Is Luka for AD the most shocking trade of all time

[tc1]

Exellent reply however I said all time great players. Shaq, etc. Not Fisher level players.

I know what you said -- and I said that a lot of those players are stars, which they are.

.We all recognize that Jerry West was brilliant. I get that. But he's been gone for decades and in that time they acquired, not through the draft, LeBron James, AD and now Luka.

Again, there is no meaningful distinction between drafting a player, and trading players that you drafted for a player. The latter is precisely how they acquired Davis.

It does kind of resemble what the Dodgers are doing.

The Dodgers are outspending the enormous majority of the league, because there's no cap in baseball. That is not what the Lakers are doing. The Dodgers are outspending the bottom 5 teams combined, which is not even legal in basketball.

Great for LA fans but sucks for everyone else. Of course a lot of that is envy. But to me the Celtics have been more impressive and they have not relied on getting a top 5 player who they acquired via FA or in a lopsided trade because the player wanted out.

The Celtics acquired the Jaylen Brown pick in the lopsided Garnett trade. They also traded for the Tatum pick, which originally belonged to the Lakers. The Celtics acquired Holiday as a downstream effect of Lilliard forcing his way out of Portland.

More to the point, the Davis trade was lopsided because the Lakers overpaid, not because they received some discount. Again, it was the most expensive one season rental in sport history.

The Lakers are almost always forced to overpay in trades, because every GM knows that the Lakers always have more assets, and if they float a rumor about another bid, the Lakers always have more, and generally are not afraid to spend it.

 

[Wamu]

What are the "at least four" Championships the Lakers needed breaks on?

!985, 87 and '10 for sure.

 

[Wamu]

Who are the two communists that voted for potato salad?

 

[tc1]

Biggest breaks the Lakers got in their history happened in the 70's.

In 1976, they got the then, New Orleans Jazz 1979 first round pick as compensation for signing Gail Goodrich as a free agent. That 1979 pick became Magic Johnson.

That one counts -- having your high picks in the right year is a huge deal.

That said, you still have to make the pick. Bird, Jordan, and a few other multi-MVPs weren't selected first.

In 1979 they traded Don Ford and a 1980 pick to the Cavs for Butch Lee and the 1982 pick which became James Worthy when they won a coin flip with the Clippers for the #1 pick.

This one doesn't, however. The Cavaliers were bad and that pick was going to be very high. It would not have mattered if it was #1 or #2 or #3. The top three players that year were all great small forwards, and as much as I loved James Worthy as a player, no less than Dominique Wilkins went #3 in that draft.

Can anyone even imagine plugging 'Nique into Showtime? They would've needed to replace the rims at half time for all the dunking he'd have done off feeds from Magic.

Even Terry Cummings, the #2 pick, was a great player, who toiled largely in obscurity ( but who retired with more winshares than Worthy, if you like that metric ).

 

[tc1]

I’ve been enjoying the back and forth. I always love the ones that say “you all have 5th grade reading levels” but then continue to engage.

Perhaps even as much as I enjoy you all wondering about who I am not.

And, kids learn to read by trying to read material that's too difficult for them. You're welcome.

 

[tc1]

Is there anything I can say to speed your meltdown up?

Everything, I suppose, since I'm perfectly cool here. Thanks though.

 

[tc1]

I can’t argue with someone who just repeatedly makes things up to fit their narrative.

Pot. Kettle.

AD was absolutely heading toward free agency. How can you refute that?

Every player is "heading toward free agency". Davis had a season left on his deal when his was traded.

He was an unrestricted FA in 2020.

He told the Pelicans well before that what his intentions were. They dealt him a year before and he resigned with the Lakers. As he said he would do, obviously.

He did not "re-sign" with the Lakers. He became a UFA, talked with other teams, listened to offers, and then signed as an unrestricted free agent with the Lakers -- exactly as he could've done with any other team, or with the Lakers had they not traded for him.

If you recall, the Laker FO was petrified at the time that he might walk. Had they not won the bubble title, he probably would have, and I believe he hinted as much at the time.

I think I have to be done with you.

Aren’t even bright enough to know what you don’t know.

I know what you don't know, as we've seen over and over and over and over now. If there's anything I don't know, we haven't covered that territory yet.

 

[tc1]

What are the "at least four" Championships the Lakers needed breaks on?

Reading is fun-damental. I said the Lakers have ___lost___ at least four titles due to poorly timed injuries.

 

[trojanfan12]

This one doesn't, however. The Cavaliers were bad and that pick was going to be very high. It would not have mattered if it was #1 or #2 or #3. The top three players that year were all great small forwards, and as much as I loved James Worthy as a player, no less than Dominique Wilkins went #3 in that draft.

Actually it does count based on the reason the trade happened. Ted Stepien had just bought the team and wanted to turn things around quickly so he traded their 1982 through 1986 first round picks to improve the roster.

The team failed to win even 30 games in those next for seasons which led to "The Stepien Rule" which is why teams aren't allowed to trade first round picks in consecutive years without an ok from the league.

It counts as a break, because had Stepien's plan worked at all...the Lakers 1st round pick is lower and they don't get Worthy.

 

[Wamu]

Everything, I suppose, since I'm perfectly cool here. Thanks though.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Reading is fun-damental. I said the Lakers have ___lost___ at least four titles due to poorly timed injuries.

Which four

 

[tc1]

Actually it does count based on the reason the trade happened. Ted Stepien had just bought the team and wanted to turn things around quickly so he traded their 1982 through 1986 first round picks to improve the roster.

The team failed to win even 30 games in those next for seasons which led to "The Stepien Rule" which is why teams aren't allowed to trade first round picks in consecutive years without an ok from the league.

It counts as a break, because had Stepien's plan worked at all...the Lakers 1st round pick is lower and they don't get Worthy.

It's Cleveland, they were still going to be bad -- as we saw.

And again, as I said, the rest of the league caught a massive break that the Lakers were not "forced" to draft Wilkins. As much as I adore Worthy as a player, Wilkins was better.

Even if the Lakers wound up with Cummings, they might've been better off. Cummings was a different player from Worthy, bigger, stronger, and a much better rebounder. In that timeline, they keep Jamal Wilkes and run: Johnson/[Nixon|later Scott]/Wilkes/Cummings/Abdul-Jabbar which is utterly filthy -- all of those guys averaged 20+ at some point except Nixon, who was still a 2-time All-star and got some MVP votes. Instead, they used a succession of fours, like Kupchak, Rambis, and Green.

As amazing as it is, Showtime could have been better. They could've been __a lot__ better, actually. They threw away no less than Adrian Dantley in a terrible 1980 trade, and he went on to be the most-efficient high-volume scorer in league history. Imagine throwing that in the Showtime blender.

They could have legitimately rostered 3 guys with an eventual total of 10 MVP awards ( they actually did this anyway ), 4 guys who led the league scoring a combined total of 8 times, 3 or 4 other random All-Stars, and the ultimate Sixth Man, Michael Cooper. All they had to do was not trade Dantley, and draft Wilkins instead of Worthy.

And oh by the way, one of the best coaches ever.

 

[trojanfan12]

And again, as I said, the rest of the league caught a massive break that the Lakers were not "forced" to draft Wilkins. As much as I adore Worthy as a player, Wilkins was better.

It's not just about who the better player is...it's about who the better fit is.

Worthy was a better fit for the Lakers than 'Nique would have been...that's why they took him instead of 'Nique.

Luka is a better player than AD, but AD fits better with Kyrie than Luka does.

AD also fits better with Lebron than Luka, which is why the Lakers have more work to do than the Mavs, but the Luka move is more about the post-Lebron era.

 

[tlance]

Pot. Kettle.



Every player is "heading toward free agency". Davis had a season left on his deal when his was traded.



He did not "re-sign" with the Lakers. He became a UFA, talked with other teams, listened to offers, and then signed as an unrestricted free agent with the Lakers -- exactly as he could've done with any other team, or with the Lakers had they not traded for him.

If you recall, the Laker FO was petrified at the time that he might walk. Had they not won the bubble title, he probably would have, and I believe he hinted as much at the time.



I know what you don't know, as we've seen over and over and over and over now. If there's anything I don't know, we haven't covered that territory yet.

Dude.

He wanted to be in LA. He got traded to LA.

He resigned in LA.

And there was never a single credible report linking Davis with any team but the Lakers in free agency.

Making stuff up again.

 

[tc1]

It's not just about who the better player is...it's about who the better fit is.

Worthy was a better fit for the Lakers than 'Nique would have been...that's why they took him instead of 'Nique.

That's demonstrably wrong. Worthy was the higher-rated player. Wilkins was so poorly scouted that Utah traded him immediately to Atlanta for the extremely underwhelming package of John Drew and Freeman Williams.

Please don't just imagine arguments. You can even research a lot of this, if you are so inclined.

Luka is a better player than AD, but AD fits better with Kyrie than Luka does.

AD also fits better with Lebron than Luka, which is why the Lakers have more work to do than the Mavs, but the Luka move is more about the post-Lebron era.

Fine, whatever. The point remains that James is better than Irving, by a substantial margin. There is then no logic behind thinking that Irving + Davis will be any better than James + Davis has been for several years now -- which has been, "not nearly good enough".

Irving is not, and never has been, the player that some people here seem to think he is.

Dallas now has two players who have underachieved with respect to winning for just about their entire careers, unless paired with a guy who is currently a Laker, and who both have questionable desire and motivation.

And again, the Lakers now have __two__ players who have gone to the Finals without much help. The rest of the league, combined, has around 1, or perhaps 2.

 

[trojanfan12]

That's demonstrably wrong.

No, it's exactly what happened. There was discussion in the Lakers FO about 'Nique and Worthy. They took Worthy because he was a better fit. They didn't need Cummings, so for them it was between Worthy and 'Nique. I don't need to research shit...I've been following the Lakers since 1970 and saw all of it.

Fine, whatever. The point remains that James is better than Irving, by a substantial margin.

40 year old Lebron is not better by a "substantial margin".

There is then no logic behind thinking that Irving + Davis will be any better than James + Davis has been for several years now -- which has been, "not nearly good enough".

Depends on what else they have around them. James and Davis have only won the one title because of injuries either to one of them or due to lack of a good supporting cast, especially since the Westbrook debacle that they've been trying to recover from.

 

[tc1]

And there was never a single credible report linking Davis with any team but the Lakers in free agency.

Only Davis' own mouth.


Please stop wasting my time with your nonsense. Do better.

 

[tlance]

Only Davis' own mouth.


Please stop wasting my time with your nonsense. Do better.

Yep I saw that interview.

Taking 1 quote and trying to make it prove that he was ever in danger of leaving.

He was not. It was possible for him to leave. Again, he was never linked to another team. Not ever.

 

[tc1]

No, it's exactly what happened. There was discussion in the Lakers FO about 'Nique and Worthy. They took Worthy because he was a better fit. They didn't need Cummings, so for them it was between Worthy and 'Nique. I don't need to research shit...I've been following the Lakers since 1970 and saw all of it.

Which is why I just had to explain that draft to you a few minutes ago -- right. Of course you were in the room with West and Riley and others as they discussed all this.

Cummings would have been the better fit, being closer to a four, and with Wilkes already on the roster at the 3. But just about everyone thought Worthy was the best player, after he dragged Jordan to that title.

40 year old Lebron is not better by a "substantial margin".

Look at their numbers and/or watch them play.

Depends on what else they have around them. James and Davis have only won the one title because of injuries either to one of them or due to lack of a good supporting cast, especially since the Westbrook debacle that they've been trying to recover from.

And this is all better than Irving + Davis is likely to be, which is the point.

Who on Dallas' roster other than Irving and Davis is better than any of: Russell, Reaves, Hachimura, or even Malik Monk?

 

[tc1]

Yep I saw that interview.

Taking 1 quote and trying to make it prove that he was ever in danger of leaving.

He was not. It was possible for him to leave. Again, he was never linked to another team. Not ever.

He literally said he might leave. If you cannot process that, well, just luck in life I guess.

Was Doncic linked to Los Angeles until about 20 hours ago? No. You don't hear everything. But you did just hear Davis say that he might leave.