Is Miguel Cabrera the best hitter ever

[MiamiVice]

What should I look at that would suggest this? I'm having trouble finding even a single offensive statistic where he places that badly. Total hits is one I guess (he's 164th) but one can argue that batting average measures the same skill better and he's ranked 95th in that. He ranks 95th, 20th and 69th all-time in the basic triple slash categories, and there are somehow 150 hitters that were better? I get the general sense of what you're trying to say here, but you're exaggerating the point quite a bit.

My point is there are way better hitters than him... And he shouldn't even be in the discussion. Using stats alone doesn't always work... Because sometimes guys like Pete Rose can extend there career long enough to have better over all numbers totals. You can't say a guy like Rose is a better hitter than a guy like Gwynn because he has more hits... He just played more games and had more at bats... Career BA is different... If you play 22 yrs like cobb did and still have a .366 career BA... Thats insane. Also back to stat totals... Guys like Pujols and Miggy are way better hitters than martinez was... But they are still playing and dont have a finished statline.

Like i said... Cobb, Williams, and Ruth are debateable as the greatest ever... Nobody else really has a claim over those three... And Miggy would have to put up 7-10 more .330+ ba seasons with 35+ hr and 100+ rbi to be in the discussion.

 

[MiamiVice]

By the way... 3 yrs ago people thought Pujols was on course to be the greatest... Although everyone know Pujols lied about his age and he is really 45

 

[RoboticDreams]

Why not something like this...

1. Ruth
2. Williams
3. Cobb
4. Gehrig
5. Musial
6. Hornsby
7. Jackson

Works for me...

I like that list. I was just asking who you'd replace that guys top 5 with. Your list is pretty accurate.

 

[Sportsguy9695]

is there any chance that this guy is on the juice? this guy just kills the ball

 

[black francis]

You know he only hit over 50 once, right when he was using steroids. Great power hitter, but to go from mid-40's to 73....hahaha. He isn't on the list, end of that discussion.

We should A-Roid on the list too

So the greatest hitters have to hit 50 home runs in a season? The question was greatest hitter, not greatest power hitter.

He is back in the discussion.

And how do you know when he actually allegedly using roids? Maybe he was doing it the entire time

 

[PPhan]

He wasn't the best with PED's. I could name about ten others better.

Bonds on roids was by far the most feared hitter ever. The dude was simply a god amongst men.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Other players that might dispute this by team:

Baltimore/ St.louis Browns George Sisler
Boston Ted Williams Jimmie Foxx
New York Babe Ruth Lou Gehrig Joe DiMaggio Mickey Mantle
Chicago Frank Thomas Joe Jackson
Detroit Ty Cobb Hank Greenberg
Kansas City George Brett
Minnesota Rod Carew
Oakland Nap Lajoie
Seattle Ichiro
Atlanta Hank Aaron
Chicago Ernie Banks Cap Anson
Cincinnati Pete Rose
Pittsburgh Roberto Clemente Honus Wagner Lloyd Waner Arky Vaughn
St. Louis Albert Pujols Stan Musial Rogers Hornsby
San Diego Tony Gwynn
San Francisco Willie Mays Barry Bonds



Not saying that all these players are better then Miggy, but they are all up there.

A lot of these players are not "up there". Not even close. George Sisler? Ichiro? Greatest hitters of all-time????

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Best hitter of his generation? Quite possibly. Best hitter ever? He's got a few more years to prove it.

I can't imagine there is even a remote possibility he could ever prove to be the best hitter of all time. He's climbing the list rapidly, but he'll never get into the rarified air of the names at the top of that list.

 

[wood20ks]

For people to discuss the greatest hitters of all-time,I think a player needs to hit for a great average and have power.(Not huge power but very good power.Great power with a great average is a plus).
There are few that fit this catagory.
Ichiro does not as someone posted as him being an all-time greatest,as i think Cobb does not.
Why not Cobb? Cause he falls in the Ichiro catagory...........Speed.

Give me an Aaron,Ruth,Mays,Pujols,Williams,Musial and Gerigh over a cobb,Ichiro,Gwynn and a few others that were listed any day of the week.

 

[MiamiVice]

I can't imagine there is even a remote possibility he could ever prove to be the best hitter of all time. He's climbing the list rapidly, but he'll never get into the rarified air of the names at the top of that list.

At the half way point of his career... He has a shot.. to say he will never get there is quite the statement. The guy is still getting better... and if he carries a .330+ ave with power for the next 7/8 yrs.. his stats will beat just about everyones... Never is a strong word.

 

[MiamiVice]

For people to discuss the greatest hitters of all-time,I think a player needs to hit for a great average and have power.(Not huge power but very good power.Great power with a great average is a plus).
There are few that fit this catagory.
Ichiro does not as someone posted as him being an all-time greatest,as i think Cobb does not.
Why not Cobb? Cause he falls in the Ichiro catagory...........Speed.

Give me an Aaron,Ruth,Mays,Pujols,Williams,Musial and Gerigh over a cobb,Ichiro,Gwynn and a few others that were listed any day of the week.

LOL.. did you just put Pujols over Cobb? That is laughable... Seriously... Are you Serious?

 

[wood20ks]

LOL.. did you just put Pujols over Cobb? That is laughable... Seriously... Are you Serious?

maybe not the Pujols of now,but thats a big 10-4.

You give me the average,power over a singles hitter any day of the week.......with a runner on first and down by one,who`d you rather had?

Give me Pujols who would be more feared than Cobb.

 

[Nosferatu]

[SIZE=-1]"I never saw anyone like Ty Cobb.[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] No one even close to him. He was the greatest all time ballplayer. That guy was superhuman, amazing." - Casey Stengel[/SIZE]​

 

[Chef99]

[SIZE=-1]"I never saw anyone like Ty Cobb.[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] No one even close to him. He was the greatest all time ballplayer. That guy was superhuman, amazing." - Casey Stengel[/SIZE]​

Casey was prone to hyperbole.

 

[Nosferatu]

You give me the average,power over a singles hitter any day of the week

Singles hitter? He had more than 1,100 extra base hits and almost 900 stolen bases... LOL singles hitter...

 

[Nosferatu]

Casey was prone to hyperbole.

True but why do it for Cobb? A player everyone hated.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

So the greatest hitters have to hit 50 home runs in a season? The question was greatest hitter, not greatest power hitter.

He is back in the discussion.

And how do you know when he actually allegedly using roids? Maybe he was doing it the entire time

Wouldn't the "greatest hitter" be a combination of all the various elements of hitting? That includes power.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

For people to discuss the greatest hitters of all-time,I think a player needs to hit for a great average and have power.(Not huge power but very good power.Great power with a great average is a plus).
There are few that fit this catagory.
Ichiro does not as someone posted as him being an all-time greatest,as i think Cobb does not.
Why not Cobb? Cause he falls in the Ichiro catagory...........Speed.

Give me an Aaron,Ruth,Mays,Pujols,Williams,Musial and Gerigh over a cobb,Ichiro,Gwynn and a few others that were listed any day of the week.

Correct, it's a combination of all the elements of hitting. That includes power, average, plate discipline, contact, etc.

Though you're way off on Cobb. Cobb was a power hitter for his day. Look at his SLG and OPS+. It's not his fault the conditions were what they were.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

At the half way point of his career... He has a shot.. to say he will never get there is quite the statement. The guy is still getting better... and if he carries a .330+ ave with power for the next 7/8 yrs.. his stats will beat just about everyones... Never is a strong word.

Sorry, I can't see it. Like you said, he's roughly at the halfway point. How many Ruth-esque or Williams-esque or Bonds-esque seasons does he have? I only see two, one of which is the current season. How many Pujols-esque seasons? 4? If he were potentially there, he'd already have a bunch of those seasons on his ledger. He's great, don't get me wrong, but unless he has another 4-5 seasons like the one he's having now, I just don't see how you could include him with those guys.

He's currently 22nd on the all-time OPS+ list. That's excellent, but it's not "best hitter of all-time" material. Am I to believe he's going to drastically increase it as his career continues and eventually reaches a decline phase? He's going to be on the list, but just not at that upper echelon. He'll be on the 2nd tier, with guys like Mays & Aaron, which is not such a bad place to be.

 

[wood20ks]

Singles hitter? He had more than 1,100 extra base hits and almost 900 stolen bases... LOL singles hitter...

it took him 24 years to amass those hits............Pujols has very close to that in just 12.
And what does stolen bases have to do with hits?

And yes,I will take a hr hitter thats hits for a very good average anyday over a guy that hits just for average.
The name of the games is to who can score the most runs in a game.
Pujols can generate more runs than Cobb ever could.