Is Sandy Koufax a Top 3 Pitcher of All-Time, Based on Actual Results

[Omar 382]

Let's completey push aside whether or not adavanced stats are what determines baseball hierarchy.

I'm just curious if you legitamaetly believe taking the time to read advanced stats provided for you, makes you knowledgeable on baseball? That doesnt in any way mean you know the game, all it means is you can read what someone else thinks they know. Your "knowledge" is second hand.

Like me when i went to the back of the book for answers in math. I don't fucking know math, but the correct answer was provided for me.

Well, for starters, I don't just read stats. I watch ~150 Phillies games a year. I spend far more time watching baseball than I do reading stats. Far more time.

As regards to your question, understanding different statistics and how they correlate with winning, the only thing that matters in baseball, is important if you want to be someone who puts together a team. It won't help you hit a home run or throw a slider. But it will allow you to put together a team that will win.

So, I guess the answer I would personally give you is yes and no. It depends on what you want out of baseball. I want to see the Phillies win every World Series every year. You may want to play in the majors, or may have at one point. It doesn't make either of us wrong.

But for the purposes of a thread like this; evaluating players, I do think I have supreme knowledge. Whether or not that's arrogant I don't know. So when others come on and start spewing stuff that, to me, is false, I tell them so. Just like I shouldn't go on a thread about how to throw a slider. I don't know how.

 

[Taddy Mason]

No I didn't. I said that Roger Clemens, the guy that is the greatest pitcher of all time, is first on the list. That's all I said. Show me where I gave it as the reason, let alone the sole reason, I rank Clemens first.

You gave other reasons for why you liked Clemens. Though, the top 5 WAR does match your top 5 list.

 

[Omar 382]

You gave other reasons for why you liked Clemens. Though, the top 5 WAR does match your top 5 list.

Nor would I want it to necessarily.

 

[handicappers]

WAR is a joke. nobody uses that ridiculous stat.

 

[broncosmitty]

Baseball is the only area that I have such a mindset, and even then, it's very rare that I have it. I don't go around these boards calling everyone a retard. But when you know the sky is blue, you're going to tell others the sky is blue, even if the sky isn't in fact blue in actuality.

You questioned why I picked Clemens as first and then I gave my reasons. It was stupid to talk with you about it, because you think all of my reasons are fairy-tale bullshit.

Your reasons are bullshit if they're stats that have been altered.

Once you change evidence, stop measuring and recording and apply outside numbers, you've created information. And that isn't statistics, atleast not in a baseball sense. Because the environment isn't, wasn't and won't be 100% controlled.

That doesn't mean conventional stats are free from "creations". Ty Cobb won a batting title without leading his league in batting average. Somehow MLB added a game twice. (Prolly on purpose cuz The Browns were gutless. Idk.)

I had a problem with the spreadsheet you linked because of what you'd said earlier and how it was contradicted by that spreadsheet. Mainly because you discredited someone's opinion who imo, knows what he's talking about. Even if I don't agree.

I hold Clemens PEDs against him because he's a dewshy prick that threw his wife under the bus. And held himself above the team. (Astros are an embarrassment for their handling of him
Imo.)I don't really hold it against anyone else. That's a contradiction. And I'm a hypocrite.

 

[handicappers]

Ohhhhhh shit.

Fight fight fight


Rap Battle #2 in Jason's Deli Parking lot

 

[broncosmitty]

Let's completey push aside whether or not adavanced stats are what determines baseball hierarchy.

I'm just curious if you legitamaetly believe taking the time to read advanced stats provided for you, makes you knowledgeable on baseball? That doesnt in any way mean you know the game, all it means is you can read what someone else thinks they know. Your "knowledge" is second hand.

Like me when i went to the back of the book for answers in math. I don't fucking know math, but the correct answer was provided for me.

Your angle is better than mine.

Ten years of knowing you, it was time I give credit.

 

[broncosmitty]

Ohhhhhh shit.

Fight fight fight


Rap Battle #2 in Jason's Deli Parking lot

Nah, I like Omar.

And I tire easily these days. Especially on pavement.

 

[handicappers]

Nah, I like Omar.

And I tire easily these days. Especially on pavement.

Dude, it's a rap battle. You can totally sit down. Maybe Omar will share his chili cheese fries with you.

 

[broncosmitty]

Well, for starters, I don't just read stats. I watch ~150 Phillies games a year. I spend far more time watching baseball than I do reading stats. Far more time.

As regards to your question, understanding different statistics and how they correlate with winning, the only thing that matters in baseball, is important if you want to be someone who puts together a team. It won't help you hit a home run or throw a slider. But it will allow you to put together a team that will win.

So, I guess the answer I would personally give you is yes and no. It depends on what you want out of baseball. I want to see the Phillies win every World Series every year. You may want to play in the majors, or may have at one point. It doesn't make either of us wrong.

But for the purposes of a thread like this; evaluating players, I do think I have supreme knowledge. Whether or not that's arrogant I don't know. So when others come on and start spewing stuff that, to me, is false, I tell them so. Just like I shouldn't go on a thread about how to throw a slider. I don't know how.

This is why I said use them to prognosticate.

X will happen because A+B+C... I see value there.

Not in hindsight.

Gonna have to work on that arrogance part if you want to get past the interview though.

 

[broncosmitty]

Dude, it's a rap battle. You can totally sit down. Maybe Omar will share his chili cheese fries with you.

I'm more of a poutine guy tbh.

 

[handicappers]

I'm more of a poutine guy tbh.

da fuq. I had to look that up. lol

 

[StanMarsh51]

Too short a career to be top 3, imo. If you put him in the top 3, you'd have to seriously consider putting Pedro in the top 3.

 

[PatsFan2003]

Koufax was great but there are so many great pitchers it's an impossible task.

 

[Carnzo]

All great pitchers but only Randy Johnson could make a pigeon explode and vanish into thin air.

 

[JohnU]

OK, this is one of those ... 'of pitchers I have seen in my lifetime' vs. some monument of a guy from the 1920s.

Of LEFTHANDERS, he was dominant. In the top 3 lefties -- Carlton and Big Unit.

of ALL PITCHERS, at times was among the best. Lots of guys on this list of pitchers in my lifetime.

Was he better than Walter Johnson? How the hell do I know?

 

[TheStarOne]

First of all, pitchers who pitched before 1969, had an advantage.
The pitchers mound before 1969, was 15 inches high.
After 1968, the mound was lowered by 5 inches.
The DH came into baseball in 1976.
We are talking about two different eras.

 

[Chewbaccer]

FWIW, I ranked Clemens as my pick for the best pitcher of all time as well.

I don't have any advanced statistics to back it up, but my reasoning is he was he was great for a long time, and IMO, he was the best pitcher of the most offensively potent era in baseball history.

My second and third pitchers also came from the same era in Greg Maddux and Randy Johnson.

All had great peaks, all had longevity, all did their work in the most offense dominant era ever.

Pedro would have made the list had his peak been a bit longer.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Walter Johnson is GOAT so there is that...after that it is all subjective. Some will say older generation guys and most will say guys they actually saw pitched. I mean top 3?? Lol

 

[Shanemansj13]

Well so I looked through the first couple pages and I cant get back those 5 minutes or so. How about lets change the poll to: "How many people think Omar doesnt know a damn thing about what the hell he is saying?"