Is Lebron a Dynasty Unto Himself?

[msgkings322]

You are talking about 1 year.

The Patriots have been title contenders every single year Brady has been their QB. Just as LeBron’s teams have almost always been top title contenders. Just like LeBron’s teams.

That is the main reason why people them. If they weren’t so damn good, nobody would care about the nit picky reasons they find to dislike them.

If LeBron is a "dynasty" then so is Brady

 

[DragonfromTO]

It starts with "d", that's for sure

 

[trojanfan12]

Covering HS sports is creepy, yet accusing a poster for having another individual's "one nut" in his mouth is somehow not?

Now you're catching on.

 

[tlance]

If LeBron is a "dynasty" then so is Brady

I don’t really care if he is or not. Comes down to semantics of how you want to use the term.

What he has accomplished has been unprecedented in the modern. Ditto for Brady.

 

[RobToxin]

It's valid.

I been on the LeBron haters side at times but I have never seen a player in my lifetime go from team to team the way he does and not only make the impact he does with each new team but also have the team he just left look like Tokyo following a Godzilla attack.

Especially the Cavaliers.

Practically 60 wins per season with him.

20 without him.

And before anyone says "other players left too", other players left because LeBron left. Just like those players came to Cleveland to begin with. Because LeBron was there.

That is the impact this one man has on every team he has been with.

If it is possible for a single player to be a dynasty, he would be that player.

 

[RobToxin]

If LeBron is a "dynasty" then so is Brady

And that is a fair statement as well.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

And what have Irving and Love won with LeBron?

I got news for you, they are both talented players, but extremely flawed.

No, LeBron doesn’t go back to Cleveland if they didn’t have the assets to compete. That is given. But there were other places he would have chosen over Cleveland if he were purely ring chasing.

Cleveland was as good as they were during that era because of LeBron and his leadership. Yes he needed good support players, like every superstar does.

And this thread is not about comparing LeBron to Jordan. But the fact that you brought that up proves how amazing his career has been. Because he is in the conversation and he deserves to be.

I believe you meant to say what have they won without Lebron. As they won a NBA title with him. That being said -- you can ask the same thing about Lebron. You got to see what he is without elite talent around him last year and before that his teams in Cleveland before he started chasing rings.

And as I said -- I think Lebron is one of the all time greats, but personally, I wouldn't put him in the GOAT conversation. I think the most telling poll ever done -- they polled all the NBA GM's and asked them, game on the line -- who do you want with the ball in their hands? The options were Jordan, Kobe, Bird or Lebron. Lebron received zero votes.

If he had that killer instinct many of the other all-time greats had -- Lebron would be an absolute monster. Even more so than he is anyways.

And Lebron has had an amazing career -- Is he a dynasty? No. Unless you want to say he had an Eastern Conference Dynasty?!? Is he in the conversation as GOAT?!? No. He is like 15 games under .500 in the NBA finals. Id say he is the most physically gifted player though.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

It's valid.

I been on the LeBron haters side at times but I have never seen a player in my lifetime go from team to team the way he does and not only make the impact he does with each new team but also have the team he just left look like Tokyo following a Godzilla attack.

Especially the Cavaliers.

Practically 60 wins per season with him.

20 without him.

And before anyone says "other players left too", other players left because LeBron left. Just like those players came to Cleveland to begin with. Because LeBron was there.

That is the impact this one man has on every team he has been with.

If it is possible for a single player to be a dynasty, he would be that player.

Actually -- No one would come to Cleveland -- that's why he jumped ship to Dwayne Wade's Heat team.

Kyrie was drafted before Lebron got there and asked to be traded while Lebron was on the team.

Lebron went to LA and with more superstar FA in a single year than we've ever seen. LA signed none of them. Leonard actually signed with the Clippers instead of Lakers. LA had to trade away a fortune to get AD.

Think about it -- who is the best FA to ever sign on to play with Lebron in his career? And Miami doesn't count because Lebron signed with Wade's team.

 

[tlance]

I believe you meant to say what have they won without Lebron. As they won a NBA title with him. That being said -- you can ask the same thing about Lebron. You got to see what he is without elite talent around him last year and before that his teams in Cleveland before he started chasing rings.

And as I said -- I think Lebron is one of the all time greats, but personally, I wouldn't put him in the GOAT conversation. I think the most telling poll ever done -- they polled all the NBA GM's and asked them, game on the line -- who do you want with the ball in their hands? The options were Jordan, Kobe, Bird or Lebron. Lebron received zero votes.

If he had that killer instinct many of the other all-time greats had -- Lebron would be an absolute monster. Even more so than he is anyways.

And Lebron has had an amazing career -- Is he a dynasty? No. Unless you want to say he had an Eastern Conference Dynasty?!? Is he in the conversation as GOAT?!? No. He is like 15 games under .500 in the NBA finals. Id say he is the most physically gifted player though.

He literally made 2 Finals with garbage rosters and won 2 games in a 3rd with the other 2 stars injured.

Yes. He absolutely 100% is in the GOAT conversation. Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in denial.

 

[tlance]

Actually -- No one would come to Cleveland -- that's why he jumped ship to Dwayne Wade's Heat team.

Kyrie was drafted before Lebron got there and asked to be traded while Lebron was on the team.

Lebron went to LA and with more superstar FA in a single year than we've ever seen. LA signed none of them. Leonard actually signed with the Clippers instead of Lakers. LA had to trade away a fortune to get AD.

Think about it -- who is the best FA to ever sign on to play with Lebron in his career? And Miami doesn't count because Lebron signed with Wade's team.

Kyrie is a horrible teammate. The fact that he asked to be traded is not a knock at all against LeBron. Just look at the track record.

And no, most superstars don’t want to play with LeBron. But as KD said, it is mostly because of the atmosphere and the pressure surrounding him, which is not his fault. Take that away and things might be different.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

He literally made 2 Finals with garbage rosters and won 2 games in a 3rd with the other 2 stars injured.

Yes. He absolutely 100% is in the GOAT conversation. Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in denial.

In the conversation -- sure. Zero chance he is ever looked at as the GOAT though. He is 3-6 in the NBA finals. He lacks that 'step on your throat killer instinct' many of the all time greats had.

 

[msgkings322]

In the conversation -- sure. Zero chance he is ever looked at as the GOAT though. He is 3-6 in the NBA finals. He lacks that 'step on your throat killer instinct' many of the all time greats had.

There are millions of opinions on this, and a non-zero number of them are that LeBron is either GOAT, co-GOAT, or has a shot at those.

For example, if he wins a title in LA, being the only player ever to lead 3 different franchises to a title, I will probably think of him as co-GOAT. Which makes this possibly aborted season that much more sad.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Kyrie is a horrible teammate. The fact that he asked to be traded is not a knock at all against LeBron. Just look at the track record.

And no, most superstars don’t want to play with LeBron. But as KD said, it is mostly because of the atmosphere and the pressure surrounding him, which is not his fault. Take that away and things might be different.

What KD said is -- Lebron needs to have the ball in his hands and it doesn't make sense for younger stars to have to change to play along side him.
Which is why Leonard wanted to play for the Lakers and instead signed with the Clippers. It is why Paul George literally said his dream was to play for the Lakers and he resigned with OKC instead and then asked to be traded to the Clippers.
It is why to even get another superstar to play alongside him in LA, they had to trade the farm. And even though they had another max slot -- they still couldn't fill it.
I have the utmost respect for Lebron -- I think he is a consummate pro and the ultimate role model off the court.

If the game is on the line -- he isn't even in the top 5 guys I'd Want with the ball in his hands to take the final shot in the NBA right now.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

There are millions of opinions on this, and a non-zero number of them are that LeBron is either GOAT, co-GOAT, or has a shot at those.

For example, if he wins a title in LA, being the only player ever to lead 3 different franchises to a title, I will probably think of him as co-GOAT. Which makes this possibly aborted season that much more sad.

He is the GOAT in one sense -- he is the NBA record holder for NBA final losses.

And as I said earlier -- when the GM's, a few years ago, gave Lebron zero votes for the person they'd want with the ball in his hands and the game on the line -- I think that speaks volumes.

Believe me -- I would love if Lebron became the GOAT -- I have a framed autograph jersey from his rookie year. I just don't see any chance of that happening. Top 5 for sure. But he isn't catching Jordan -- not with 25+ losses in the NBA finals.

 

[msgkings322]

He is the GOAT in one sense -- he is the NBA record holder for NBA final losses.

And as I said earlier -- when the GM's, a few years ago, gave Lebron zero votes for the person they'd want with the ball in his hands and the game on the line -- I think that speaks volumes.

Believe me -- I would love if Lebron became the GOAT -- I have a framed autograph jersey from his rookie year. I just don't see any chance of that happening. Top 5 for sure. But he isn't catching Jordan -- not with 25+ losses in the NBA finals.

To many he already has. You can only speak to your own opinion.

Also Jerry West has him beat on Finals losses. Which is dumb because it's a team sport.

 

[trojanfan12]

Which is why Leonard wanted to play for the Lakers and instead signed with the Clippers. It is why Paul George literally said his dream was to play for the Lakers and he resigned with OKC instead and then asked to be traded to the Clippers.

Actually, neither ever specifically said they wanted to play for the Lakers.

Lebron wasn't the reason that Kawhi decided not to come to the Lakers, Lebron and AD was the reason why. He didn't want to do the "Big 3" thing.

Also, PG asked OKC for a trade because Kawhi asked him to. If OKC had refused to trade PG, or traded him to a team other than the Clippers, Kawhi would have signed with the Lakers.

He didn't want to do the "Big 3" thing, but he'd have done it to avoid being a 1 man show.

 

[trojanfan12]

LA had to trade away a fortune to get AD.

AD requested to be traded to the Lakers because he wanted to play alongside Lebron. He even fired his agent and hired Rich Paul who is Lebron's agent.

The Lakers had to give up a fortune to get him because he's a top 5 player in the league and that's what a player of that caliber costs.

 

[thunderc]

In the conversation -- sure. Zero chance he is ever looked at as the GOAT though. He is 3-6 in the NBA finals. He lacks that 'step on your throat killer instinct' many of the all time greats had.

not even in the conversation honestly, Kareem is ahead of him.

 

[tlance]

not even in the conversation honestly, Kareem is ahead of him.

That is a valid opinion, but at this point I think most would disagree.

So LeBron is most definitely in the conversation.

And in all honesty, I think the conversation boils down to 3 players. Jordan, Kareem and LeBron. Because LeBron is simply a better more athletic version of Magic.

 

[thunderc]

That is a valid opinion, but at this point I think most would disagree.

So LeBron is most definitely in the conversation.

And in all honesty, I think the conversation boils down to 3 players. Jordan, Kareem and LeBron. Because LeBron is simply a better more athletic version of Magic.

I really think Wilt kind of got screwed by the era he was in or he would be in the conversation too.