Is Pete Carroll the right man for the job

[broncosmitty]

My vote...keep Pete.

You sir, are smart.

 

[flyerhawk]

Pete is a good coach but he's too limited offensively and that's a big enough flaw that keeps tripping up the Seahawks in the end.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying they should drop back and have Wilson let it rip 50 times a game and there is nothing wrong with wanting a strong running game but too often Wilson is the "In case of emergency use this" option instead of being a bigger focal point of the offense from the get go.

Wilson is a top 5 and some would say top 3 QB in the league and to me if you have that kind of guy on your team there is no reason to haven't at least been to one or more NFC Conference games or Super Bowls since the last one in 2014. And even though they've been to the playoffs every year except one since then their really isn't a good win against a quality team in that span.

I wouldn't go so far as to fire Pete yet but if I was a Seahawks fan I'd be demanding more than what he's produced in recent years.

I'm not really upset about the general philosophy of run first.

The thing that drives me crazy is the super conservative choices. I want to throw a chair through my TV every time they run on 2nd and 10.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

I'm not really upset about the general philosophy of run first.

The thing that drives me crazy is the super conservative choices. I want to throw a chair through my TV every time they run on 2nd and 10.

Too many slow first half starts and switching up the offensive schemes needs to be sooner rather than later.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Pete is a good coach but he's too limited offensively and that's a big enough flaw that keeps tripping up the Seahawks in the end.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying they should drop back and have Wilson let it rip 50 times a game and there is nothing wrong with wanting a strong running game but too often Wilson is the "In case of emergency use this" option instead of being a bigger focal point of the offense from the get go.

Wilson is a top 5 and some would say top 3 QB in the league and to me if you have that kind of guy on your team there is no reason to haven't at least been to one or more NFC Conference games or Super Bowls since the last one in 2014. And even though they've been to the playoffs every year except one since then their really isn't a good win against a quality team in that span.

I wouldn't go so far as to fire Pete yet but if I was a Seahawks fan I'd be demanding more than what he's produced in recent years.

Pete maybe should be willing to go to Wilson earlier, but nothing wrong with his offense. It's actually been the strength of the team. What's actual needed is a further infusion of talent to the Seahawks roster.
Up till this season Kyle S. record with the 49ers was 4-12 last year and 6-10 year before. So not so great actually.
In the playoffs the 49ers hardly used their QB in two playoff games , 17 completions for 208 yards combined for two games. Course they didn't need to because they ran the ball really good , so they ran and ran and ran the ball. Better stocked then the Seahawks who lost their top 3 RBs and a better OL. Having 4 top ten picks last 5 years will do that for a roster and the cap space helps obviously. Having that #2 pick and getting a stud like Bosa and trading for Dee Ford , turned the DL into a really top DL, along with all those top 10 draft picks ( not to mention they picked early in every round last 5 years).
It's really more about the accumulation of talent, more so then the coaching this season for both the 49ers ( rich in talent) and Seahawks ( scratching to find gems over looked) which correlates with win/lose records. Pete is a hell of a coach and it is all in his resume since he started coaching the Seahawks. Get out of here with that poppycock your pushing.

 

[JMR]

The 49ers just won the NFCC by throwing it 8 times and scoring 37 points to beat GB, so "run first" is not necessarily an antiquated approach. You just have to do it well. In the GB game, Russell dropped back 43 times. We had 16 designed run plays. I hope no one is accusing us of "running first" in that game, but it sure would have helped us win had we been able to do it more effectively.

I'm not really upset about the general philosophy of run first.

The thing that drives me crazy is the super conservative choices. I want to throw a chair through my TV every time they run on 2nd and 10.

I don't mind running on 2nd and 10 if you're consistently picking up 3-5 yards. I looked up NFL offensive tendencies on 2nd & 10. On a site called "sharp football stats" they bunch 2nd & 8-10 all together, and the NFL tendency is 66% pass and 34% run, with a 42% success rate (I am not sure what their definition of success is). The Hawks run it 7% more than the league avg in that situation, but they're also 7% more successful (again, not knowing how that is defined).

I'm just not ready to conclude we have to go back to the drawing board on offense because it was more challenging to put points on the board vs SF, Philly & GB without Carson & Penny (and a couple starters on the OL).

 

[Anointed One]

Pete maybe should be willing to go to Wilson earlier, but nothing wrong with his offense. It's actually been the strength of the team. What's actual needed is a further infusion of talent to the Seahawks roster.
Up till this season Kyle S. record with the 49ers was 4-12 last year and 6-10 year before. So not so great actually.
In the playoffs the 49ers hardly used their QB in two playoff games , 17 completions for 208 yards combined for two games. Course they didn't need to because they ran the ball really good , so they ran and ran and ran the ball. Better stocked then the Seahawks who lost their top 3 RBs and a better OL. Having 4 top ten picks last 5 years will do that for a roster and the cap space helps obviously. Having that #2 pick and getting a stud like Bosa and trading for Dee Ford , turned the DL into a really top DL, along with all those top 10 draft picks ( not to mention they picked early in every round last 5 years).
It's really more about the accumulation of talent, more so then the coaching this season for both the 49ers ( rich in talent) and Seahawks ( scratching to find gems over looked) which correlates with win/lose records. Pete is a hell of a coach and it is all in his resume since he started coaching the Seahawks. Get out of here with that poppycock your pushing.

In '17, K. S did end the season winning 6 out of 7 so he was getting things moving in the right direction... In '18, He has so many injuries early on in the season, which included his starting QB so I wouldn't really blame him for 4-12... If Seahawks lost RW, I wouldn't be surprised to see us finish 4-12 either...

I honestly feel like KS is a better coach than Carroll right now...

 

[HaroldSeattle]

In '17, K. S did end the season winning 6 out of 7 so he was getting things moving in the right direction... In '18, He has so many injuries early on in the season, which included his starting QB so I wouldn't really blame him for 4-12... If Seahawks lost RW, I wouldn't be surprised to see us finish 4-12 either...

I honestly feel like KS is a better coach than Carroll right now...

My point wasn't that KS was a poor coach, but that talent on the roster plays a major role in success. Thus 49ers success this season vs Seahawks season. As for whose a better coach, I'll need to see how KS does once everyone wants the big bucks and assistants start leaving for better jobs.

 

[Judge Fudge]

Pretty good article on the The Athletic by Ben Baldwin.

Is Pete Carroll the right coach for this version of the...

I know that there is a paywall for the article so I'll post some relevant parts. IMO, any serious sports fan should have an Athletic subscription. It's what ESPN used to be.

First Baldwin lists out the bad arguments about whether to keep him.

Let’s briefly get some of the bad arguments out of the way before getting to the more serious discussion. This isn’t to say that all arguments in favor of retaining Carroll are bad — as we’ll get to, they aren’t — but these particular ones are.



I'm generally against change for change's sake but I'm really much more willing to listen to arguments right now. So I think the above is all valid.

He gives several arguments for keeping Pete, which we all already know. And he gives several arguments for moving on from Pete. But to me these are the 2 biggies..



Pete's focus on running the ball has come at a cost in relation to the passing game. We have one of the best QBs in football and he is forced to throw to guys like Malik Turner and Jaron Brown. Now hopefully Metcalf will be the game changer we all think he can be and that can change this team around. But regardless we need more skill at skill positions. Collier may turn out to be legit but a run focused DE is rarely worth a 1st round pick these days.

But the bigger issue, IMO, is Carroll's philosophy. When we had a dominant defense, we could rely on heavy running and clutch throws by Russ. We don't have a dominant defense anymore. In fact we have the opposite. And yet our offensive philosophy is essentially the same. I am sick to death of the 1 yard gain on 2nd and 10. I am sick to death of the 53 yard field goal attempt on 4th and 2. It frustrates me to no end that we have to fall behind before they let Russ cook. And it frustrates me even more than Pete can't understand WHY we wait until we are behind to let Russ cook.

We have one of the most accurate deep ball throwers in the NFL. How bout throwing a deep ball on 1st down to start the game on a single read play? How bout letting Russ scramble for a couple of gains in the 1st quarter rather than waiting until we are behind? How bout a RPO or two early in the game?

Pete is going to be the coach in 2020, barring something remarkable happening. But hopefully the media will relentlessly pound into his brain that he has an exceptional talent behind center and winning games by 20 is better than winning games by 4.

First off. I love the Athletic. I like the beat reporter for the Seahawks and the Q and A after every game.

2nd. I'm with snuggles, and that is a rarity, when he says we need a successful college coach. Lincoln Riely, Nick Saban, Dabo Sweeney just to name a few.

3) I was talking with a co-worker, steelers homer who watches Seahawks games. He was saying the that Russ was not running enough and I agree. Yes we need to pass the ball but Fucking let Russ be Russ.

 

[Judge Fudge]

We need to keep 27 or trade up this year

 

[TheDayMan]

There is no argument for getting rid of Carroll... Your opinions are bad and you should feel bad if you think that’s a reasonable thing that should be considered. Reactionary fan bullshit is the worst.

 

[MrS]

There is no argument for getting rid of Carroll... Your opinions are bad and you should feel bad if you think that’s a reasonable thing that should be considered. Reactionary fan bullshit is the worst.

we havent been beyond the divisional round since 2014. how is that not an argument?

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

My point wasn't that KS was a poor coach, but that talent on the roster plays a major role in success. Thus 49ers success this season vs Seahawks season. As for whose a better coach, I'll need to see how KS does once everyone wants the big bucks and assistants start leaving for better jobs.

Exactly.... Every team that finds success starts losing assistant coaches, it HURTS as a fan of that team watching the chemistry get picked apart... But I get it, it's just part of how the league works...

 

[JMR]

I think we have to be careful to avoid getting sick of winning. This league is designed to make it easier for the bad teams to become good and harder for the good teams to stay there. We have made the playoffs 7 of 8 years, 2 SB trips over that span (only SF can also say that in the NFC), double digit wins SEVEN times in the RW era while playing in the division that has won the NFC 5 times in the last 8 seasons. That's a resume that I think only NE can top over that timeframe.

For me, PC has been excellent the past 2 seasons. Last year was supposed to be a significant step back, but it didn't really turn out that way. This season I think we probably got ahead of schedule by a year in terms of where we should be based on the amount of youth on the roster. SF will undoubtedly be the popular pick next year in the NFC and our division, but we know how difficult it is to put together b2b super bowl type seasons. I still say Pete has this team on the right track and can get us back to contender status.

 

[MrS]

"That's a resume that I think only NE can top over that timeframe"

Its not comparable, they made 2 trips to the SB and made conference champs every year but this one.

At what point is losing in the playoffs not enough anymore?

I give it one more year. If we arent at least in the nfccg the we need to move on.

 

[MKHawk]

Pete is a terrific coach Monday through Saturday. This team just about always shows up and is in almost every game.

Pete is a bad coach with in-game strategy. The problem is everyone (save maybe 3-4 coaches) is also bad. I do believe Pete has gotten worse here in the last 2-3 years though, which is problematic.

My biggest gripe though is...Pete coaches the game based on the team he wants to have, NOT the team he actually has. The philosophy worked with young Russ and the LOB. Russ is better now and the D has fallen off of a cliff, you need to coach the team you have to maximize their chances to win.

I'm not saying this team should never lean into the run-first philosophy he wants...but when you're down multiple healtnhy bodies on the OL and have Travis Homer and the corpse of Marshawn in the backfield, you need to let Russ work.

When your defense is (easily) bottom half of the league, FGs on 4th and short in the opp 30-40 is bad. Punting is just stupid. Trusting your defense to get a stop rather than putting the game in Russ' hands on 4th down is really really bad.

 

[JMR]

"That's a resume that I think only NE can top over that timeframe"

Its not comparable, they made 2 trips to the SB and made conference champs every year but this one.

I didn't compare them. I acknowledged that NE's resume was better.

 

[seattlefan75]

Why in the hell would we let go Pete? In all his seasons since being a head coach in Seattle he missed the playoffs only once and saw two super bowl appearances. Some of you guys should take a step back and think to that post Mike Holmgren era and ask yourself is risking going back that life worth letting Pete go? People want to imagine us getting better but there is also a huge possibility that we could get 10x worse.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

I think we have to be careful to avoid getting sick of winning. This league is designed to make it easier for the bad teams to become good and harder for the good teams to stay there.

It tends to relevant to what fans have experienced as of late. Have a run of 4-12 , 5-11 teams not even sniffing the playoffs and fans go nuts if they sneak into the playoffs. Have a run of playoff ever year and only a Super bowl will satisfy. Best to win it also. Best not go to long in between Superbowl's either.
Fans get spoiled to the point that only being the best will do and that means being the best often or heads should be chopped pronto. Memories of being on the Bucs level ( or Browns, Jets etc.) get forgotten.

 

[blstoker]

It tends to relevant to what fans have experienced as of late. Have a run of 4-12 , 5-11 teams not even sniffing the playoffs and fans go nuts if they sneak into the playoffs. Have a run of playoff ever year and only a Super bowl will satisfy. Best to win it also. Best not go to long in between Superbowl's either.
Fans get spoiled to the point that only being the best will due and that means being the best often or heads should be chopped pronto. Memories of being on the Bucs level ( or Browns, Jets etc.) get forgotten.

 

[MrS]

Why in the hell would we let go Pete? In all his seasons since being a head coach in Seattle he missed the playoffs only once and saw two super bowl appearances. Some of you guys should take a step back and think to that post Mike Holmgren era and ask yourself is risking going back that life worth letting Pete go? People want to imagine us getting better but there is also a huge possibility that we could get 10x worse.

He was 7-9 and 7-9 without wilson. Honestly, who is a bigger reason for our success ? If i have to pick, im taking wilson.

We can replace pete, replacing wilson will be much harder