Is Steve Young right?

[vvoland]

We don't have a boatload of top-10 talent, but neither does GB outside of Rodgers and Jennings, or the Saints outside of Brees and Graham, or the Pats outside of Brady and Gronkowski. We have a nice 1-2 punch at RB with Gore and Hunter. Davis and Walker are very good receiving TEs. Davis has reverted to his early-career inconsistencies, but we know he can play much better ball. Edwards has been a very effective receiver in his career. Crabtree has come on the past few weeks and shows some signs of becoming a good, if perhaps not great WR. Kyle Williams has been very dynamic in two of the last three games. And these guys complement each other well, as I mentioned in the KW thread. The OL has tremendous physical talent. Perhaps more importantly, outside of QB we don't have a glaring weakness. I think there is more than enough there for this team to be a good one on offense. But we have a long way to go.

Re: Smith, I think it's a combination of a number of things that continues to hold him back. I do think his deep ball accuracy will limit his effectiveness, and some of that seems to be a product of his arm strength. He's still not great at anticipating routes. His pocket presence is still mediocre. He doesn't do a great job of reading the blitz and exploiting it. Now, many of these things have improved this year, some dramatically. But at the end of the day, IMO it still adds up to him being an average QB who is miles behind the best in the league. And when it comes to the playoffs, that's going to be measuring stick.

the last two things i bolded seem to be a huge contradiction. an average QB and a glaring weakness seem incompatible. i'll agree that he's not brady, brees, or rodgers.. but so far, he hasn't had to be. do you, like deep, think he's done improving? considering the leap he's taken this year, i think he has miles to go.

the other parts in bold, while i'll agree with all of them in theory, are not something to further your argument. in fact, i think it speaks to my point that we've been incredibly inconsistent in all aspects of our offense this year, except QB. smith has been remarkably steady, especially considering his bi-polar performances from years past. from one game to the next, i never knew what to expect and the entire game hinged on his performance. this year, i know exactly what he'll give and my biggest concern is usually pass protection.

and that, is the glaring weakness on this team. smith has trouble exploiting the blitz, but i'm not sure how much of that is smith and how much of that is the playcalling. everyone and their brother was calling for a couple of screenpasses in the ravens game to keep the d honest. i, along with a few posters, also thought the no-huddle would be a good deterrent to a team that sends multiple blitzers. but that's not for smith to call, all he can do is audible, and even there, i'm not sure how much freedom he has. the o-line has tremendous talent, and as i said in my previous response to deep, they'll get much better over time, but they're so inconsistent. we've had games with 5 or more sacks and games where smith comes out in the end with a brand new jersey. smith may be average [or a bit below] at exploiting the blitz but our o-line seems hapless against basic stunts and zone blitzes.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

the last two things i bolded seem to be a huge contradiction. an average QB and a glaring weakness seem incompatible. i'll agree that he's not brady, brees, or rodgers.. but so far, he hasn't had to be. do you, like deep, think he's done improving? considering the leap he's taken this year, i think he has miles to go.

the other parts in bold, while i'll agree with all of them in theory, are not something to further your argument. in fact, i think it speaks to my point that we've been incredibly inconsistent in all aspects of our offense this year, except QB. smith has been remarkably steady, especially considering his bi-polar performances from years past. from one game to the next, i never knew what to expect and the entire game hinged on his performance. this year, i know exactly what he'll give and my biggest concern is usually pass protection.

and that, is the glaring weakness on this team. smith has trouble exploiting the blitz, but i'm not sure how much of that is smith and how much of that is the playcalling. everyone and their brother was calling for a couple of screenpasses in the ravens game to keep the d honest. i, along with a few posters, also thought the no-huddle would be a good deterrent to a team that sends multiple blitzers. but that's not for smith to call, all he can do is audible, and even there, i'm not sure how much freedom he has. the o-line has tremendous talent, and as i said in my previous response to deep, they'll get much better over time, but they're so inconsistent. we've had games with 5 or more sacks and games where smith comes out in the end with a brand new jersey. smith may be average [or a bit below] at exploiting the blitz but our o-line seems hapless against basic stunts and zone blitzes.

I don't think Smith is done improving, but I question how much farther he can go, especially without an offseason. I can't really say at this point what the future holds, but I'm not expecting him to be much better than he has been this season. And his performance has generally been steady, it just hasn't been great. QB is a glaring weakness because it's the QB. Our offense will never be favored in a matchup against one of the top guys for that reason.

The OL has struggled mightily at times, but they've also played quite well at times. They kept the Giants fairly well in check, and put together a string of good games prior to the Baltimore debacle. There's no doubt that they will have to show improvement, individually and as a unit, in order for us to achieve our potential, though.

 

[threelittleturds]

crimson and i have debated alex smith's merits in this thread but i'll certainly agree with him that his offense has great potential. our O-line is one of the youngest in the league, a. smith can definitely improve further, and our WR corps have been very inconsistent and riddled with injuries. if edwards is back in time to build some rapport with smith pre-playoffs, if JH opens up the playbook a bit further during, what should be, our 1st round bye, we should improve greatly on O.

further, the biggest piece missing this season was the lack of a training camp. smith and JH both seem very cerebral. i don't think they'll call/execute a play unless they're very confident that all 11 guys are on the same page. next year, with the same cast of characters, this offense will be far better than this year. i still hope for a gamebreaker at WR because they're more common and easier to find than brady, brees, or rodgers. outside of those three, i don't think a. smith is a huge downgrade from anyone else in this league.. [newton is more talented but not polished enough yet..]

Good points. It is pretty easy to forget that this is everyone's first year in this system, and we're holding them to the high efficiency of the Saints, Patriots or Packers offenses.. all of which have been running the same system with the same coaches for 4+ years. Most players on those teams have played in nothing but those systems, while most of the guys on the 49ers offense have been in 4 or 5 systems.

 

[Geraint]

considering the lack of continuity [not just OC & systems, but also the receiving corps] what leads you to believe that? i've heard the 'he'd have taken it by now' about alex smith since his 2nd or 3rd year. you don't think an off-season with a coach like JH, building great rapport with all of his WR, getting more explosive playmakers at wideout, or the o-line getting better in pass protection will help him elevate his play? he's been far better and more consistent this year than years past. yet, you seem to think there's no more room for improvement? how much better would his stats look and this offense would be if he didn't have so many drops on such big plays? the crabs drop on 3rd down and v.d.'s TD last night were in that one game. each game there seems to be critical drops or balls that bounce for picks..

as far as the o-line goes, since all of last season sound like a really long time, but they're rookies and davis was one of the youngest players in that draft playing tackle. with a new center and the hole we have at RG, i don't think the pieces were really there for them to playing like pro-bowlers at this point. that said, iupati is GREAT in run blocking and davis has had some verrrry good games this year. its about putting that together for long stretches, not short spurts, and i do think another year, TC, and more reps will definitely help. just look at the leap davis took this year. he was atrocious last year and has been pretty good this year [great at times, sub-par at other times]. why do you think he'll stop progressing? why do you assume iupati has peaked [especially in pass protection]? why do you think fixing our problems at RG won't help the line overall?

i know some of these statements contradict my 'with the same players' statement from the earlier post. but we obviously will have a draft and should attract a few FAs so, in reality, there should be some upgrade in talent. but even if all of those players are on D, you don't think TC for edwards, crabs, smith, and the o-line will help with confidence, understanding, and execution?

Not surprising that people are saying and will continue saying Smith cant get any better. Thats the broken record which has been playing every season. He is not NFL material, worst no.1 pick ever etc. This year he has easily disproved that bullshit so they are changing their approach to micro analysing every one of his faults and comparing to the best one in the league. He can never improve on anything, he is incapable of learning. Even a trained monkey displays more intelligence than Smith. Being negative is the only thing that keeps them going. Heck its not easy having completely written him off only to see him growing with the team.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Not surprising that people are saying and will continue saying Smith cant get any better. Thats the broken record which has been playing every season. He is not NFL material, worst no.1 pick ever etc. This year he has easily disproved that bullshit so they are changing their approach to micro analysing every one of his faults and comparing to the best one in the league. He can never improve on anything, he is incapable of learning. Even a trained monkey displays more intelligence than Smith. Being negative is the only thing that keeps them going. Heck its not easy having completely written him off only to see him growing with the team.

You're an idiot.

 

[MHSL82]

We don't have a boatload of top-10 talent, but neither does GB outside of Rodgers and Jennings, or the Saints outside of Brees and Graham, or the Pats outside of Brady and Gronkowski. We have a nice 1-2 punch at RB with Gore and Hunter. Davis and Walker are very good receiving TEs. Davis has reverted to his early-career inconsistencies, but we know he can play much better ball. Edwards has been a very effective receiver in his career. Crabtree has come on the past few weeks and shows some signs of becoming a good, if perhaps not great WR. Kyle Williams has been very dynamic in two of the last three games. And these guys complement each other well, as I mentioned in the KW thread. The OL has tremendous physical talent. Perhaps more importantly, outside of QB we don't have a glaring weakness. I think there is more than enough there for this team to be a good one on offense. But we have a long way to go.

Re: Smith, I think it's a combination of a number of things that continues to hold him back. I do think his deep ball accuracy will limit his effectiveness, and some of that seems to be a product of his arm strength. He's still not great at anticipating routes. His pocket presence is still mediocre. He doesn't do a great job of reading the blitz and exploiting it. Now, many of these things have improved this year, some dramatically. But at the end of the day, IMO it still adds up to him being an average QB who is miles behind the best in the league. And when it comes to the playoffs, that's going to be measuring stick.

Arm strength - this seems to vacillate between accuracy and arm strength. When one is supported, the other as an issue is maximized. I think he has plenty of arm strength to do what we need him to do (not his strength but sufficient), it's a matter of getting chemistry, confidence, and working on accuracy. I wouldn't say he's accurate on the deep ball. But when he does throw it deep, often overthrowing the receiver, I wouldn't change my stance to accuracy, as that had been the issue regardless.

Blitz - he has been one of the best QBs this year when it comes to the blitz (five or more). Where he's been poorer is when there's a man that gets through on a four man rush. The reasoning should be obvious, it's like amnesia. When the oline is a revolving door, he is still sitting in the pocket trying to get the throw. He isn't checking out of it quick enough because he for some reason thinks the oline will protect. Sometimes you need amnesia to be patient and sit strong. Sometimes you need to change the play or fire quickly. When there's a five man rush, he has done well in changing the play or firing quickly. He has prepared himself and plans accordingly. What you can't have is a bad oline and a QB not acknowledging their bad play (unless its a do or die, need a big play situation). The oline needs to do better and Smith needs to realize when they aren't doing it. As you said, he has improved, sometimes dramatically, and one of them is pocket presence. He has a big way to go still. He needs to make it a focus to escape because I don't believe focusing will make him try to be like Vick, but rather be more dimensional.

As for where that leaves us for the playoffs, I think Smith has limitations but he also is open for adapting and soaking in what he's learned. That has always been a positive for him. I will wait and see before I say he can't do it or stubbornly say he can, but will concede that without doing it, we're in trouble.

 

[Flyingiguana]

Good points. It is pretty easy to forget that this is everyone's first year in this system, and we're holding them to the high efficiency of the Saints, Patriots or Packers offenses.. all of which have been running the same system with the same coaches for 4+ years. Most players on those teams have played in nothing but those systems, while most of the guys on the 49ers offense have been in 4 or 5 systems.

i'd say 2 or 3 systems since i count the past couple years as .5

i'm still hoping the offense improves and starts to click better before the playoffs. the training wheels are still on the offense, but with our d and considering we're winning, i'm a happy camper so far.

 

[Geraint]

You're an idiot.

The fking idiot is yourself and the one who says Alex Smith is incapable of improving

 

[Crimsoncrew]

The fking idiot is yourself and the one who says Alex Smith is incapable of improving

I never said that. You clearly have no context or experience with many of the posters on this board. I have defended Smith as vocally as anyone other than seksi (now flyingiguana I believe) effectively since he was drafted. That doesn't mean I'm thrilled with his play and blind to his shortcomings.

Smith can continue to improve, but in my estimation he's unlikely to be a great player at the position. I would think that would be apparent to anyone who has watched him for nearly seven years now. I'm not ruling it out, I'm just not holding my breath. I want a great QB. Until Smith or Kaepernick prove otherwise, we have to act as if QB is a need. And until Smith stops making significant mistakes - missing open receivers, taking sacks he shouldn't, etc. - I will continue to point them out.

The new breed of Smith lover - and I only apply that to two or three people on this board - is every bit as bad as the Smith haters from the old board.

 

[Geraint]

The attitude to Smith has always been about what he cant do rather than what he can do. At the start of this season he was incapable of almost everything. Now its apparent to almost everyone that he can do most things at least. Nice assumption that I dont know any of these idiotic posters. I have also seen the Espn forum for a number of seasons and the number of faults attributed to Smith were infinite. He has allegedly had a weak arm that cant make throws over 20 yds (remarkably similar to Shaun Hill), although this season he has suddenly started making 40 yd throws down field and his arm seems to have miraculously got stronger in one season. He supposedly had incurable nerves and was incapable of using the pocket and his only solution to blitzes was running for the sideline. As soon as he improves on one seemingly unfixable weakness, they come up with a new one. The same neverending broken record. Of course its not as cool to be a supporter than a constant whining critic.

 

[deep9er]

I never said that. You clearly have no context or experience with many of the posters on this board. I have defended Smith as vocally as anyone other than seksi (now flyingiguana I believe) effectively since he was drafted. That doesn't mean I'm thrilled with his play and blind to his shortcomings.

Smith can continue to improve, but in my estimation he's unlikely to be a great player at the position. I would think that would be apparent to anyone who has watched him for nearly seven years now. I'm not ruling it out, I'm just not holding my breath. I want a great QB. Until Smith or Kaepernick prove otherwise, we have to act as if QB is a need. And until Smith stops making significant mistakes - missing open receivers, taking sacks he shouldn't, etc. - I will continue to point them out.

The new breed of Smith lover - and I only apply that to two or three people on this board - is every bit as bad as the Smith haters from the old board.

agree Smith can continue to improve...a LITTLE. at very least he'll improve a little statistically, just by who we finish against.

also agree he won't be a great player, granted i'm not keeping it open. my description is 'he maxed out', but the idea is the same.....he's not taking the next step to 'great player at the position'.

but this is where you confuse me, we agree on these two huge points yet you believe this offense has 'great' potential? this HAS a little more potential, just not 'great' with this QB.

 

[deep9er]

The attitude to Smith has always been about what he cant do rather than what he can do. At the start of this season he was incapable of almost everything. Now its apparent to almost everyone that he can do most things at least. Nice assumption that I dont know any of these idiotic posters. I have also seen the Espn forum for a number of seasons and the number of faults attributed to Smith were infinite. He has allegedly had a weak arm that cant make throws over 20 yds (remarkably similar to Shaun Hill), although this season he has suddenly started making 40 yd throws down field and his arm seems to have miraculously got stronger in one season. He supposedly had incurable nerves and was incapable of using the pocket and his only solution to blitzes was running for the sideline. As soon as he improves on one seemingly unfixable weakness, they come up with a new one. The same neverending broken record. Of course its not as cool to be a supporter than a constant whining critic.

good point and here's my OPINION........

for the here and now, even rest of this season, VERY happy he's doing what he's doing. no matter what each of us think to date, VERY happy he's playing at this level, got us 10 wins.

looking ahead to play-offs and seasons beyond, the expectations are now astronomical. so when looking at the QB spot, the expectations has risen above Alex's capability. this is where we start to look at what he can't do.

 

[MHSL82]

good point and here's my OPINION........

for the here and now, even rest of this season, VERY happy he's doing what he's doing. no matter what each of us think to date, VERY happy he's playing at this level, got us 10 wins.

looking ahead to play-offs and seasons beyond, the expectations are now astronomical. so when looking at the QB spot, the expectations has risen above Alex's capability. this is where we start to look at what he can't do.

Bah. I know I said I'd shut up but since it's no longer about how things are worded but rather opinion, I think it's ok to state my opinion. That type of discussion is appropriate here, not how you qualify things, etc.

I think the expectations have risen above where he's playing right now. If he doesn't raise his level of play, he'll need to be replaced. Needing consistency isn't as strong of an issue as where that level of consistency is. However, having said that, I will and think others should reserve judgment on what his capabilities are. I think that it is safe, as you suggest, to have him bridge another year, but I would be looking at what he isn't doing this year and looking at what he can't do next year. I just don't trust the previous systems or coaches - and the lockout, despite our success, really has had an effect on some things. I think he'll improve beyond just everybody improving.

Everyone has limits, and if we were to talk numbers, fine. He can't throw a 70 yarder and 60 would be stretching it. But when we're talking generally like a weak arm, no deep plays, panic in the pocket, etc. I think we should hold off. He won't fool us. He'll show it or he won't in the next year and a half. We've seen what bad coaching can do and we've seen how we've had to hold back because of no offseason. So I don't think we've seen what he's capable of. We've seen where he's at right now. That may be where he peaks, it may not. And yes, I know you've said he'll improve, but I take that to be minimal. I'm saying it's an x-factor with a range of options, some surprising and some perhaps disappointing.

We of course should get whoever is practical in the draft, work Kaep hard, and if someone becomes available that's better, than go for it. I don't think he's going to jump to the number one QB in the league, but what exactly are his capabilities when coached isn't as safe to say. Put him on Rodgers team his numbers wouldn't be as good as Rodgers and may have more INTs, but his overall numbers may be higher. Put him on the Dolphins, I think he'd head to the bench soon with that coach and personnel. Right now.

That doesn't mean we can't with a good supporting cast challenge for years to come with what Alex could improve to be. He has this opportunity because of how good the team and coaching staff are right now. He potentially could improve to be good enough to help a Dolphin like team, but not where he's at right now. If this is Alex's peak, then sure, we're just buying time. I'm glad we're going to have an opportunity to see him in the playoffs, knock on wood (health-wise), I'm glad we have Harbaugh, and I'm glad we'll have an offseason. I feel then we'll see where his capabilities are. Plus, everyone else for the most part will be better.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

The attitude to Smith has always been about what he cant do rather than what he can do. At the start of this season he was incapable of almost everything. Now its apparent to almost everyone that he can do most things at least. Nice assumption that I dont know any of these idiotic posters. I have also seen the Espn forum for a number of seasons and the number of faults attributed to Smith were infinite. He has allegedly had a weak arm that cant make throws over 20 yds (remarkably similar to Shaun Hill), although this season he has suddenly started making 40 yd throws down field and his arm seems to have miraculously got stronger in one season. He supposedly had incurable nerves and was incapable of using the pocket and his only solution to blitzes was running for the sideline. As soon as he improves on one seemingly unfixable weakness, they come up with a new one. The same neverending broken record. Of course its not as cool to be a supporter than a constant whining critic.

Those aren't THESE posters. Those posters were left on the old board and have been barred from coming here. The posters on this board may have criticized Smith, but they have done so reasonably and fairly on the whole. And as said, the fact that you're not willing to accept rational criticism makes you as bad as the Smith haters on the ESPN board.

Very few people on this board are whining about Smith. He has far exceeded the expectations of most this year, as has the team as a whole. But as Matt Williamson said, this team with Eli at QB, for instance, would be arguably the best in the league. With Brees, Brady, or Rodgers, they'd probably be super bowl favorites. I don't think you can say that about any other one-player switch on the team. So yes, I would say QB is still the glaring weakness on the offensive side of ball.

 

[deep9er]

Bah. I know I said I'd shut up but since it's no longer about how things are worded but rather opinion, I think it's ok to state my opinion. That type of discussion is appropriate here, not how you qualify things, etc.

I think the expectations have risen above where he's playing right now. If he doesn't raise his level of play, he'll need to be replaced. Needing consistency isn't as strong of an issue as where that level of consistency is. However, having said that, I will and think others should reserve judgment on what his capabilities are. I think that it is safe, as you suggest, to have him bridge another year, but I would be looking at what he isn't doing this year and looking at what he can't do next year. I just don't trust the previous systems or coaches - and the lockout, despite our success, really has had an effect on some things. I think he'll improve beyond just everybody improving.

Everyone has limits, and if we were to talk numbers, fine. He can't throw a 70 yarder and 60 would be stretching it. But when we're talking generally like a weak arm, no deep plays, panic in the pocket, etc. I think we should hold off. He won't fool us. He'll show it or he won't in the next year and a half. We've seen what bad coaching can do and we've seen how we've had to hold back because of no offseason. So I don't think we've seen what he's capable of. We've seen where he's at right now. That may be where he peaks, it may not. And yes, I know you've said he'll improve, but I take that to be minimal. I'm saying it's an x-factor with a range of options, some surprising and some perhaps disappointing.

We of course should get whoever is practical in the draft, work Kaep hard, and if someone becomes available that's better, than go for it. I don't think he's going to jump to the number one QB in the league, but what exactly are his capabilities when coached isn't as safe to say. Put him on Rodgers team his numbers wouldn't be as good as Rodgers and may have more INTs, but his overall numbers may be higher. Put him on the Dolphins, I think he'd head to the bench soon with that coach and personnel. Right now.

That doesn't mean we can't with a good supporting cast challenge for years to come with what Alex could improve to be. He has this opportunity because of how good the team and coaching staff are right now. He potentially could improve to be good enough to help a Dolphin like team, but not where he's at right now. If this is Alex's peak, then sure, we're just buying time. I'm glad we're going to have an opportunity to see him in the playoffs, knock on wood (health-wise), I'm glad we have Harbaugh, and I'm glad we'll have an offseason. I feel then we'll see where his capabilities are. Plus, everyone else for the most part will be better.

ok this is reasonable, MAYBE with a full off-season he can generate more continuity? i'll TRY not to post "he's maxed out" any more.

again, for the here and now, even rest of this season, i'm VERY glad for how he's played. no matter what that level is and no matter what happens rest of this season, i'm very glad we got this far.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

agree Smith can continue to improve...a LITTLE. at very least he'll improve a little statistically, just by who we finish against.

also agree he won't be a great player, granted i'm not keeping it open. my description is 'he maxed out', but the idea is the same.....he's not taking the next step to 'great player at the position'.

but this is where you confuse me, we agree on these two huge points yet you believe this offense has 'great' potential? this HAS a little more potential, just not 'great' with this QB.

I think the OL has been incredibly inconsistent. When they play well, we can run and pass block against very good teams. This is unrealized potential. The receivers, especially Edwards and Davis lately, have been wildly inconsistent. That is strange, as both of these guys can play at a pro bowl caliber level. That is unrealized potential. Gore has been completely eliminated from the passing game after six years of being a dangerous receiver out of the backfield. That is unrealized potential.

The potential I see in this team has less to do with Smith than it does with his supporting cast. Obviously a jump from Smith would make the biggest difference, but it's also the least likely to happen mid-season. I don't necessarily think the same is true of the rest, especially the receivers. This team will not have what you apparently term a "super bowl caliber offense" at any time this year. But they can definitely get much better than they have been to date.

 

[MW49ers5]

I think the OL has been incredibly inconsistent. When they play well, we can run and pass block against very good teams. This is unrealized potential. The receivers, especially Edwards and Davis lately, have been wildly inconsistent. That is strange, as both of these guys can play at a pro bowl caliber level. That is unrealized potential. Gore has been completely eliminated from the passing game after six years of being a dangerous receiver out of the backfield. That is unrealized potential.

The potential I see in this team has less to do with Smith than it does with his supporting cast. Obviously a jump from Smith would make the biggest difference, but it's also the least likely to happen mid-season. I don't necessarily think the same is true of the rest, especially the receivers. This team will not have what you apparently term a "super bowl caliber offense" at any time this year. But they can definitely get much better than they have been to date.

Gotta quickly correct the bold - Gore's lack of pass catching is not unrealized potential at all. It has been carefully compromised to help Smith realize his potential. I hope that makes sense.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Gotta quickly correct the bold - Gore's lack of pass catching is not unrealized potential at all. It has been carefully compromised to help Smith realize his potential. I hope that makes sense.

That's likely part of it, but Gore has also had just awful hands this year, dropping four balls that were pretty much spot-on. I suspect that if he had done a nicer job catching those, we'd be throwing to him more often whether via playcalls or as an outlet receiver.

 

[Geraint]

Very few people on this board are whining about Smith. He has far exceeded the expectations of most this year, as has the team as a whole. But as Matt Williamson said, this team with Eli at QB, for instance, would be arguably the best in the league. With Brees, Brady, or Rodgers, they'd probably be super bowl favorites. I don't think you can say that about any other one-player switch on the team. So yes, I would say QB is still the glaring weakness on the offensive side of ball.

You might have been right about very few people whining at the start of the season, but right after the Ravens game the whining has increased rapidly. So-called patience with a young team has been replaced with QB fixation. Just look at the gameday thread against Rams. Its a 26-0 shutout and there was continuous whining about how bad the offense is. As the wins pile up the negativity is also being ramped up.

" He has far exceeded the expectations of most?" As I have said before, not hard to do that when expectation is zero. Only fans with a tiny memory would look at him and think he is incapable of doing much better than he did under Nolan and Sing. When one thinks he is the worst no.1 pick ever, of course they would be shocked that he can be a decent starter and cut down on the errors.

Are we actually talking about Eli now??? Before his SB wonder pass, most of the "fans" would have run him out of town. Look at the 49ers-Giants game, he still made an error which might have cost them the game. If that had been Alex Smith, there would been a lot of fans who would have been rushing to say i told you so.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

You might have been right about very few people whining at the start of the season, but right after the Ravens game the whining has increased rapidly. So-called patience with a young team has been replaced with QB fixation. Just look at the gameday thread against Rams. Its a 26-0 shutout and there was continuous whining about how bad the offense is. As the wins pile up the negativity is also being ramped up.

" He has far exceeded the expectations of most?" As I have said before, not hard to do that when expectation is zero. Only fans with a tiny memory would look at him and think he is incapable of doing much better than he did under Nolan and Sing. When one thinks he is the worst no.1 pick ever, of course they would be shocked that he can be a decent starter and cut down on the errors.

Are we actually talking about Eli now??? Before his SB wonder pass, most of the "fans" would have run him out of town. Look at the 49ers-Giants game, he still made an error which might have cost them the game. If that had been Alex Smith, there would been a lot of fans who would have been rushing to say i told you so.

The offense played poorly this week. Don't know what to tell you. It wasn't all Smith by any means, though I thought he struggled quite a bit early on. We couldn't score in the red zone (we're now 30th in that area, I believe) and missed at least golden three opportunities for big plays.

I can't speak for other people, but I have always believed Smith could play the way he's playing now. I was admittedly skeptical he would this year given the short turnaround, but nothing he's done this year has blown me away. Perhaps that's part of the problem. Smith has done nearly everything that has been asked of him, but that hasn't been much. We'll see what happens the rest of the way, and in the playoffs in particular. I think we'll struggle to win a game playing the way we have been lately on offense unless the D has a great game.

As for Eli, he is still prone to stupid mistakes, and that's what's keeping him just short of elite level IMO. But the level he's been playing at this year is, on the whole, a higher level than I believe Smith is capable of achieving. I may be wrong, but Smith can't make some of the throws that Eli made against us, and has made throughout the year. He's still not perfect, but he's been carrying his team this year. Maybe Smith can do the same after a year or two in this system, but I have my doubts. I'd like nothing more than for him to prove me wrong, though. And as long as our offense continues to struggle, I will continue to criticize it.

What's rich about this conversation is that I've got Deep telling me I think too highly of Smith, and you telling me I think too little of him. Reminds me of a conversation I had a couple years ago with Mackdown and someone else, possibly Seksi. It's possible - probably crazy, I realize - that you're taking an extreme position.