Is Trent Baalke Andy Reid 2.0

[whysies]

Whitner's best year in SF was easily 2011. In 2012 & 2013 his coverage was crap.

And if Brown has been so steady, why did he just sign for backup money in a 1-year deal? And you can't say it's his age because it was a 1-year deal. 1 year older than 2013 isn't going to be the difference between a good starter (2011) and a borderline starter / backup caliber guy (2013 / 2014).

And Rogers??? He was one of the best CBs in the NFL in 2011. He was a liability in 2013.

I can't possibly see how someone could argue the play of the secondary didn't decline sharply from 2011 to 2013. That's mind boggling to me.

My B broham, thought you were talking about a decline from 2012 to 2013, not a decline from 2011 to 2013

I will stand by what I said though regarding Whitner and Brown (not Rogers, 2011 was by far his best year, the bum). I think this past year was Whitner's best (particularly in coverage- not that that's necessarily saying much). And Brown was the same old steady, mediocre Brown all 3 of those years.

I think Rogers declined from 2011 to 2013 (heavy pockets tend to slow down DBs) but definitely not Brown or Whitner. They were the same replaceable cogs that they always were.

 

[supreme_clientele81]

Not trying to, but there is no way you can sneak a comment in like that and not expect it to get a response.

There is a way. You can ignore it. You have been on the bored in a while nas (at least posting) but any comment that sick makes about Kap just ignore it. It has been discussed ad nauseum and you won't change his mind and it is highly unlikely he will change yours.

So TL : DR any posts regarding Kap by sick ignore

 

[supreme_clientele81]

My B broham, thought you were talking about a decline from 2012 to 2013, not a decline from 2011 to 2013

I will stand by what I said though regarding Whitner and Brown (not Rogers, 2011 was by far his best year, the bum). I think this past year was Whitner's best (particularly in coverage- not that that's necessarily saying much). And Brown was the same old steady, mediocre Brown all 3 of those years.

I think Rogers declined from 2011 to 2013 (heavy pockets tend to slow down DBs) but definitely not Brown or Whitner. They were the same replaceable cogs that they always were.

I agree this year was Whitner's best year and it kind of makes you wonder if we would have not franchised Goholston would he have played better last year. It was amazing to me to see competent safety play out of Reid this year.

 

[NinerSickness]

Not trying to, but there is no way you can sneak a comment in like that and not expect it to get a response.

Fair enough. I'll just save any explanation / reply about #7 for another thread.

 

[NinerSickness]

There is a way. You can ignore it. You have been on the bored in a while nas (at least posting) but any comment that sick makes about Kap just ignore it. It has been discussed ad nauseum and you won't change his mind and it is highly unlikely he will change yours.

So TL : DR any posts regarding Kap by sick ignore

I'm not the only one who feels the way I do about Kaepernick SC81. If you ignore me you have to ignore a ton of other people. So how 'bout rather than dismissing the opinion as something out of left field we just say we'll keep the Kaepernick argument in one of the many Kaepernick threads?

 

[supreme_clientele81]

I'm not the only one who feels the way I do about Kaepernick SC81. If you ignore me you have to ignore a ton of other people. So how 'bout rather than dismissing the opinion as something out of left field we just say we'll keep the Kaepernick argument in one of the many Kaepernick threads?

Sick I didn't say you were the only one and I tend to ignore the people that have a different view on Kap than I do. And I wasn't saying to ignore everything you were saying cause you have a great feel for football and you watch tons more of college then I do so it helps me to see players you like/dislike and I can check them out and form my own opinion.

All I was saying to Nas since he hasn't been around is when it comes to Kap if you don't like your or others opinion ignore it so we don't have to have 49 pages of Kap sucks/Kap is great posts. I don't want this to become how it was at the old ESPN with every conversation turns into an Alex Smith word orgy where little football talk could see the light of day.

 

[NinerSickness]

Word.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

If he would've been the difference between the Niners being one of the best teams in the NFL in 2011 & 2012 and being the absolute best team in the NFL over those 2 seasons how could that possibly have been a mistake? They were in a perfect position to bust through their Super Bowl window, but they went into those seasons with an obvious weakness at WR. They tried to get something for nothing by signing Moss instead & went with crappy receivers (at least as starters) like Morgan, Kyle, Ted Ginn & Chad Hall.

And since when has Ozzie Newsome not been willing to screw the cap for short-term success? He signed a bunch of players like Shannon Sharpe, Sam Adams & others I'm sure I'm forgetting. Belichick added Rodney Harrison, Corey Dillon, Randy Moss, Audalius Thomas & others I'm sure I'm forgetting during years of his Super Bowl window.

Jerry Reese signed Antrel Rolle & David Baas to the biggest safety contract in history and one of the biggest center contracts in history respectively. They paid a 17.5 million dollar signing bounus (6 years, 42 million) to Chris Canty right after wining a Super Bowl.

I'm talking about when it's already clear the Niners are one of the 2 or 3 most talented teams in the NFL if not THE most talented. That's the time to buy; it's not the time to think about the future. It's not the time to go with obvious holes on the team & cross your fingers or try something cute like going after a washed-up Randy Moss. And by the time they finally addressed the issue with the Boldin trade, Rogers, Brown & Whitner all had sharp declines in their respective abilities / performances, and they settled with going into a potential SB-winning season with a mediocre secondary. They could've signed DRC Like I wanted 'em to last offseason. They could've traded for Darrelle Revis THIS offseason like I wanted 'em to. But they're happy to go with Culliver & Brock I guess. Excuse me if I'm not impressed.

I'm not saying they can't win a SB without adding that NOS at the finish line; what I'm saying is that they may have left a trophy or 2 on the table because of that strategy. Kaepernick is not good enough to win a SB without a legendary defense IMO. The Niners' defense is great, but it's not legendary (see the secondary).

A few thoughts. Making a big FA move going into 2011 is fairly unrealistic. I don't think many people expected us to be as good as we were. There is at least some argument for 2012, but you always conveniently leave Manningham off your lists of WRs. Now, Manningham isn't great by any means, but he was a solid second receiver prior to his injury, and head and shoulders above the replacements. And he brought in Boldin at a decent chunk of change last year. He couldn't know that Crabtree was going to tear his Achilles.

The whole declining secondary bit is ridiculous. Whitner and Brown were better this year than they were last year, so that kind of destroys your "declining secondary" theory. The biggest issue in 2012 was the injuries to Justin and Aldon killing our pass rush.

The biggest problem I have with your push for Wallace isn't with adding a high-priced FA. It's about adding a high-priced FA who is only a mediocre #1 receiver. Wallace would add a lot to this team, but his production wouldn't be worth his contract. And his attitude could have caused problems in the locker room. I'm not against making a splash. If we could have gotten Revis on the deal the Pats did, I'd almost certainly do it. I wouldn't have traded for him and paid him $16 million, though.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Whitner's best year in SF was easily 2011. In 2012 & 2013 his coverage was crap.

And if Brown has been so steady, why did he just sign for backup money in a 1-year deal? And you can't say it's his age because it was a 1-year deal. 1 year older than 2013 isn't going to be the difference between a good starter (2011) and a borderline starter / backup caliber guy (2013 / 2014).

And Rogers??? He was one of the best CBs in the NFL in 2011. He was a liability in 2013.

I can't possibly see how someone could argue the play of the secondary didn't decline sharply from 2011 to 2013. That's mind boggling to me.

Because they were better in 2013 than in 2012. So we're clearly not talking about a linear or clearly age-oriented decline. It's just possible that the drop in our pass rush following Justin Smith's injury caused the problems in the secondary.

 

[NinerSickness]

A few thoughts. Making a big FA move going into 2011 is fairly unrealistic. I don't think many people expected us to be as good as we were.

2011 pertained specifically to Steve Smith, and he was on the trading block in the middle of the season.

 

[NinerSickness]

Because they were better in 2013 than in 2012. So we're clearly not talking about a linear or clearly age-oriented decline. It's just possible that the drop in our pass rush following Justin Smith's injury caused the problems in the secondary.

No because I don't agree the secondary play was better in 2012 than it was in 2013. I think Whitner was bad both years & Rogers & Brown both steadily declined from the beginning of 2012 to the end of 2013.

Meanwhile the guy for whom I was screaming (DRC) played great, and he could've been the difference in 2013.

 

[bvanthielriceyoung]

Please explain these many different ways that we could've fit Revis under the cap without hurting our chances of resigning our own crucial soon to be free agents like Kaepernick, Crabtree, A.Smith and Iupati. I'm dying to hear this :rollseyes:

Salary Cap Calculator - Over the Cap

Rogers June 1st cut
Cut Blaine Gabbert
Cut Gore


There are a lot of different scenarios they could do

 

[Gold Rush 86]

Salary Cap Calculator - Over the Cap

Rogers June 1st cut
Cut Blaine Gabbert
Cut Gore


There are a lot of different scenarios they could do

I cut a bunch of players on that list I think wont make the team. I got the list down to 48 players and we had 20 million in cap space. I think we will have more than 5 from the draft make the team. We should easily have enough to sign our rookies and also give Kaep a big contract if need be.

 

[imac_21]

Salary Cap Calculator - Over the Cap

Rogers June 1st cut
Cut Blaine Gabbert
Cut Gore


There are a lot of different scenarios they could do

Making Rogers a June 1 cut means we don't get the savings until June 1. TB wasn't going to hold onto him that long due to roster bonuses. Would you just ask Revis really nicely to not sign with a team until June?

 

[bvanthielriceyoung]

Making Rogers a June 1 cut means we don't get the savings until June 1. TB wasn't going to hold onto him that long due to roster bonuses. Would you just ask Revis really nicely to not sign with a team until June?

Oh yeah. Dumb oversight by me.

 

[NinerSickness]

Baalke didn't do anything in the draft to change my mind about this. He drafted 12 players. 12.

 

[Jikkle]

Baalke didn't do anything in the draft to change my mind about this. He drafted 12 players. 12.

Too be fair 3 of them are likely going to the NFI which will make them more like 2015 picks.

But I do think we drafted too many guys and it is strange that we weren't more aggressive in trading up or at least grabbing more picks for next season.

 

[Bison645]

Just curious, who would have been a better option than Kaepernick at QB since we drafted him? Gabbert? Ponder? Dalton? Mallet? Any of the Scrubs drafted last year? The only young QB at Kaepernick's level is Luck, and we had no shot at him. Wilson?
Kaepernick nearly beat his team in Seattle, In the biggest game in Seahawk history, and until that tipped pass in the endzone, Kaepernick was dominating the number 1 defense in the NFL on the road. Not to mention he has beaten Rodgers, on the road, and at home, in the playoffs. Brees in his second start in New Orleans, Ryan On the road, in the playoffs. The number 1 QB drafted in 2011, on the road, in the playoffs.
Kaepernick nearly led his team to a superbowl win, his first season starting, throwing to Crabtree, Davis, and a bunch of scrubs. Nearly went to the superbowl two years in a row, throwing to Boldin, Davis, and a bunch of scrubs.
I really don't want to hijack a thread, but c'mon now, Kaepernick is pretty close to surpassing steve young as the Niners all time second best QB, in only his 4th season. I just don't understand the hate.
By the way, Baalke has finally surrounded his young, STAR QB with talented receivers (Johnson, Boldin, Crabtree, and Davis. Found a replacement for Snyder (thank you lord), and Largely kept the team intact. Maybe I'm just a coolaid drinker, but who is the better QB that was or is available, and who is the better gm to go get him?

 

[NinerSickness]

I really don't want to hijack a thread, but c'mon now, Kaepernick is pretty close to surpassing steve young as the Niners all time second best QB, in only his 4th season.

 

[Flyingiguana]

I dont think Kaep is overrated at all. He is a good QB but he will have to improve and win a SB to get over the hump to even be talked about in that next level.

he has to stop choking