Jay Cutler... For discussion

[nebearsfan70]

Those two INT's are not on Jay... You can blame the wide out on the int's. If anything I can blame Jay for not hitting Bennett IN the endzone rather than in front of it, to end the half.

My point of that list is, and the current crop of QB's list is, it isn't as easy as anyone makes it out to be, to replace Jay, with someone ATLEAST as good, forgetting for a second better than Jay. That's why I posted all those current QB's. There are a LOT of bad or mediocre, worse than Jay QB's in this league and only a few that are better. Payton, Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Rivers right now, Smith in Arizona but I question his other years, Wilson, Luck... That's about it. You're not getting one of those.

Okay, fair enough.

 

[nebearsfan70]

Pick one, here is a list of the last few years drafts QB's:


EJ Manuel, Geno Smith, Glennon, Barkley, Nassib, Tyler Wilson... 2013
Luck (can't have him was the first pick), Griffen, Tannehill, Weeden, Osweiler, Wilson (here you go, Third rounder! but who knew? or he would have gone second to Luck)... 2012
Newton, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder, Dalton, Kaepernick, Mallet, Stanzi... 2011
Don't think there is a single starter from the 2010 class of QB's...
And only Stafford is a starter from the 2009 class of QB's and he was the first pick.

So there you are... go ahead, tell me who you want... Wilson but he was a 3rd rounder.... Luck we wouldn't have had the # 1 pick in the draft... So who? I'm telling you, it isn't that easy. There is a huge list of real bad and some maybe qb's since 2009.

This is true, but...

GB was able to draft AR, the Cardinals have a rookie QB who is making waves, etc., etc. I understand it isn't easy, but somehow other teams manage to get decent QBs (GB for example) and the Bears continue to be a non factor in the QB game. Cutler is an indication of the real problem, and that is a storied history of bad GMs.

Just saying.

 

[nebearsfan70]

This stat- Jay Cutler now has a 1-9 RECORD against the Packers since he has been a Bear.

Urlacher: 9-18 against GB- Only won HALF as many as he lost. WHY?
Briggs/Tillman: 9-15 (1-10 since 09 too, yes I know they were both injured in some of those games)
Hester: 6-12
Forte: 3-11

I'm making the point that it's a team game. Yet these guys don't get the shit. They played and lost against them too. Isn't Football the ultimate TEAM game?

The last time the Bears won more then 3 games in a row against GB was 1990-1992. They lost 10 straight from 94-98. 7 straight from 2000-03.
Using the 1-9 stat is BS...its just a way to point out the writer bias. It's weak.

Read NC's posts and then you might have some insight as to why the GB has been kicking the Bears' ass for years. I'll say it one more time for you... Bad QB play against a good team. Cutler is just another in a long list.

As for the 1-9 stat, this is a thread about Jay Cutler, right? Highly relevant. The fact you claim it is "weak" exemplifies your own claim for "writer bias".

Seriously Joey, get over it. I know your panties must be in a wad because Jay fucked up, yet again, but seriously just stop. I was a Cutler supporter, but the longer I watched him play the more I realize how average he really is. I understand he is the best QB the Bears have had in years, I get it. But to say that is a testament of the poor quality of work of the Bears' front office (for the QB position).

 

[nebearsfan70]

I'm finished with this thread. You guys are stuck on Cutler, which is fine. After all, he is the best QB the Bears have had in years. I get it. But he will not win the big games, as evidence from his career, and as long as he continues at the helm you will see up and down seasons ending in mediocrity.

I hope he works out, but it just doesn't look that way anymore. Sorry if I pissed you guys off, but it is my opinion.

 

[anotheridiot]

YEP.

To add: Who was available when they resigned Jay? McCown... We were not in the market for a first round QB Draft pick. And needed Draft picks for Defense. Rather have Bridgewater over Kyle Fuller?

Its far more than who was available when the bears were not even looking. They tried to sneak a late round pick to the practice squad last year to develop. They didnt try drafting any since they had jay.

Look at late picks, or after we already picked some stud like McLennen.

Kapernick 36th pick
Foles 88th pick
Wilson 75th pick
Dalton 35
Hoyer Undrafted
Bridgewater 32
Gino smith 39
Cousins 102
Hell, we even had Stanton here 43rd.

It was never in the cards to even get someone to replace him. Nobody is picking anyone over Jay, some just demand him to live up to his salary, take responsibility, own it, and then let them work it out.

I think the biggest argument we had was that you got this QB whisperer and dont let him have a QB to develop. They did with Jay the same they did with Slausen, Gold, Jennings, paid them retail. There were no discounts. I guess Emery is on the side of pay them to be elite. We will see how that works out in Cincinatti.

 

[toooverbearing]

Does anyone think we should have chosen Bridgewater over Fuller or Geno Smith over Kyle Long? I'm just curious.

 

[richig07]

Does anyone think we should have chosen Bridgewater over Fuller or Geno Smith over Kyle Long? I'm just curious.

After signing Cutler to that deal? Hell no.

You people are nuts. My god. The way you overreact to one game. Whether it be good, or bad. It's like you don't even watch the NFL.

Jay Cutler is on pace for 40 TD's and 16 INT's over the course of a season that still has a lot of football left.

Some of you are fucking insane.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

Read NC's posts and then you might have some insight as to why the GB has been kicking the Bears' ass for years. I'll say it one more time for you... Bad QB play against a good team. Cutler is just another in a long list.

So it's just the QB then? it wasn't Urlacher, Briggs, or any of the other Chicago Bears that played against the Packers over the years? It had nothing to do with the two decades of future HOFers they were playing against? (can you name another team with back to back HOF qb's?)

As for the 1-9 stat, this is a thread about Jay Cutler, right? Highly relevant. The fact you claim it is "weak" exemplifies your own claim for "writer bias".

I was making a comment of the articles I've seen over the course of this week- Every article seemed to be be headlined about Jay's record against the Packers. The sheer number of them is what irked me. That's the bias I was talking about... it's a good point- I have no problem with anyone bringing up his record... as a point- NOT as a headline in a game in which the CHICAGO BEARS didn't force a single punt- and ARodgers is the Offensive POTW... the headline is: "Cutler is 1-9 against Pack"? That's the bias- that's the frustrating part for me, it's WEAK in that it panders to the Jay Haters IMO.

Seriously Joey, get over it. I know your panties must be in a wad because Jay fucked up, yet again, but seriously just stop.

Stop what? Having my own opinion? So I can be like you all pissed off and mad...and have a dooms day approach to freaking NFL entertainment.... every time a PRO QB throws a pick? I'm not built that way. Misery loves company? huh. Sorry I don't want to be miserable...I'm optimistic- lots of football left. Only one team wins a superbowl each year.

I was a Cutler supporter, but the longer I watched him play the more I realize how average he really is. I understand he is the best QB the Bears have had in years, I get it. But to say that is a testament of the poor quality of work of the Bears' front office (for the QB position).

great- love to hear your opinion. Appreciate it. That's what these message boards are for. I do want to correct your last quote here- I'm sure it might piss you off- but it's what I believe about a lot of people who say this type of thing:

"I was a Cutler Supporter, but the longer I watched, read and bought into the bullshit meme's and articles about him the more I realized how susceptible to loud noises I really am. I mean if most posters and ESPN talking heads are saying it, it must be right." "I mean, just look at that jerkface, he must not be very good"
It's easy to take shots at him- and the loud people make headlines... (Rush Limbaugh anyone?) So believing in that is weak. Love to have you though- Step away from the darkside my friend, join us in the light of believing in something- misery is sad. GO BEARS!

 

[anotheridiot]

Dont know how this is gonna show, but can we blame a part of any of the losses on cutler when they failed to even score 20 points?

Year Date Winner Result Loser Attendance Location
2010 Monday, September 27 Chicago Bears 20–17 Green Bay Packers
2011 Sunday, January 2 Green Bay Packers 10–3 Chicago Bears
2011 Sunday, January 23* Green Bay Packers 21–14 Chicago Bears
2011 Sunday, September 25 Green Bay Packers 27–17 Chicago Bears
2011 Sunday, December 25 Green Bay Packers 35–21 Chicago Bears
2012 Thursday, September 13 Green Bay Packers 23–10 Chicago Bears
2012 Sunday, December 16 Green Bay Packers 21–13 Chicago Bears
2013 Monday, November 4 Chicago Bears 27–20 Green Bay Packers
2013 Sunday, December 29 Green Bay Packers 33–28 Chicago Bears
2014 Sunday, September 28 Green Bay Packers 38–17 Chicago Bears
2014 Sunday, November 9

Poor Jay. How about we blame the defense when they gave up over 21 and the offense when they could not manage to score 21? Would that make Jay a little responsible for poor play?

 

[toooverbearing]

After signing Cutler to that deal? Hell no.

You people are nuts. My god. The way you overreact to one game. Whether it be good, or bad. It's like you don't even watch the NFL.

Jay Cutler is on pace for 40 TD's and 16 INT's over the course of a season that still has a lot of football left.

Some of you are fucking insane.

Thank you.

My next question... would this team be better (this year and last year) with Russell Wilson rather than Jay Cutler?

And two things I want to point out first... our offense has been HIGHLY productive this year and last year. Also, I am using RW in the question because he's the poster boy for "the mid-round guy you should have picked." The open secret on Wilson... the Seahawks thought he was only worth a fourth rounder and that Bruce Irvin would be WAY more impactful.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

Its far more than who was available when the bears were not even looking. They tried to sneak a late round pick to the practice squad last year to develop. They didnt try drafting any since they had jay.

Anotheridiot- I'm not sure what you're pointing out- And correct me if I'm wrong.
My logic is as follows:
I think we can all agree that the Chicago Bears believed they finally had their franchise QB in Jay Cutler- Why would they draft a high round QB, over the past 5 seasons- Why would they waste that pick, instead of helping him with Defense or a WR or OL...? It's possible that one of those guys pans out and has a good NFL career- but why would they do that if they already believed in Jay? (and traded a lot to get him) Why would they be looking?

They did with Jay the same they did with Slausen, Gold, Jennings, paid them retail. There were no discounts. I guess Emery is on the side of pay them to be elite. We will see how that works out in Cincinatti.

Players aren't going to give discounts. I think all those guys you mentioned would have gotten similar deals elsewhere- It was the market value. I also do not think Emery goes: Hmm I bet I can sign this guy for 20% less, but I'm going to pay them elite value anyway, I think they will get there someday.

I don't think our finance guy would be ok with that approach. I think all/most teams will pay a player based on: past success/future projection/market value... (That's why guys like Matt Flynn got HUGE $ in Seattle- after a little backup success, thinking he would project into a future starter, and based on who and what else was available with his experience)

 

[toooverbearing]

Dont know how this is gonna show, but can we blame a part of any of the losses on cutler when they failed to even score 20 points?

Year Date Winner Result Loser Attendance Location
2010 Monday, September 27 Chicago Bears 20–17 Green Bay Packers
2011 Sunday, January 2 Green Bay Packers 10–3 Chicago Bears
2011 Sunday, January 23* Green Bay Packers 21–14 Chicago Bears
2011 Sunday, September 25 Green Bay Packers 27–17 Chicago Bears
2011 Sunday, December 25 Green Bay Packers 35–21 Chicago Bears
2012 Thursday, September 13 Green Bay Packers 23–10 Chicago Bears
2012 Sunday, December 16 Green Bay Packers 21–13 Chicago Bears
2013 Monday, November 4 Chicago Bears 27–20 Green Bay Packers
2013 Sunday, December 29 Green Bay Packers 33–28 Chicago Bears
2014 Sunday, September 28 Green Bay Packers 38–17 Chicago Bears
2014 Sunday, November 9

Poor Jay. How about we blame the defense when they gave up over 21 and the offense when they could not manage to score 21? Would that make Jay a little responsible for poor play?

Honestly, before last year it was hard for me to blame Jay Cutler for many of our losses since the line and receivers were so crappy... but it was also hard for me to give him credit for many of our wins since our defense was really our edge. Now that we're into our second year with Trestman and JC is spinning some very good numbers, it's still hard for me to blame him for our losses when our defense is terrible, or credit for our wins when he has the coaching, line and skill position weapons that would be the envy of most qbs. I think his decision making has been improving but there is still some room for improvement and that's probably his last frontier for being an elite qb (he may or may not get over that hurdle). So I'm kinda in "wait and see" mode with him.

But one point... I don't think burning picks on qbs in the draft will be as fruitful as some think. It requires as much luck as it does skill or analysis. I have no problem at all with Emery trying to improve every other aspect of the team and seeing what Cutler can do with a more complete product. Its like a balloon where if you squeeze one section another section gets bigger... I feel like as soon as we improve one aspect of the team another aspect becomes flawed. It would be nice to see everything hitting on all cylinders at the same time (defense, offense, lines of scrimmage, skill positions, etc.).

 

[richig07]

Dont know how this is gonna show, but can we blame a part of any of the losses on cutler when they failed to even score 20 points?

Year Date Winner Result Loser Attendance Location
2010 Monday, September 27 Chicago Bears 20–17 Green Bay Packers
2011 Sunday, January 2 Green Bay Packers 10–3 Chicago Bears
2011 Sunday, January 23* Green Bay Packers 21–14 Chicago Bears
2011 Sunday, September 25 Green Bay Packers 27–17 Chicago Bears
2011 Sunday, December 25 Green Bay Packers 35–21 Chicago Bears
2012 Thursday, September 13 Green Bay Packers 23–10 Chicago Bears
2012 Sunday, December 16 Green Bay Packers 21–13 Chicago Bears
2013 Monday, November 4 Chicago Bears 27–20 Green Bay Packers
2013 Sunday, December 29 Green Bay Packers 33–28 Chicago Bears
2014 Sunday, September 28 Green Bay Packers 38–17 Chicago Bears
2014 Sunday, November 9

Poor Jay. How about we blame the defense when they gave up over 21 and the offense when they could not manage to score 21? Would that make Jay a little responsible for poor play?

What are you talking about? For chrissakes, you just fabricate shit. It's unreal.

EVERYONE blamed the offense up until last season for the Bears downfalls. Did you just start watching last year? Honest question. I'm starting to think you didn't. You constantly have shit completely incorrect when it comes to the past, especially with Cutler. Cutler was thrown into a shitstorm and solely blamed for both losses in 2010, week 17 and the NFCCG.

I mean, WTF dude…

 

[NCChiFan]

This is true, but...

GB was able to draft AR, the Cardinals have a rookie QB who is making waves, etc., etc. I understand it isn't easy, but somehow other teams manage to get decent QBs (GB for example) and the Bears continue to be a non factor in the QB game. Cutler is an indication of the real problem, and that is a storied history of bad GMs.

Just saying.

I hear you, and my references is to point to the belief on my part that Jay isn't Elite, but he isn't bad either. He is top 1/3rd and that is better than we've had in my life time. Would I love to see us draft an Aaron Rodgers, sure, who wouldn't. Stupid GreenBay just had to grab another HoF QB after a HoF QB they already had in Farve. Not fair. Only other example I can think of is SF when they got Young after years of Montana... Just not right. But, not just easy.

I hear what you're saying, hopefully we do find an answer... a real HoF QB yet in my life time. For now, let us all hope the Bears continue to give Jay weapons and.. and and and... find a stinking D coordinator who is capable.

 

[anotheridiot]

What are you talking about? For chrissakes, you just fabricate shit. It's unreal.

EVERYONE blamed the offense up until last season for the Bears downfalls. Did you just start watching last year? Honest question. I'm starting to think you didn't. You constantly have shit completely incorrect when it comes to the past, especially with Cutler. Cutler was thrown into a shitstorm and solely blamed for both losses in 2010, week 17 and the NFCCG.

I mean, WTF dude…

People were giving Briggs, Urlacher, Peppers record against the packers.

How exactly is posting the scores of the past 10 games fabricating shit? How is that "shit" completely incorrect?

Any time he throws a pick its the receivers fault. Its exhausting.

 

[toooverbearing]

I hear you, and my references is to point to the belief on my part that Jay isn't Elite, but he isn't bad either. He is top 1/3rd and that is better than we've had in my life time. Would I love to see us draft an Aaron Rodgers, sure, who wouldn't. Stupid GreenBay just had to grab another HoF QB after a HoF QB they already had in Farve. Not fair. Only other example I can think of is SF when they got Young after years of Montana... Just not right. But, not just easy.

I hear what you're saying, hopefully we do find an answer... a real HoF QB yet in my life time. For now, let us all hope the Bears continue to give Jay weapons and.. and and and... find a stinking D coordinator who is capable.

And just to pile on... the Colts get Luck right after Manning. Jerks.

 

[anotheridiot]

This is true, but...

GB was able to draft AR, the Cardinals have a rookie QB who is making waves, etc., etc. I understand it isn't easy, but somehow other teams manage to get decent QBs (GB for example) and the Bears continue to be a non factor in the QB game. Cutler is an indication of the real problem, and that is a storied history of bad GMs.

Just saying.

But when green bay drafted Rodgers, they had their elite QB. They had Rodgers sit for years. I am sure he was looked at as a wasted first round pick the years he didnt play. If we follow this logic, they should pick a QB next year to develop for the next two years cutler is guaranteed. Then you have a Washington type of decision, keep him or move one of them. Problem is the bears want to sneak a qb in the late rounds instead of picking a stud.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

But when green bay drafted Rodgers, they had their elite QB. They had Rodgers sit for years. I am sure he was looked at as a wasted first round pick the years he didnt play. If we follow this logic, they should pick a QB next year to develop for the next two years cutler is guaranteed. Then you have a Washington type of decision, keep him or move one of them. Problem is the bears want to sneak a qb in the late rounds instead of picking a stud.

Yes... I don't know much about the Packers history- but looking it up. I can argue that drafting Rodgers with a first round pick when they did was kinda dumb. It's worked out, but nobody knew that at the time.
Think about it- If they drafted any other position in the first round that year that player could have helped them more. It was a wasted pick at the time.

2005- Record 4-12: would a 1st round LB or OL helped that team? Maybe- Maybe Sherman wouldn't have been fired?
2006- McCarthy's first- Record 8-8.
2007- Record 13-3. Lost the NFC conf. game 23-20. I would think a 3rd year player who was drafted in 2005 could have had a bigger impact in that game. Maybe another superbowl performance for Favre?

2008- Rodgers first year as full starter... Record 6-10 Did him sitting for 3 years really help? Would he have gone 6-10 in 2005?

My point is you don't waste a 1st round pick on a player that sits for 3 years- when another position could have helped more at the time. That's why the Bears, thinking they have their guy, shouldn't waste a Top pick on a QB. What if he was a bust?

 

[wood20ks]

I have quite a bit to say on Jay... and the "fallout" each week the Bears lose a game. I have a thread in mind, but been busy and want to make this point and add to the discussion.

What I see more then anything is many people over analyze or put more into a game or play then I think he does. The generalization of Jay Cutler "loses focus" or "doesn't care" I believe is far from the truth. If you have listened to him honestly (without bias) he's said this many times- That it's about the next play. For better or worse he moves on. That's why we get multiple INT's or "bonehead" plays.
Once the One interception happens- he doesn't dwell on it. Next series or whatever, another play, another drive... It's possible it happens again. I'm not saying that's a good thing- or defending it in anyway. He needs to be more conservative when/after a bonehead INT happens. I just think that's his approach.
How do I know this? It's because that's what was taught to Elite QB's at two different QB school's in the late 90's/Early 2000's. And it's an educated guess.

I also think he's smarter then his actions. He's a football savant. (again, listen to what he's saying)
Cutler on the first pick: "It's a slant. If he jumps it, he jumps it. Most of the time in three-deep, he's not going to jump it." Asked what he could do to prevent that kind of pick, Cutler said, "Hope it doesn't fly in the air for 15 yards." (he added more to this on the air, but I couldn't find it in print)

It's a cerebral QB's issue when they watch lots of tape and "KNOW" what they are going to do. THEY NEVER have done this before so I can take a chance here or there. And then that safety does something out of the ordinary- or your WR isn't quite in the same spot you expected or whatever. You are left dumbfounded. Thinking- I KNOW I was right, I did the right thing...but it didn't work. (thus the smugness)

I also truly believe that Marshall ran the wrong route, an 18 yard hook (as Trestman said) needs to be thrown before the WR turns or breaks- The ball is already gone before Marshall decided to go deep. There is NO WAY to stop that. I still have nightmares of WR's STOPPING on slants or breaking too late or the wrong way on interceptions. It ends up looking awful to the fan, and blam- THAT QB SUCKS!

(Personally- 14 years later I can still see the 12 yrd option route to a TE- Option the LB and go opposite, I can see it clear as day the LB is flowing to the flat (not what is normal in that particular coverage) Leaving a huge void in the middle of the field- In 0.012 seconds I go through all the jubilation and excitement of winning the lotto- throw the ball to the void- The DUMBASS TE reads it wrong, goes with the LB... Free safety gets pulled that direction cause backside WR slipped and didn't occupy him, trots up and picks the ball all by himself- It looks like I threw it right to him. Nightmare. Later in film session TE get's chewed out. Fans don't see that, fans don't know the TE read it wrong.) That's why I defend QB's. Hardest position in sport.

Listen what any player says?.........nah. I`d rather rely on my eyes from what I`ve seen or to a hidden mic that was in the locker room to what players really think, than what any player or coach has to say on the air............And yes,those kinda of plays do happen.
I watch a shit load of football,but doesn`t it seem like that it should happen to ALL the qbs rather than just a few of them.
And it seems like it happens to him waaaay to often.

 

[wood20ks]

What game where you watching? Cutler resided over an offense with over 500 total yards. Yea, the Offense didn't "finish" all those drives, but the Bears never punted. There are all sorts of reasons for not winning that game, but Offense as a whole, wasn't the issue. So which Bear QB would you rather have? Let us list the last 30 years worth shall we, decide: Phipps... Evans.. Avellini... Landry.. Fuller... Tomczak...Flutie...Harbaugh...Willis...Furrer...Kramer... Walsh.. Krieg... Mirer... Stenstrom... Mareno... Matthews... McNown... Miller... Chandler... Burris... Stewart... Grossman.. Quinn... Krenzel... Hutchinson.. Orton... or Greise.

We act like finding a decent QB is an easy task... Those are all our QB's save 3 (McCown, Cutler and McMahon) over the last 30 years. My goodness what a suck ass list, and every stinking one of them is worse than Jay Cutler.

Sure is...........and soon Jay will be added to this list as well.