Is Steve Young right?

[iHATEdodgers]

I think this TEAM is SB caliber. This offense is obviously not the greatest but it's good enough in conjunction with this D.

SO yeah I guess the offense is then Superbowl caliber whatever that means.

 

[Geraint]

we just won 26-0 and ppl are busy crying and whining

 

[imac_21]

we just won 26-0 and ppl are busy crying and whining

No, people are discussing the skills of our QB. If you can't tell the difference between a discussion and whining, I feel bad for you.

If you feel that any criticism of Alex Smith is hating and uncalled for, you're an idiot.

This has become a conversation about Smith's ability to throw the deep ball. Stating that he doesn't throw it well is hating?

As I said earlier, GTFO.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

how bout the one davis just dropped? beautiful pass into the breadbasket and he just butterfingered the whole thing..

Agreed. Smith had two great deep balls down the middle of the field today. He also had at least two just terrible sideline passes to Ginn, balls that landed several yards out of bounds.

 

[Flyingiguana]

No, people are discussing the skills of our QB. If you can't tell the difference between a discussion and whining, I feel bad for you.

If you feel that any criticism of Alex Smith is hating and uncalled for, you're an idiot.

This has become a conversation about Smith's ability to throw the deep ball. Stating that he doesn't throw it well is hating?

As I said earlier, GTFO.

he hits guys in the hands and they drop it...

 

[Crimsoncrew]

i would bet most people here would be closer to my definition than yours? i'm surprised you think our offense IS SB caliber?

i'm not restricting it to passing, just taken as a whole our offense isn't good enough, and it doesn't have "great" potential. i'm ok with the scheme cause you're right, i'm ok with 50/50. but we just don't have enough talent yet.

again, not complaining for now and for this season, but if we look ahead we'll need a better QB first of all.

I never said we had a SB caliber offense. I asked you to define a SB caliber offense, and gave you some examples of actual SB teams that had offenses that were statistically similar to ours.

As far as I can tell, according to you, only three teams in the league have super bowl caliber offenses. How is this possible? Can a team without a super bowl caliber offense make the super bowl? Or do you mean something else when you use that phrase? Again, please define SB caliber offense in some sort of semi-concrete fashion, or just concede that it's a meaningless term. Or is this going to be the new "sub-par draft?"

 

[Flyingiguana]

Missed Ginn badly again. This time on the other sideline.

At least by throwing these 10 yards out of bounds they won't get intercepted.

maybe smith thinks he's in the cfl

 

[Crimsoncrew]

the hate died down for a few weeks as they got used to the unusual feeling of winning games every week now its back as good as ever just with a new disguise of not being SB calibre

What hate? I have defended Smith since day one, but he is not a great QB. And his struggles with the deep ball have hurt us. It was great to see him throw them today, and he would have had great results if Davis had brought that one in. But he also missed badly repeatedly.

 

[imac_21]

he hits guys in the hands and they drop it...

Why are you even trying in this thread? Actually, are you even trying? It's been said MULTIPLE times that he throws well down the middle of the field and struggles outside the numbers.

Please keep up.

 

[Geraint]

No, people are discussing the skills of our QB. If you can't tell the difference between a discussion and whining, I feel bad for you.

If you feel that any criticism of Alex Smith is hating and uncalled for, you're an idiot.

This has become a conversation about Smith's ability to throw the deep ball. Stating that he doesn't throw it well is hating?

As I said earlier, GTFO.

only question i have is are the owners going to pay what it takes to get someone who can make ppl like you cream their pants with every throw

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I think this TEAM is SB caliber. This offense is obviously not the greatest but it's good enough in conjunction with this D.

SO yeah I guess the offense is then Superbowl caliber whatever that means.

See, that's the problem right there. Deep doesn't even know what he means.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

he hits guys in the hands and they drop it...

And he has guys wide open down the sidelines and he misses them by eight yards. Out of bounds.

 

[iHATEdodgers]

What hate? I have defended Smith since day one, but he is not a great QB. And his struggles with the deep ball have hurt us. It was great to see him throw them today, and he would have had great results if Davis had brought that one in. But he also missed badly repeatedly.

He only threw 6 incompletions including VDs drop and Crabtree's drop, so I wouldn't say he repeatedly missed badly. Those two down the sideline to Ginn were not very good passes, so 2 out of 23 passes I think is pretty damn good.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

only question i have is are the owners going to pay what it takes to get someone who can make ppl like you cream their pants with every throw

Generally you can't pay for someone like that. You have to draft them and groom them.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

He only threw 6 incompletions including VDs drop and Crabtree's drop, so I wouldn't say he repeatedly missed badly. Those two down the sideline to Ginn were not very good passes, so 2 out of 23 passes I think is pretty damn good.

Twice is repeatedly. Smith had an ok game today. Not a great one. He threw two great deep balls, one of which was dropped, and he threw two awful deep balls. He also (thankfully) overthrew Davis on a very ill-advised ball when he was bracketed by defenders down field.

 

[imac_21]

only question i have is are the owners going to pay what it takes to get someone who can make ppl like you cream their pants with every throw

Only question I have is how you figured out how to use a computer.

For 6 years I was accused of being one of, if not the, biggest Smith lovers on the planet.

Now I'm a Smith hater?

Tell me Geraint, does Alex Smith throw the ball deep down the sideline well?

 

[imac_21]

He only threw 6 incompletions including VDs drop and Crabtree's drop, so I wouldn't say he repeatedly missed badly. Those two down the sideline to Ginn were not very good passes, so 2 out of 23 passes I think is pretty damn good.

For Christ's sake. This conversation is about his ability to throw the DEEP ball. I don't think he threw 23 passes deep down the field today. I think he threw 4.

2 of those deep passes were down the middle and they were on target. 2 of them were down the sideline and were ridiculously off target.

The conversation, which started well before the game, is about his ability to throw the ball down the field. Crimson and I have both stated (multiple times between the two of us) he throws the deep ball down the middle well but throws the deep ball down the sidelines poorly.

If you aren't going to read the thread to find the context, don't post in it.

 

[Geraint]

Only question I have is how you figured out how to use a computer.

For 6 years I was accused of being one of, if not the, biggest Smith lovers on the planet.

Now I'm a Smith hater?

Tell me Geraint, does Alex Smith throw the ball deep down the sideline well?

are we running a WCO offense?

 

[imac_21]

are we running a WCO offense?

Sorry, let me try again.

Does Alex Smith throw the ball deep down the sideline well?

 

[vvoland]

Alex Smith has shown an ability to throw longer than medium passes between the numbers. That's a distinct difference than stretching the field along the sidelines. We don't know if he can do that, because he's virtually never asked to. Although the TD that was called back to Ginn last week was a deep pass, it was underthrown as Ginn had to come back to it and win a jump ball. Much more often than not he misses those passes badly. I think it's safe to infer that if he could throw the pass down the sideline with average consistency we would see it happen more often.

We're talking about more than the Ravens game here as well. We're talking about a body of work. Smith hasn't seen success stretching the field since 2006.

As to your last paragraph, it's just re-enforcing the point that the QB is the key to stretching the field. Sure, Mike Wallace is a great WR, but would he be nearly as dynamic playing in SF with Smith? And what about guys like Anotnio Brown? Baltimore is absolutely a down field passing attack. Flacco has a huge arm, and look at how often Torrey Smith is sent deep.

Arizona had no turnover at WR1, but significant turnover at QB. Fitz's numbers were significantly effected. Your argument for Steve Smith greatly strengthens my and crimson's point here.

As for Smith not having talent at WR, his top 4 targets in the passing game on the depth chart are Crabtree, Edwards, Davis and Ginn. Edwards is injured, but the latest any of those guys were drafted is 10th overall. It's not as if he isn't surrounded with talent.

Consider this: Does our passing game greatly improve if Jay Cutler is our QB? I'm not looking for Rodgers or Brady. How would Cutler, Schaubb, Romo etc effect our aerial attack?

i'll start from the bottom up again, and let me preface this by saying i respect and appreciate the thoughtful debate you and crimson are bringing to the points i raise.

schaub, romo, and especially cutler, imo, are not upgrades over smith. maybe romo, but his problems in the 4th quarter and postseason have been well documented and he's had a very good supporting cast his whole career, not to mention consistency in the OC and HC departments. he now has dez bryant.. had miles austin.. witten has great hands and overall that team was/is more talented at the skill positions than the niners.

schaub, while making some beautiful throws, also has way too many absolutely retarded ones that cost the team games. i think smith is far more accurate and does a lot more with a lot less. instead of asking if mike wallace could be effective with smith [i don't think there's a question that big ben is a better qb for wallace than smith would be] let me ask you how you think smith would do with andre johnson as his no1?

cutler is probably the worst of the three. he's is brett favre without the magic. he makes a tremendous amount of poor decisions and only this season he's been able to limit his mistakes. i want no part of jay cutler. plus, he just looks like the typical frat boy date rapist.

as i said in an earlier post in this thread, its not that smith doesn't have the arm strength to challenge down the field, its his touch and accuracy that seems lacking. if i had to guess, i would put that down to a lack of practice, trust, and in game situations. the reason i say that is because his accuracy at the same distancy [35+ yds, for instancy] is very good on seam routes and deep posts.

this team has not had a deep threat, nor does it now w/ edwards' injuries. ginn, while a top 10 pick, is not a very good receiver [his jump ball against the ravens notwithstanding]. crabtree is far better as a possession type than a sideline burner. davis is a middle of the field type and has rapport but even he stepped out of bounds on a beautiful sideline pass a few weeks ago [against arizona, i believe] that wasn't exactly a deep bomb but was close to the 35 yd number i mentioned earlier. the video i posted had a similar play to crabtree that i pointed out. our only credible wideout on a deep go route down the sideline is edwards and he hasn't been available, virtually all year.

would mike wallace put up great numbers in sf? not like he has in pitt, but i definitely don't think he'd be left out here. as far as s. smith goes. you absolutely need a qb with an arm to stretch the field. the previous two had nothing like it and cam newton certainly has a cannon. but as someone who's seen no carolina games this year i think its an interesting question as to whether its cam who makes smith look good or vice versa.

my final point is about baltimore being a deep threat passing team. flacco has 6 completions on the season of more than 40 yds [thanks to one of my weird fantasy leagues] and 2 tds. after today's game, smith has 4 and 2, respectively. should have been 5/3 if davis brings that in and the pass crabtree dropped may have gone the distance though i believe that was inside the 40. also, we dont have a torrey smith on this team. ginn has the wheels but not the hands.