jay having a much better statistical year than Aaron Rodgers to this point (odd huh).

Is Jay a top 5 qb? No, I see it, you see it, we all see it. I get it. But, to simply say, hey our system is such anyone can perform in it, I don't buy, last year is looking more like a fluke for McCown than anything else or maybe it was just a perfect storm for McCown?? I still think Jay is as good as anyone you are going to get, either through the last 5 historical drafts (realistically to this point) or through a trade, Cousins anyone? Maybe that's who we would have ended up with. ????


richig07, what I don't get are folk saying that just anyone could be a QB and be successful in the Bear system. Or that any grocery bagger off the street could be an all pro for the Bears. It just isn't that simple.

 

[NCChiFan]

I guess what is bothering me, is that I've spend my entire 70's, 1/2 of the 80's, most of the 90's all of the 00's watching a parade of inept, incompetent QB's lead our Bear's team to disasters, while Greenbay has managed to pull off back to back HoF QB's. Jay is the best QB I've seen put on a Bear uniform and is at least as good as Jim McMahon. Sad, just sad.

 

[anotheridiot]

Once again, for another season. I have officially had it with all of the Jay Cutler nonsense on this board.

The Cutler "haters" will find reasons to pin everything on him, and the Cutler "nut huggers" will generally back him through most everything he gets criticized for. Even if I do feel the "nut huggers" are far more sensible. As most of us did pin MUCH of the blame on Jay for the BUF and GB losses. While the "haters" can't even take their fucking blinders off for a second to admit when he plays well. Besides going, "Hey! At least he didn't fuck up, and turn it over!" Lol

These type of threads are exhausting and they do nothing but go in circles.

Thats it in a nut shell, just think the definition of elite quarterback is a little more than a guy that does not fuck up.

I guess the "haters" just know playoff wins are more important than stats and you gotta get there first. Maybe this will be the week I actually see Jay throw a pass and catch a receiver in stride and they run for an easy touchdown like the elites Manning, Rodgers and Brady usually throw.

Sorry to disappoint you, I will not be holding my breath.

 

[anotheridiot]

I guess what is bothering me, is that I've spend my entire 70's, 1/2 of the 80's, most of the 90's all of the 00's watching a parade of inept, incompetent QB's lead our Bear's team to disasters, while Greenbay has managed to pull off back to back HoF QB's. Jay is the best QB I've seen put on a Bear uniform and is at least as good as Jim McMahon. Sad, just sad.

You watched McMahon and Grossman take this team to the superbowl in your lifetime. It was never a necessity to need that primadonna QB. Jay will break every passing record held by bear quarterbacks in the history of bear football in what 6 or 7 total years here. If they dont make it to the superbowl with Jay, we will be back to hoping we get another Grossman lol.